Brakepipes at the Triumph factory - how were they made?

[Colin Lindsay]

Just curious to know - how were the brakepipes originally made and fitted to cars like the Herald on the production line? Were they made on a jig, preshaped and then just set in place, or were they made individually from a length of ready cut and flared pipe which was bent into shape on each car? Never saw it done so was just wondering.

[RogerH]

Just a guess  but would be so easy to sort on a jig and then install.  This would suit the production line method.

 

Roger

[Pete Lewis]

of the era most would have been pre bent ona wooden jig  often the pipes were twiddles by girls with nimble fingers 

a pre cut to length pipe is popped in on end and the remainder fiddled around stops and forms in appropriate places to make a pre shaped ready to fit pipe

later in the 90s machines were programmed with all the angles and parameters to cut the lengths and whirl the tubes around making the final product

i remember when we first used this the onlookers nearly got wiped out by 12ft of whirling pipe  whilst most of the Dodge air brakes were nylon Renault had not caught up 

and were still bundy .   and the robot machines didnt take prisoners     the loose ends would fly about quite wildly

Pete

[JohnD]

58 minutes ago, Mathew said:

I would be interested in how, the order of the production line for our cars were? Is there anybody on who worked on the lines 

Mathew,

I got interested in this, when I was shown a car that had "The Last Spitfire" written inside the driver's door card.    That was a French, LHD car, but then I found another in the UK, RHD!      Their VINs were lower than the "Last Spitfie" now kept at Gaydon, but then I was contacted by someone who was the line manager at Triumph in the day.   He told me of the occasion when the last Spitfire came off the line.      There was no celebration planned, but he grabbed a photographer and went from his office to see it leave.  Here's the pic the snapper took:

I'm sorry for the quality, but it's a photocopy of the original.  It gives the lie to the many 'official' photographs, of assembled senior managers and line workers with placards, all posed after the event, sometimes many days later   My informant is on the left, the ladies are his office staff, and as you can see, the Last Spitfire is Left Hand Drive!  It's not reversed, the text of the notice on the pillar is not in mirror writing.   The car also is a pale colour, unlike the deep purple Spit at Gaydon.

How can this be?  The Gaydon car is undoubtedly the one with the highest VIN, so how could another come off the line after it did?  Again, my informant explained.     "Quality control" at the Triumph line occurred at certain points, and if there was a problem that car would be dragged off the line, corrected , and then put back on for completion.    Meanwhile the line would continue to roll, cars with higher VINs would pass it by and come off the end before the corrected car.    

The Last Spitfires I have seen had names on them too, signatures, and I have traced one of them.  He was in the Trim Shop, fitting the door cards etc, and could recall that they did this but not the circumstances - thirty years after the evnt, and he was getting on a bit by the time we met.     The two Lasts were less than twenty VINs before the Gaydon car, so the above explanation is entirely reasonable.    Those twenty included cars bound for France, such as the one I saw, and for Germany and the US, so are there Last Spitfires in those countries too?   I have no idea!

JOhn

 

[DVD3500]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

deep purple Spit at Gaydon

I thought it was yellow?

 

[Colin Lindsay]

That's why I was curious about the brake lines; I've never seen the 'in-depth' workings of how the cars were made. There are a few production-line videos that have surfaced, but very general - bodyshells being sprayed, wheels fitted, that sort of thing, plus the famous one of the worker assembling the seats. I'd love to see the brake or clutch pipes being formed, or even how they fitted the diff.

[Pete Lewis]

 

bit more futureistic than  i remeber but it gives you the idea

failing that it was fred bloggs in gloves wandering round a long wooden former with carbuncles and warts and all from years of pipe twiddling 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

http://www.triumphworks.co.uk/the-last-car-at-canley/

This article shows the 'last' Spitfire as in the photo above, then another going along the production line a few days later...

I think this article below is slightly mixed up:

 

[JohnD]

I was wrong!  The Gaydon car is yellow.  But it's RHD! 

The article quoted is just nonsense! "Hardtop Spitfire"???  A Spitfire with a hardtop - but it doesn't.

The article linked to has all the posed pictures taken later long after the Last Spitfire was gone.  Including that sad pic of a Spitfire, posed all alone in the stripped out trim shop.  

For those asking about the order of assembly, have you heard of the "Rocket Range"?   Chassis and bodies were partly assembled, and then brought together by an overhead line that dropped each onto the corresponding chassis.  

John

 

[Colin Lindsay]

11 hours ago, JohnD said:

For those asking about the order of assembly, have you heard of the "Rocket Range"?   Chassis and bodies were partly assembled, and then brought together by an overhead line that dropped each onto the corresponding chassis.  

John

 

Not heard, but fill us in! I have very few details of the actual production line; some of the main procedures are known but very little on the smaller assemblies and procedures.

[JohnD]

I wasn't there, I'm not a historian of Canley, and you need to do your own research!

Start here? https://www.facebook.com/SpottedCovCity/photos/triumph-herald-s-models-in-the-rocket-range-of-the-new-assembly-hall-at-canley-s/2738565809536522/

That page includes a link to a register of ex-Triumph employees, which looks interesting.  Please tell us what you find!

JOhn

[Dick Twitchen]

http://www.triumphworks.co.uk/heralds-in-the-new-assembly-hall/#more-459

[Colin Lindsay]

7 hours ago, JohnD said:

I wasn't there, I'm not a historian of Canley, and you need to do your own research!

Awwww come on, you don't dangle a snippet like that then leave us in the lurch...

Ok so I'll read up on it but it'll maybe take more than one coffee.

 

[JohnD]

Careful, Colin!  This historical research is as addictive as old cars!    I'm doing my own house's history, and because of that a neighbour's.   Both fascinating.  Turned up enough 'social history' for a whole series of 'Eastenders'!

[Colin Lindsay]

You know me! Detective work, such as rare car parts, appeals to my sense of humour. I love the challenge.

My own house is on Old Mill Road but I've no idea where the old mill used to be.

[JohnD]

Here's a pic, that turned up on Facebook

[JohnD]

This video shows fully (?) assembled bodies being moved about, prior to being dropped onto the assmbeld chassis:

 

[JohnD]

I can't resist!   Lots of pics here: https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/history/gallery/triumph-standard-works-canley-coventry-12585550 including that famous one of the lonely 'last Spitfie' in the stripped out trim shop.     That it is posed is obvious - it's fully assembled, body to chassis, when cars went through the trim shop before they went down the Rocket Range.    But as for the gearbox cover on top of the engine???

BMIHT has an enormous collection od pics, includng this one, from the 50s of that assembly method on Vanguards:

 http://www.motorgraphs.com/content/thumbnails/01565/156449-zoom.jpg

See: http://www.motorgraphs.com/photos/marque/triumph/page-7.aspx

Here's another, showing saloons, where despite monocoque construction the method persisted:

http://www.motorgraphs.com/content/thumbnails/01566/156462-mainImage.jpg

 

[JohnD]

Mathew,

While there are many pictures of pounds full of one model, I think car production has always been mixed, of similar models at least, but they need enormous space for storage.        Certainly the mechanical similarity of the small chassis Triumphs made mixed lines simple, but large stocks of completed cars were always a sign of bad times.   

You don't say what foods you deal with, but a box of packets of something can be palleted and stacked yea-high, so warehousing isn't such a problem.  

The 'thrust' of lean car assembly has long been 'just in time', both of components and the finished product, ensuring minimal inventory.    Interesting that food production isn't like that.  Perhaps a kamban system is needed, to align inventory with consumption?

JOhn

[Pete Lewis]

on mixed model assy lines its common to have a planned model mix to even out the operators work loads 

on trucks you have to as the  vast array of variants and work involved is horrendously variable  so a mixed up line up is quite normal 

and its production  costs little difference if its a spitfire or a  2500 PI  but the mark up of the finished car and all the aftermarket  can charge a lot more for a premium  car than a bog std.  

pete

 

[thescrapman]

On 06/10/2021 at 21:43, JohnD said:

I was wrong!  The Gaydon car is yellow.  But it's RHD! 

The article quoted is just nonsense! "Hardtop Spitfire"???  A Spitfire with a hardtop - but it doesn't 

John

 

I beleive you could order a Spitfire with just a hardtop, save a few quid on not having a hood and frame.

there are different part numbers for some fittings that are specific to hardtop only cars

[NonMember]

12 minutes ago, thescrapman said:

I beleive you could order a Spitfire with just a hardtop, save a few quid on not having a hood and frame.

That's correct. Slightly bizarrely, for some years the catalogue listed two versions of the Spitfire - a convertible, for which you could order a hard top as an optional extra, or a coupe, for which you could order a soft top as an optional extra. More bizarrely, the total price was different between the two apparently identical "optioned up" versions.