The Spitfire that just needed a tidy up...

[Josef]

37 minutes ago, Piglet said:

I have never seen a sump bolt like that before!

Alex

I should’ve kept it for Christmas and put fairy lights on it

[Josef]

New clutch fitted. The old one was in a real state, the diaphragm springs are nearly worn through and the friction plate down to the rivets. Got pretty lucky it didn’t give out on me when I was driving the car for the few months after I bought it I expect! I’ve also measured up all the tolerances on the new gearbox parts, everything should be ready to go once the new second gear arrives. 
 

On a side not, am I being dumb and failing to find the torque specs in the factory WSM? I have the early Spit/Herald/Vitesse club reprint. The clutch fitting instructions just said to tighten the six bolts to ‘the correct torque’. I found 20ft-lbs online and went with that. Couldn’t find a spec in the Haynes Herald manual or Autodata Spitfire one either.

[alan.gilbert_6384]

Hi Josef, ROM says 22, hope this helps

[alan.gilbert_6384]

Just out of interest how many miles has your old one done ? Asking because mine now has 88,888 and I thinks it's still original. 

[Josef]

3 hours ago, alan.gilbert_6384 said:

Just out of interest how many miles has your old one done ? Asking because mine now has 88,888 and I thinks it's still original. 

Well, the gearbox I’ve just removed has a Herald serial number so is not the original, and the car has done 18,000 miles since the oldest MoT I have from 1997. I’m pretty certain the clutch has not been touched since before 97, and the car either went round the clock or had a zeroed speedo installed (the latter is more likely I think given it was “restored” around that time too) about then. Which is all a pretty long winded way of saying I don’t know how old the clutch is in age or mileage  But it’s got to have done a fair few miles for the release bearing to have nearly worn through the diaphragm springs as it has. 

[Josef]

I kept forgetting to take photos as I went, but the gearbox is coming together nicely. I did have an interlude while I stripped one of the three synchro boxes to scavenge an oil thrower and hope for a better sized thrust washer for the outer side of the bearing on the mainshaft (successfully, thankfully, I didn’t want to buy any more bits!)

[Josef]

More gearbox progress this morning. Overdrive, bell housing and top cover on. I had to make one gasket as I’d managed to fail to buy that too, but that is what I keep some gasket paper handy for! The woodruff key for the overdrive oil pump drive was desperate to be free and I had to recapture it several times before managing to get it fitted. 
 

Note the sophisticated device to prevent reverse engaging when the gearbox is on its end.

[AlanT]

Looking good! 

[Pete Lewis]

Hi  i dont see the anti rattle circlip fitted to the groove in the mainshaft ????

Spring Sleeve - D Type O/Drive - 513223 | Rimmer Bros

 

Pete

 

[Josef]

6 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

Hi  i dont see the anti rattle circlip fitted to the groove in the mainshaft ????

Spring Sleeve - D Type O/Drive - 513223 | Rimmer Bros

 

Pete

 

Thanks Pete, you’re right, but I did spot that I’d missed that before getting the overdrive fully on so it is now fitted!

[Pete Lewis]

its quite important little clip   glad you had one  many are missing 

same as finding the tooth etched marks on the planets  simple but need s a bit of research 

I would like a £ for the OD where the woodruf key is missing or  mullered 

very reliable units with a few quirks   Ha 

if you set the solenoid stroke you can add a turn to the adjuster as wear can make the setting a bit lazy it only lifts the valve needle of its seat 

and check the small hole down the needle  is clear it can get restricted being so small 

Pete

[Josef]

Yesterday evening I tried to start fitting the gear change bushes. Managed to mangle the one that goes just where the shift mechanism enters the gearbox immediately… So I decided to make some brass top hats to go there instead, which has worked out OK I think. The kit was from Canleys and the cup washer arrangement that holds the larger spring down on the gear lever was a three part metal set, no worrying burrs or similar.

On the subject of the overdrive, I’ve actually not touched it. This is the one that came off the car, it was working, I’ve got a receipt for a professional rebuild not too long ago, and it looked pristine inside. So I removed it from the old gearbox, left it under the bench in a plastic bag for a week, and put it straight back on. By the date stamp it might even be the one the car was supplied with, which makes it a bit of a rarity on this Spitfire!

[Pete Lewis]

your brass ones look good  you may create a little bit of gear lever sizzle which is why they used plastics in odd places

but yours wont degrade ever 

please the canley kit doesnt have the razor edges of the many 

Dave does listen  and does stuff that works as they use it themselves   always a good supplier as far as i  have found 

 

[Josef]

Yeah I figured there’d be some difference with brass vs softer plastics, but it’s all an experiment! That pivot point does need a tiny bit of up/down movement to go with the main left/right (most pronounced for the reverse shift when the gear lever is pushed down). There’s enough play with these brass bushings to allow that though. So we’ll see how they perform. 

[Piglet]

Gotta love a lathe!

Alex

[Josef]

The gearbox is back in, still needs oil, speedo cable and the extension and overdrive inhibitor fitting properly. Those cylindrical sleeve bits that go inside the release bearing carrier to stop the pivot pin dropping out are a pain! I destroyed the new one (all £6 worth of it…) as it slipped through and caught one too many times while fitting the pivot pin, and had to scavenge a used one. Also got the valve clearances checked and fitted the freshly painted rocker cover. 
 

I talked myself out of buying an alloy bellhousing as I’m not racing, so the weight saving is unlikely to make a difference I’ll be able to notice. If I have to remove the box again I think I might buy one to make refitting easier though! The extra weight of the overdrive vs the non O/D one I just put in the Herald was noticeable when I was scrabbling in the footwell and under the car trying to get the thing in position. 

[NonMember]

3 hours ago, Josef said:

I talked myself out of buying an alloy bellhousing as I’m not racing, so the weight saving is unlikely to make a difference I’ll be able to notice. If I have to remove the box again I think I might buy one to make refitting easier though!

I took the gearbox out of my GT6 today (with the help of a friend) and I can assure you the alloy bellhousing doesn't make enough difference to be worth it.

Also, while the weight of the overdrive does make a difference, the extra space in a Herald makes more. It's a while since I swapped the gearbox in a Vitesse but I distinctly remember thinking at the time how much easier it was than the GT6.

😀

[Pete Lewis]

weight  on the 6cyl you have the anchor weight of the engine

on 4cyl you have the significant weight of that cast bell housing 

was this a balancing act by triumph    Ha !!

the early 948 alloy case was known to suffer cracks  probably why  the cast one evolved 

but at around £300 you need a good wallet to support an alloy desire 

Pete

[Josef]

I feel like you need a good wallet to support a Spitfire full stop… Or at least one that needed quite so many new panels as mine did!

Anyway, got everything essential back together and I’ve done about 2 miles up and down our private road/drive. The gearbox worked OK, felt stiff on shift, and was reluctant to downshift from third to second though. However, that seemed to have freed by the second run up and down. So I’m not going to worry just yet, but will be keeping an eye on it. 

Drained the oil given the engine was hot, and as I’ve no idea when it was last changed (possibly last done by the PO…) There’s signs of water, but then it’s not been run to temperature since August 2020 time so, again, not going to worry immediately!

[Josef]

Did a test fit of the tunnel and cut an access hatch. After faffing around finding the coping saw, and then finding the blades for it, I changed to a Stanley knife and ruler half way through as it was easier! Interestingly the round hole I cut first was over the location of a circle labelled ‘oil’ cast into the cover. It might’ve just about been possible to do an oil top up through it, if you had a long, magnetic key for the filler plug, decided a larger hole was the better plan though!

[Peter Truman]

2 hours ago, Josef said:

It might’ve just about been possible to do an oil top up through it, if you had a long, magnetic key for the filler plug, decided a larger hole was the better plan though!

 

Try using the 1/2in drive end of an socket extension bar it holds the sq of the filler plug and lets you withdraw and refit the filler plug without loosing it. Took me 50 years to learn that!

but it's still messy trying to clean up the inevitable overfill runs down the side of the box.

[alan.gilbert_6384]

I used to do 1/2 in drive thing, but it was a bit sloppy on my plug when it came to reinserting it, I now use a socket instead, think it might be 1/2 in can’t remember the exact size, but you get the idea, holds the plug square and tight so you can insert it easily.

[NonMember]

Surely the square head on the filler plug (or drain plug / sump plug) is 7/16", so the 1/2" socket thing is way too sloppy. A 1/2" double-hex socket will work on a new 7/16" square head but it's not a great fit and will graunch it if you need any significant torque.

[Peter Truman]

Never had a problem using extension sq to re insert the filler plug, could use a bit of blue tack to hold filler plug. 
My filler plugs are relatively new and never had a file on them.

[wimpus]

14 hours ago, Josef said:

Did a test fit of the tunnel and cut an access hatch. After faffing around finding the coping saw, and then finding the blades for it, I changed to a Stanley knife and ruler half way through as it was easier! Interestingly the round hole I cut first was over the location of a circle labelled ‘oil’ cast into the cover. It might’ve just about been possible to do an oil top up through it, if you had a long, magnetic key for the filler plug, decided a larger hole was the better plan though!

You could also make a big access panel on the other side to change the slave.

I've got this and very handy.

As mine is LHD i can even bleed it on my own easy.