Vitesse saloon door seals

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Iain T said:

So the CBS leaf seal is correct and the bubble incorrect?

The early cars certainly were supplied with the single sided lip seal, but my current Herald has a bubble seal fitted and the doors close to good gaps, so I don't know what's correct or incorrect (as opposed to original / non-original), only what works. Some bubble seals can be too thick, or made from heavy rubber and so don't compress as well as others, while some take a while to settle, but afterwards work very well. On some tubs that I've tried as a test, the lip seal barely touches the door so is only intended as a light seal, there's nothing to compress it against the door as the bubble seal does, thereby becoming more watertight. I'd ideally like a thinner profile bubble seal, not near that stage yet with the restorations, but I'll be on the lookout for a good Goldilocks seal - not too thick, not too light, just right -that won't affect the door shuts.

[trigolf]

I remember years ago replacing the door aperture seals on my Herald. The supplier assured me that they were correct. They were a bubble section with the furflex bit attached. They were useless - too thick. I couldn't shut the doors without slamming them so hard I was scared the windows would break!

I think I tracked down the original style aperture seals many years ago - new old stock. They don't have a bubble section, but have a flexible lip attached which compresses more easily- see pics. I have a vague memory of someone saying that Triumph 2000 Mk 1 seals were the same? I'm not aware that any supplier currently stocks the exact type anymore.

Gav

 

 

[Iain T]

20 minutes ago, trigolf said:

They were useless - too thick. I couldn't shut the doors without slamming them so hard I was scared the windows would break

That's why the dealer changed the seals, when I first viewed the car I could hardly close the door! The dealer restores Sunbeam Alpines and probably used some of his stock. 

[Pete Lewis]

nothing like the 2000 saloon seals they attach by a Tee section that fits in a welded on C section channel on the door carcass

Pete

 

[Pete Lewis]

not that easy to do this neatly but if you have a bubble seal you can witha sharp blade cut the bubble tube to make it a single flip 

the foam tube can cut a bit ragged but you will be able to shut the door 

Im sure C O baines do a knock on seal with a single flip but ive not looked  

and as for 2000/2500   many suppliers also seal a completely useless that wont fit and is as bad as the small chassis car seal problems 

its easy to get this right but too many sell a "well it resembles"  bu**er all and not cheap just  to find you have a pup 

Pete

[daverclasper]

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

for a good Goldilocks seal - not too thick, not too light, just right -that won't affect the door shuts.

Any more info on those Colin? 

[Colin Lindsay]

1 minute ago, daverclasper said:

Any more info on those Colin? 

That's Goldilocks as in the story, not a brand name - whichever is just right...

I'll have to try a bit of measuring to see what the optimum is. It may just end up trial and error but some of the bubble seal is smaller than others, so if I can find one that seals well but with insufficient force to disrupt the door fit, I'll go for that.

The DX 98 and DX 78 profiles in the Baines link seem to have different widths, I just need to work out which I can get away with.

https://coh-baines.co.uk/collections/rubber-profiles?page=2

[Paul H]

This is the cobains spec I used on my Vitesse saloon . enough for both doors 

Paul

Order #136971] (25th March 2021)

Product	Quantity	Price
Subtotal:		£28.61
Shipping:		£6.00 (incl. VAT) via Table Rate Orders under 2kg
Payment method:		Credit Card
Total:		£34.61 (includes £5.77 20% VAT)
DX 73 - Composite self grip type draught excluder	8	£28.61

[Colin Lindsay]

DX73 is probably the correct flap / lip seal, but I wonder what the spec is for a bubble seal if anyone wanted to try one? There are some very interesting profiles; I might try for a few samples.

[Iain T]

34 minutes ago, Paul H said:

This is the cobains spec I used on my Vitesse saloon . enough for both doors 

At 22mm it's a lot wider than the dx78 or 98 and more flexible than a bubble type. It looks a good fit and will seal a bigger gap. Do the doors close without having to slam them? 

DX100 also looks promising. 

Iain 

[Colin Lindsay]

25 minutes ago, Iain T said:

DX100 also looks promising. 

Iain 

Spotted that one! We just need someone to try it, then we'll know for sure.

[Iain T]

17 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Spotted that one! We just need someone to try it, then we'll know for sure.

I'll phone Baines to see if I can get any further info as to compression characteristics. 

Iain 

[Paul H]

1 hour ago, Iain T said:

At 22mm it's a lot wider than the dx78 or 98 and more flexible than a bubble type. It looks a good fit and will seal a bigger gap. Do the doors close without having to slam them? 

DX100 also looks promising. 

Iain 

Significant improvement on the bubble type and reduced the body tub spread . Less effort to close the doors 

Paul

[daverclasper]

On 26/02/2022 at 17:17, Colin Lindsay said:

That's Goldilocks as in the story, not a brand name - whichever is just right...

 

Ahh, obvious, now you say 🙂

[daverclasper]

22 hours ago, Iain T said:

I'll phone Baines to see if I can get any further info as to compression characteristics. 

From their website, it appears they manufacture rubber parts. Surely not all?, would take a lot of tooling I assume? 

[Pete Lewis]

baines make every conceivable rubber section you can ever want 

 i have found most helpful they will send you samples of extrusions  free in the post 

Pete

[Iain T]

3 hours ago, daverclasper said:

From their website, it appears they manufacture rubber parts. Surely not all?, would take a lot of tooling I assume? 

Possibly all, they are extruders and make custom parts. Extrusion tools for these small parts are not huge. 

Iain 

[Gary Flinn]

The correct profile Door seals are 'J' Shaped, originals had furflex were they clipped on to to match the interior of the car on the 13/60's and Mk2 Vitesses (Black, Shadow Blue, Matador Red or Light Tan)

Bill at Rarebits for Classics used to supply very similar profile seals but I don't believe he's trading these days?

The additional 'P' Shaped seal was I believe only fitted on the later 13/60 & Mk2 Vitesse's, it was glued to the 'A' Post and dropped down to just above the Door Light Switch (Later Spitfires, Tr5's, Tr6's and Stags had a similar seal)

On the Saloon this 'P' Seal ran for around 4" or so over the top of the Quarterlight too.

Regards

Gary 

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Gary Flinn said:

The correct profile Door seals are 'J' Shaped, originals had furflex were they clipped on to to match the interior of the car on the 13/60's and Mk2 Vitesses (Black, Shadow Blue, Matador Red or Light Tan)

Bill at Rarebits for Classics used to supply very similar profile seals but I don't believe he's trading these days?

The additional 'P' Shaped seal was I believe only fitted on the later 13/60 & Mk2 Vitesse's, it was glued to the 'A' Post and dropped down to just above the Door Light Switch (Later Spitfires, Tr5's, Tr6's and Stags had a similar seal)

On the Saloon this 'P' Seal ran for around 4" or so over the top of the Quarterlight too.

Regards

Gary 

I have Bill's seals, unused and waiting for my other bodywork to finish; if you like I'll photograph / measure for comparison with what's currently available?

[Iain T]

Taken a look at my door seals, I do in fact have DX73 type seal round all the aperture apart from the roof which is a bubble type. The seal is about 21mm deep and seems to seal around most of the door. I think I can get the drop glass to seal at the top by using a deeper bubble. 

You can see how the drivers quarter light angles out but the bloomin latch and window handles are resisting my attempts to get them off! I can see a hole in the handles but I need to possibly get more aggressive pushing the dowel out. Is it sprung loaded like the dash light pull knob shaft? 

[Colin Lindsay]

No, it's just a pin slightly pointed at one end - but make sure a PO hasn't used a nail and the head means it will only push out in one direction. You need to really push the plastic escutcheon in, otherwise although you can see one side the other may  still be pushing against the plastic, then a small screwdriver will push the dowel through and out.

[NonMember]

7 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

No, it's just a pin slightly pointed at one end - but make sure a PO hasn't used a nail and the head means it will only push out in one direction

The small taper at one end - intended to make them easier to insert - can also mean they will only easily push out in one direction, because of years of hardened crud resisting your efforts the other way. So it's worth trying the other direction if it seems reluctant.

[Iain T]

18 minutes ago, NonMember said:

The small taper at one end - intended to make them easier to insert - can also mean they will only easily push out in one direction

So I assume the pin needs a tap from underneath and pops out the top? 

I can envisage the pin popping out into a black hole never to be seen again! 

Iain 

[Colin Lindsay]

14 minutes ago, Iain T said:

I can envisage the pin popping out into a black hole never to be seen again! 

Iain 

Commonly called the garage floor or driveway. I actually found one under the carpet of my current Herald, no doubt the PO is still wondering where it went.

They'll pop out in any direction, especially the window winder which you can rotate to the easiest direction. If there is one...

[Pete Lewis]

these pins have had more owners rumaging around the grass and tarmac than any other part 

theybwere used by many makers its not triumph specific

the problem with using a headed pin of sorts will jam and make the escutcheon rotate and wear the vynil on the door cards 

thats why its hidden til you drop it 

Pete