Dashboard Re-Veneer

[Phil C]

Just finished re-veneering the dash on my Mk2 Vitesse and thought I would share my experience for anyone else considering doing the same.

It goes without saying, but photograph everything as you dismantle the dash to ensure it all goes back in the same place!

 

As can be seen the starting point was not too pretty but using advice gleaned from the forum I used a heat gun to carefully remove the old lacquer.

Once removed I could better inspect the existing veneer condition which was in a very poor state with cracks, chips and de-lamination. There were additional holes for accessories fitted by the PO. It was at this stage I decided to replace it.

Some advice is to remove old veneer by sanding but mine was so dry and brittle I found it came off with a little gentle scraping. This exposed the plywood dash which had also de-laminated in places with parts of the top layer broken off. I was told that, if possible, retain the original dash as replacements can cause all sorts of later fitting issues. This makes a lot of sense given the quality of many replacement parts these days!!

I therefore used wood filler to level up the plywood face. Care is needed when sanding the filler to ensure you do not remove any of the surrounding wood and everything remains flat.

I did not want to re-veneer the door cappings as they are not exactly flat which may have caused difficulties in gluing on the new veneer and their condition was not too bad. I therefore simply sanded these down and applied lacquer to establish the grain/colour to get for the dash to match. The best way would be to take a sample along to the veneer shop but I am nowhere near so had to guess from pictures online. Straight Grained American Walnut has been suggested as the original used by Triumph but this did appear too grey. In the end I settled for Red Mahogany, the grain was not a good match but the colour was.

 I used the Veneer Hub ( https://www.thewoodveneerhub.co.uk ) and bought plain veneer at around £15/sheet (enough to do two dashboards). You can get more expensive iron-on options etc.

This is the plywood following filling and sanding with the Veneer ready to apply

I used standard waterproof wood glue and applied it to the dash, paying particular attention to the edges.

 

Then carefully laid the dash on to the veneer and covered the whole thing with a polythene sheet to avoid sticking.

 

Then clamped between two 25mm MDF planks. Use as many clamps as you can!

 

I left this for about 4 hours and then carefully opened it to check if any glue had weeped through the veneer. It had so I used a wet cloth to remove it. I then clamped it back together and left it overnight. This stage is not essential as the excess glue can be removed later by sanding once fully set but can be more difficult.

Once fully dry (24hrs) I removed the clamps again and very carefully trimmed off the excess veneer and cut out the instrument/switch apertures. I used a craft knife with a curved blade which I changed frequently. Particular care had to be taken with the glove box aperture because ideally you want to use this veneer to cover the door and get a nice match of grain across the dash. Same goes for the switch panel but here you have more room for error as the veneer required is much smaller than the aperture.

Once done the edges were all sanded smooth and I sanded the face with 1200 grade.

Here is the veneered dash components ready for lacquer. Note the matching door veneer grain 😎

I decided to use a cellulose lacquer in order that I might achieve a reasonably glossy finish. It also has the advantage of reduced drying time. I applied 5 coats of lacquer by brush, lightly sanding between each, building up a nice thick covering. (Note: if you have used any kind of wood stain don't use a solvent based finish as this will dissolve the stain and create a blotchy colour. With stains best use a water based finish.)

I left the lacquer for a week to fully go off before trying to polish it.

I used my DA with 1500 grade to flat back all the lacquer t a matt finish (a block will do but will be much harder). I then repeated with 3000 grade (3M Trizact) before using a cutting compound by hand. To finish off I simply polished it.

I am very pleased with the result.

The total costs were the Veneer (£15), wood filler (£8) and the Lacquer (£13). Everything else I had in stock from painting the body last year.

The cheapest quote I got was £500 (dash + cappings) so I am quite chuffed.

 

 

 

 

 

[Josef]

I’m not convinced that the dashes were ever American walnut either. I did ask the question of Colin Heary (who I think is on here on occasion?) who makes and veneers dashboards, he identified the original veneer as teak. That definitely rings truer to me colour wise.

Anyway, your finish looks fantastic!

[Gary Flinn]

That's a great job, the dash looks factory fresh😊

In answer to Josef's query, all the literature I've ever read and the specialists I've talked to state the Vitesse & Herald dashes where American Walnut veneer?

I had the Dash and capping's on my car refurbished by the Specialists Chapman & Cliff and that's what thy told me and used on my car

There is a post on the TR Register website about dash veneers, I think stating the TR5 & 6 Dashes where often described as Teak

https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/80554-original-style-dashboard/&do=findComment&comment=766003 

Gary

 

  

[ed.h]

Period ads say walnut.  At least some window stickers said walnut.

Teak is a lot more expensive than walnut.

They look like walnut to me, though I suspect they went through some process to suppress the grain a bit to get more unifomity.

Ed

[PeteH]

I`ve heard it reffered to as "Burr Walnut".?. But for my money too dark with a different grain stucture.

Viz: Burr Walnut.

I think that is what Jaguar. used on the old Mk2`s?

Pete.

[Josef]

Gary’s dash there absolutely looks like walnut. My Herald ones (one original, unrefurbished but needing it, one relaquered over original veneer) just look the wrong colour. They don’t have that red-brown tint, they’re much yellower. Some of that could be the laquer breaking down and staining the veneer I suppose. The laquer I removed was definitely yellowed. I did my radio box in American walnut and sat next to the dash it doesn’t look like the same wood. 
Burr walnut but the way comes from bits of the tree where there’s lots of branch growth, or roots, or something to disrupt the regular growth. So you get patterns in the grain rather than it being pretty straight as in the dash photos in this thread. 

[Josef]

Oh, I see that TR thread does state the American walnut yellows with age. Guess I’m thinking too much of the few things I have made from English walnut (great storm of 87 vintage) which have definitely darkened as they age. 

[ed.h]

Burr (burl in the US) is a specialty wood product that typically comes from tree crotches, roots, or areas with some kind of damage.  It is relatively rare compared to ordinary wood, so it is more expensive than non-burr wood of the same species.  In veneers, it can be very fragile, sometimes with voids, that can make it more difficult to work with.

Only pretty high-end cars typically came with true burl in the interiors.

Ed

[NonMember]

12 hours ago, PeteH said:

I`ve heard it reffered to as "Burr Walnut".?.

No, definitely not. As others have said, burr is expensive. Triumph used "crown cut" American walnut. People who refer to it as "burr walnut" are usually just making an incorrect auto-association of two words merely because they've often heard them together.

[ed.h]

To confuse things more, the Burr Oak tree is very common in the central part of the US.  It is a subspecies of White Oaks, and has nothing to do with burr or burl type grain.

Ed

[Colin Lindsay]

There's another thread running on this that names the veneer as American Walnut; some companies offer the option of reveneering as 'original factory finish' or else 'Burr Walnut' so Burr wasn't original.

 

[Mjit]

Having redone both my Spitfire and 2500 I'd say it's definitely American Walnut - straight not burr (which is good as it's cheaper and significantly easier to work with!).  The colour of a brand new dash generally will be a lot lighter than any 50 year old panels.  Partly this will be down to the tree it came from (and why you ideally want to buy multiple sheets from the same cut if you need more than 1 sheet) but also I'm guessing the vaneer/laquer changes colour as it gets exposed to UV sunlight (the "That looks WAY too light" dash in my outdoor 2500 is now much darker than it started while the garaged Spitfire's still very light).

Regarding the gloss finish, first off it's your dash in your car so 100% up to you what finish you have but if you decided there's too much reflection and want the original semi-matt finish you just need to 'polish' it using "0000" wire wool lubricated with LOTS of wax wood polish.

[PeteH]

26 minutes ago, NonMember said:

No, definitely not. As others have said, burr is expensive. Triumph used "crown cut" American walnut. People who refer to it as "burr walnut" are usually just making an incorrect auto-association of two words merely because they've often heard them together.

The photo is of Genuine Burr Walnut. Which as I said, for my money, too dark and with a totally different grain structure to that used on my 13/60, that which is a much lighter and more open grain. Ed, is correct, in that the Burr (burl) walnut is found more often in very high end Motors. Jaguar in the 50`s/60`s, and the likes of Rolls where more likely cadidates. The cost factor allone would be a dis-incentive!.

[rlubikey]

22 hours ago, Phil C said:

The total costs were the Veneer (£15), wood filler (£8) and the Lacquer (£13). Everything else I had in stock from painting the body last year.

And your feeling of satisfaction at a great finish on your dash - PRICELESS!

Cheers, Richard

PS: +1 for American Walnut.

[Colin Lindsay]

13 hours ago, ed.h said:

Burr (burl in the US) is a specialty wood product that typically comes from tree crotches

Ed

You mean like this one? As close to a crotch as I've ever seen.

[Handmade_by_Heary]

On 06/07/2022 at 16:00, Josef said:

I’m not convinced that the dashes were ever American walnut either. I did ask the question of Colin Heary (who I think is on here on occasion?) who makes and veneers dashboards, he identified the original veneer as teak. That definitely rings truer to me colour wise.

Anyway, your finish looks fantastic!

Hi, that was most likely me (Peter Heary), I have to admit in my naivety some time back I did believe it was teak that was used on some dashes but after encountering, refinishing and stripping back a number of original dashes and wood panels they have all been walnut of various cuts.  As has been mentioned previously UV damage plays a major factor in how we view wood trim with a distance of 40+ years from when it was fitted, clear coats used at the time didnt have UV inhibitors and thus over time the wood bleached while the clear took on a yellowish/golen tint and became cloudy.  What we are left with is a wood panel that resembles teak but is in fact walnut.   

Just as an example see the images below of a 2500 original but unused dash panel set still in the rap and thus not exposed to UV damage and opposed to a fitted dash panel and what you would generally expect from a dash subject to years of use and abuse; you'd be forgiven for thinking teak was indeed used.

[Handmade_by_Heary]

On 06/07/2022 at 15:37, Phil C said:

Just finished re-veneering the dash on my Mk2 Vitesse and thought I would share my experience for anyone else considering doing the same.

It goes without saying, but photograph everything as you dismantle the dash to ensure it all goes back in the same place!

 

As can be seen the starting point was not too pretty but using advice gleaned from the forum I used a heat gun to carefully remove the old lacquer.

Once removed I could better inspect the existing veneer condition which was in a very poor state with cracks, chips and de-lamination. There were additional holes for accessories fitted by the PO. It was at this stage I decided to replace it.

Some advice is to remove old veneer by sanding but mine was so dry and brittle I found it came off with a little gentle scraping. This exposed the plywood dash which had also de-laminated in places with parts of the top layer broken off. I was told that, if possible, retain the original dash as replacements can cause all sorts of later fitting issues. This makes a lot of sense given the quality of many replacement parts these days!!

I therefore used wood filler to level up the plywood face. Care is needed when sanding the filler to ensure you do not remove any of the surrounding wood and everything remains flat.

I did not want to re-veneer the door cappings as they are not exactly flat which may have caused difficulties in gluing on the new veneer and their condition was not too bad. I therefore simply sanded these down and applied lacquer to establish the grain/colour to get for the dash to match. The best way would be to take a sample along to the veneer shop but I am nowhere near so had to guess from pictures online. Straight Grained American Walnut has been suggested as the original used by Triumph but this did appear too grey. In the end I settled for Red Mahogany, the grain was not a good match but the colour was.

 I used the Veneer Hub ( https://www.thewoodveneerhub.co.uk ) and bought plain veneer at around £15/sheet (enough to do two dashboards). You can get more expensive iron-on options etc.

This is the plywood following filling and sanding with the Veneer ready to apply

I used standard waterproof wood glue and applied it to the dash, paying particular attention to the edges.

 

Then carefully laid the dash on to the veneer and covered the whole thing with a polythene sheet to avoid sticking.

 

Then clamped between two 25mm MDF planks. Use as many clamps as you can!

 

I left this for about 4 hours and then carefully opened it to check if any glue had weeped through the veneer. It had so I used a wet cloth to remove it. I then clamped it back together and left it overnight. This stage is not essential as the excess glue can be removed later by sanding once fully set but can be more difficult.

Once fully dry (24hrs) I removed the clamps again and very carefully trimmed off the excess veneer and cut out the instrument/switch apertures. I used a craft knife with a curved blade which I changed frequently. Particular care had to be taken with the glove box aperture because ideally you want to use this veneer to cover the door and get a nice match of grain across the dash. Same goes for the switch panel but here you have more room for error as the veneer required is much smaller than the aperture.

Once done the edges were all sanded smooth and I sanded the face with 1200 grade.

Here is the veneered dash components ready for lacquer. Note the matching door veneer grain 😎

I decided to use a cellulose lacquer in order that I might achieve a reasonably glossy finish. It also has the advantage of reduced drying time. I applied 5 coats of lacquer by brush, lightly sanding between each, building up a nice thick covering. (Note: if you have used any kind of wood stain don't use a solvent based finish as this will dissolve the stain and create a blotchy colour. With stains best use a water based finish.)

I left the lacquer for a week to fully go off before trying to polish it.

I used my DA with 1500 grade to flat back all the lacquer t a matt finish (a block will do but will be much harder). I then repeated with 3000 grade (3M Trizact) before using a cutting compound by hand. To finish off I simply polished it.

I am very pleased with the result.

The total costs were the Veneer (£15), wood filler (£8) and the Lacquer (£13). Everything else I had in stock from painting the body last year.

The cheapest quote I got was £500 (dash + cappings) so I am quite chuffed.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Phil, 

Fantastic work, well done!! You must be well chuffed with your work, as you should be! The satisfaction of looking at that once fitted and knowing you did it is priceless.  The color of the finish came up really nice too, it has a slightly mellowed look to it that will sit with the car really nice.

If the cheapest you were quoted for a refinish on the dash and caps was £500 then I seriously need to raise my prices! 😮 

[Josef]

3 hours ago, Handmade_by_Heary said:

Hi, that was most likely me (Peter Heary), I have to admit in my naivety some time back I did believe it was teak that was used on some dashes but after encountering, refinishing and stripping back a number of original dashes and wood panels they have all been walnut of various cuts.  As has been mentioned previously UV damage plays a major factor in how we view wood trim with a distance of 40+ years from when it was fitted, clear coats used at the time didnt have UV inhibitors and thus over time the wood bleached while the clear took on a yellowish/golen tint and became cloudy.  What we are left with is a wood panel that resembles teak but is in fact walnut.   

Just as an example see the images below of a 2500 original but unused dash panel set still in the rap and thus not exposed to UV damage and opposed to a fitted dash panel and what you would generally expect from a dash subject to years of use and abuse; you'd be forgiven for thinking teak was indeed used.

Sorry Peter, don’t know how I managed to rename you! Nice to have an update/confirmation from your professional eyes too

[Paul Amey]

On 06/07/2022 at 15:37, Phil C said:

Just finished re-veneering the dash on my Mk2 Vitesse and thought I would share my experience for anyone else considering doing the same.

It goes without saying, but photograph everything as you dismantle the dash to ensure it all goes back in the same place!

 

As can be seen the starting point was not too pretty but using advice gleaned from the forum I used a heat gun to carefully remove the old lacquer.

Once removed I could better inspect the existing veneer condition which was in a very poor state with cracks, chips and de-lamination. There were additional holes for accessories fitted by the PO. It was at this stage I decided to replace it.

Some advice is to remove old veneer by sanding but mine was so dry and brittle I found it came off with a little gentle scraping. This exposed the plywood dash which had also de-laminated in places with parts of the top layer broken off. I was told that, if possible, retain the original dash as replacements can cause all sorts of later fitting issues. This makes a lot of sense given the quality of many replacement parts these days!!

I therefore used wood filler to level up the plywood face. Care is needed when sanding the filler to ensure you do not remove any of the surrounding wood and everything remains flat.

I did not want to re-veneer the door cappings as they are not exactly flat which may have caused difficulties in gluing on the new veneer and their condition was not too bad. I therefore simply sanded these down and applied lacquer to establish the grain/colour to get for the dash to match. The best way would be to take a sample along to the veneer shop but I am nowhere near so had to guess from pictures online. Straight Grained American Walnut has been suggested as the original used by Triumph but this did appear too grey. In the end I settled for Red Mahogany, the grain was not a good match but the colour was.

 I used the Veneer Hub ( https://www.thewoodveneerhub.co.uk ) and bought plain veneer at around £15/sheet (enough to do two dashboards). You can get more expensive iron-on options etc.

This is the plywood following filling and sanding with the Veneer ready to apply

I used standard waterproof wood glue and applied it to the dash, paying particular attention to the edges.

 

Then carefully laid the dash on to the veneer and covered the whole thing with a polythene sheet to avoid sticking.

 

Then clamped between two 25mm MDF planks. Use as many clamps as you can!

 

I left this for about 4 hours and then carefully opened it to check if any glue had weeped through the veneer. It had so I used a wet cloth to remove it. I then clamped it back together and left it overnight. This stage is not essential as the excess glue can be removed later by sanding once fully set but can be more difficult.

Once fully dry (24hrs) I removed the clamps again and very carefully trimmed off the excess veneer and cut out the instrument/switch apertures. I used a craft knife with a curved blade which I changed frequently. Particular care had to be taken with the glove box aperture because ideally you want to use this veneer to cover the door and get a nice match of grain across the dash. Same goes for the switch panel but here you have more room for error as the veneer required is much smaller than the aperture.

Once done the edges were all sanded smooth and I sanded the face with 1200 grade.

Here is the veneered dash components ready for lacquer. Note the matching door veneer grain 😎

I decided to use a cellulose lacquer in order that I might achieve a reasonably glossy finish. It also has the advantage of reduced drying time. I applied 5 coats of lacquer by brush, lightly sanding between each, building up a nice thick covering. (Note: if you have used any kind of wood stain don't use a solvent based finish as this will dissolve the stain and create a blotchy colour. With stains best use a water based finish.)

I left the lacquer for a week to fully go off before trying to polish it.

I used my DA with 1500 grade to flat back all the lacquer t a matt finish (a block will do but will be much harder). I then repeated with 3000 grade (3M Trizact) before using a cutting compound by hand. To finish off I simply polished it.

I am very pleased with the result.

The total costs were the Veneer (£15), wood filler (£8) and the Lacquer (£13). Everything else I had in stock from painting the body last year.

The cheapest quote I got was £500 (dash + cappings) so I am quite chuffed.

 

 

 

 

 

Is the Melamine lacquer cellulose?

[Phil C]

Yes. I used cellulose because it allows a you to apply a number of coats quickly.

[Colin Lindsay]

Looks like the Veneer Hub won't ship to the leper colony...

EDIT: they didn't. Their machines are 'not set up to post to NI'. In the end I bought off eBay, two sheets one of European Walnut (right, below) and a slightly lighter Cerejeira, both of which arrived today. For anyone buying veneer, the supplied cuts of 1080mm by 25mm are perfect lengthwise and deep enough for almost two. 108 x 17 is the actual measurement of the dash, but the veneer is supposed to be 1080mm but is a good 2cm longer. Now the fun begins!!