Herald bulkhead mounts, rubber or solid ?

[steveo]

Having trouble finding information on what mounts on my 13/60 bulkhead are solid / rubber, not much left on my car to go by, looks like the outer front was steel (on the corner of outrigger to sill) the next one to the sill is missing and is bolted metal to metal, the one in the wheel arch is so covered in goo not sure what it is/was.

The new body mount kit I got off ebay only has 2 alloy mounts for the diff and looks like only 1 rubber per side left for the bulkhead after fitting all the tub ones. 

Any help very much appreciated as it is doing my head in trying to work out what go's where as all I have left is dust!

Cheers, Steve. 

[ahebron]

There will be many opinions to this but in the past I have used conveyor belt rubber as a replacement and currently are mounting my Vitesse 6 solidly using stainless steel spacers and penny washers to get the correct adjustment.

 

[Pete Lewis]

this has always been an what where question 

from past comments  it usually has 4   alloy /metal packers  two on front baulkhead to outriger  and two on the rear tub  top diff mounts 

all others are a rubber/canvass packer 

to align all wonky chassis witha 50 yr old wonky body pack any mount with one rubber and as much solid packer/spacer you need to align the tubs /panels to suit 

i like ahebron used truck mud flaps cut discs witha hole saw  from my own experience some mounts needed 18mm to line up sections on a good straight chassis 

it seems lodgical to me that the two tubs need some degree  some solid to stop any shuffle or the first speed hump you hit will realign the body tubs 

pe

[steveo]

Think I will be going with your logic Pete and using solid mounts on the front outrigger corner bolts to stop it tuning to jelly on uneven roads, just watched a Youtube video with a bloke restoring a Vitesse, he used rubber on all the mounts & said this was as they left the factory ?

My Ford Ranger cab looks to be on all rubber but has really stiff mounts, the rear bed is just bolted solid to the chassis.

Thanks to all for you input, 

Cheers, Steve. 

[Pete Lewis]

the front are generally on the exposed mounts in the wheel arch as these tend to be sized with little adjustment ...unless they like mine had been opened out at some time 

it is worth adding a decent bonding wire to join all body tubs and chassis to battery so you have no old rusty or painted parts trying to get earthed 

Pete

[PeteH]

When I stripped mine out, 13/60, I found a variety of mixed Rubber and Alloy mountings. No consistancy anywhere. I made the assumption that the body having not as far as I know been off before, going by the butchery commited in the name of repair on the underside, said Packing was actually ex Factory?.

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

just browsed the parts catalogue and there is a lot of ambiguous notes about washers ?  pads and a lot of A/R  (as required) 

no clues about what goes where 

I love triumph Manuals that always seem to leave out the odd places that attract a question  happens a lot 

Pete

 

[steveo]

Every inch of my car has been got at by previous owners & garages over the last 54 years so not much to go on, very little original car left!

Only removed offside mounts so far, nearside may be better, doing all this just to try and get some door gaps back, driver's door is so tight it's hard to get the window all the way up & makes some horrible noises when you are driving on bumpy roads.

Thanks for all your input,

Cheers, Steve.

[Pete Lewis]

the front glass channel and NDV are sort of adjustable to gain more clearance to the A post and affects the glass fit  the rear channel has a bit of lower adjusment but 

needs the door cards off to play with the glass channel fixing  it is crude hole in door carcass and a  washer and nut can give some relif to tight glass fits

if the rear monts above the diff are slack it can make a lot of noise on rough roads 

dont forget when fiddling with door fits there are bolts into the middle outrigger where the two tubs meet under the seats 

and seat belt fixing  can be direct into the chassis   little things but they lock up any tub shift 

Pete

[steveo]

Tried everything, adjusting 1/4 light, window channels etc but it's still too tight, drivers' side is worst even had to take off the extra catches convertibles have to get the door to close, moving the body back is the only way. 

All mounts on drivers side now done so when the wind drops off I can get it out of the garage & turn it around and start on passenger side.

Mounts on seatbelt & middle outrigger will be the last job as I am trying to keep it roadworthy while working on it, never know we may have some dry days!

Did a vintage rally last weekend, good turnout lots of trucks & coaches as usual we were the only Herald, quite a long run & now have bad clutch judder so interior will need to come out to do that so will do final body adjustments at the same time.

Clutch has done well, looking at receipts it had a recon one in 2001 at the cost of £42, don't know how many miles its done as it looks like the speedo has been changed at some time, now has less miles on it than it had in 1999!    

Cheers, Steve.

[Pete Lewis]

lack of use  it may help judder ifyou give it an italian tune up

when out get the power on at 30 mph and slip clutch to drop the speed  , needs to make it work hard  , a bit of smell is fine  a lot of smoke youve gone to far 

there is also engine/ gearbox and diff mounts all can make judder  

Pete

[steveo]

All mounts are quite new, being a 20+ year old recon clutch I think it has had it day but will give your suggestion a go, nothing to lose, rear prop uj needs replacing as it has a tight spot made worse since fitting new gearbox mounts as the box is now higher up than it was, will try the uj before replacing the clutch.

Cheers, Steve.  

[Pdv]

Hi,

An article on his website, Rarebits (for classics) by Bill Davis covered this and he made two important comments.

First, never use rubber to pack the gaps, use the metal parts for that and secondly every part of the body that attaches to the chassis should have the rubber first ie no part of the body touches metal.

Steve 

[Pete Lewis]

i respect Bill but why do pretty much all kits have two thick alloy washers there seems few clues about where these go 

the service training notes just says adhere rubber pads to all fixing points on the chassis

agree any height adjustment to suit has to be one pad and solid packers .

we know that some baulkhead tub fixings are sized with less adjustment  the rear tub has larger holes for adjustment 

on reflection having two solid mounts on say the diff zone will stop any rear tub shuffle  

otherwise a quick bump into a lampost will close all the door gaps up   so it does need some positive locations once all gaps are set up 

just a thought 

Pete

[Jon J 1250]

Coincidentally I have been working on cleaning up underside of my 1965 12/50.

Most mounts have a steel washer/shim on chassis side and a rubberised canvas pad on the body side of the mount.

Only exception I have found is the nearside boot outrigger where the gap is very small and it only has the rubberised canvas pads. I guess this is due to the original tolerances in the body chassis, which understandably will probably a slightly different fit on every car...

My car has never been off the chassis and the panel gaps are good.

Best photo I can find after I scraped the underseal off to show one of the front mounts, and agree they are all thinner than any replacement kits I have seen, and one to show the transformation.

[foshi]

same on my 12/50 again body never been off paul

[Peter Truman]

Pages 8 & 9 make some reference to the body mounting BUT aren't too illuminating

body_herald_vitesse_service_training_notes.pdf

[steveo]

Thanks Peter, it's very Jeeves & Wooster, maybe I should buy a white lab coat before adjusting the body!

[Josef]

13 hours ago, steveo said:

Thanks Peter, it's very Jeeves & Wooster, maybe I should buy a white lab coat before adjusting the body!

Yeah and don’t forget the suit and tie too

[mark powell]

A pipe usually helps too...

[Pete Lewis]

On 03/11/2022 at 08:10, Pete Lewis said:

he service training notes just says adhere rubber pads to all fixing points on the chassis

that all you get in the training notes and we all know setting the heights of 50yr wonky chassis to a 50yr wonky tub  needs a strong cuppa and a padded cell

and abucket full of solid packing 

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

The main thing is that the bulkhead is level to the chassis. I too was sold back in the day that Heralds needed two large metal washers on the front outriggers and bulkhead points, so bought two. Years later I found they were thicker than the rubber washers, which compressed, therefore pulling the bulkhead backwards and down. This meant that my Estate roof wouldn't fit! I replaced with vastly superior modern rubber packing, akin to the canvas-reinforced rubber mounts that were available back in the day (or more recently from dedicated suppliers) and made sure the bulkhead was parallel to the chassis. I've got solid mounts on the two high mountings at the diff, but all else is heavy modern material.

 

[steveo]

The body mount kit I have has quite soft rubbers, so I have made rubbers for the bulkhead from mud flap material that is a lot harder & doesn't compress much when bolted down, it's all going to be a bit of trial & error but hopefully the outcome will be better than what I have now & the poor thing will have door gaps for the first time in years!

At a car show in August, I got talking to a chap that had a recently restored very nice red 12/50 that had massive door gaps, did take a photo but it doesn't show the gaps very well, hard to believe the body tub can move that much.

Cheers, Steve. 

[Colin Lindsay]

The bulkhead is screwed down tight as a reference point, then the rear tub is adjusted via larger bolt holes to fit accordingly. You'll often see huge bonnet to door gaps, as bonnet gaps usually rely on the positioning of the bonnet against the bulkhead, not body movement, and as a rule if there's a gap along the bottom of the screen then the bonnet can be adjusted rearwards to the best fit with reference to the doors. The best reference for body movement or sag is the B-post to door gap. I've often found that merely setting the tub on the chassis, and adjusting the doors to the b-posts, leaves visible areas underneath between floors and chassis that you can see require shims. This is one I used to own that had serious gap problems...

  

 

[Pete Lewis]

yes mine had the  sized  front baulkhead holes opened out to 18mm or there abouts  this meant everything was moveable but it still gave problems 

and on a straight chassis with new riggers and side rails all jigged  the rear boot needed over 20mm of solid packers to line it up with the chassis 

Pete