Iain T Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 A while ago I fitted mintex pads and noticed there wasn't any anti squeal shims fitted. I crossed fingers but yes the brakes squeal. I now have shims and Copperslip which I assume is fine but Mintex now make Ceratec. I can understand the issue with metal bound grease and abs but last time I looked it wasn't fitted to a Vitesse! Will there be a winner or divide the forum? Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 i have had a tube of ceratec for ages but not used it yet so that does not help much Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 I fitted mintex 1144 pads recently and used Copperslip as I always had before. The brakes squealed particularly when semi-warm. I thought I'd give Ceratec a go. Same result. ☹️ Sorry, that's not really answered your question !🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Twitchen Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 I used Ceratec with my 1144 pads last year and have no brake problems or squeals since then. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 I ordered a tube of Ceratec yesterday as I was curious and it was an excellent offer. 37 minutes ago, Dick Twitchen said: used Ceratec with my 1144 pads last year and have no brake problems or squeals since then. Dick, did you lightly smear on the back of the pad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Twitchen Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 IIRC on the back of the pad and then 'cleaned' finger on the caliper side of the shim. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted April 23, 2023 Report Share Posted April 23, 2023 Interesting you still use the anti squeal shims with the Ceratec, I'd assumed it replaced them, wrong again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 24, 2023 Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 the shims are there to pitch the piston load against the pad so it gives the pad a sort of leading edge the ceretec allows the pads to shuffle , being ceramic based is less heat affected, copaslip is an anti seize not a lubricant and it does dry out Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 The shims I bought are just thin mirror finish stainless steel. How will this stop a squeal? Or is it the due to the lubricated movement between the shim and pad? Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted April 24, 2023 Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 I think the shims work by allowing pressure from the piston to be exerted on one side (trailing edge) of the pad and this stops it vibrating back and forth under braking. I have exactly the same on my bicycle where the Vee brakes squeal unless I angle the brake blocks - front of them slightly closer to the rim than the rear... The shim should be enough but it seems in some cases additional silencing is required by the use of a lubricant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 24, 2023 Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 most metal shims have a relief so the piston rim only has a 75%contact with the pad it leaves a leading edge loading to the pad /piston contact there are many designs over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 The shim I bought from Paddock is rectangular with two holes for the pins. It may be that the shim doesn't quite cover the piston. When the Ceratec arrives I'll fit and see how it works. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted April 24, 2023 Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 on Hunters the lockheed piston rim was machined off to give the same effect but the pistons would rotate and then it all went wrong here is abetter snap of the basic 70s shim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Pete Lewis said: pistons would rotate and then it all went wrong Wasn't that obvious? It's the same as some people's obsession about orientating the piston ring gaps, they also rotate. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 24, 2023 Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 4 hours ago, Iain T said: orientating the piston ring gaps, they also rotate. Interesting?, On one very large (890mm Bore) Marine Diesel, the maker actually "experimented" with using even spaced pegs in the ring grooves to stop rotation. Unsure just how sucessfull it was though. I do remember they where a "right pig" to fit properly, and if you got them wrong getting the ring out again without breakage was night on impossible. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 1 hour ago, PeteH said: On one very large (890mm Bore) Marine Diesel, It must be a very different experience working with large engines. Passing the 150mm spanner can get a might heavy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted April 24, 2023 Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Iain T said: It must be a very different experience working with large engines. Passing the 150mm spanner can get a might heavy? Early one`s where assembled using very large Spanners and a 14/28lb hammer. Later it became far more sophisticated with Hydrulically stretched bolts. Hammers, in varying sizes where Engine Space Staple. The largest I ever worked with was 1000mm bore by 2000mm stroke, 9 Cylinders running 106 rpm. "Modern" Marine engineers, rarely, if ever. do the amount of on ship maintenence we did, they will bring on gangs from shoreside, but in port, who do sometimes travel with the ship. Back in the 60`s I inherited an Engine crew of 15 to 21 or more, which by the time I went shoreside, was down to 3 and the part time cleaner. Apologies for "rabbiting on", it`s a lifetime away now. BTW, laterly we found a lot of "interesting" uses for "copaslip", especially when crossing the line😁 Pete Edited April 24, 2023 by PeteH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfg Posted April 24, 2023 Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 For whatever it's worth.. Last year I bought a tube of Carlube 'Copper' multi-purpose grease, which 'helps prevent disc brake squeal' it says. It came as part of a 3-pack with a tube of Carlube 'Silicone' multi-purpose grease and a Carlube 'LM2' lithium-based multi-purpose grease. The content of the Carlube 'Copper' tube was of low viscousity (when we were younger we used to use the term " knat's pi.." to describe stuff like this). Conversely, the contents of the 500g tin of Molyslip branded 'Copaslip' is really good stuff with substance. I tend not to be a follower of fashion &/or named brands, but in this instance the real 'Copaslip' is very much worth having, whereas the alternative stuff is for the bin. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 34 minutes ago, PeteH said: Later it became far more sophisticated with Hydrulically stretched bolts We had the same experience with sheet metal presses where the base, two sides and crown were connected with large diameter tie rods 6-7m long. For the early presses we had to heat up the rods to expand then flog the nuts up. Later presses used hydraulic nuts, much easier! 36 minutes ago, Bfg said: I tend not to be a follower of fashion &/or named brands, but in this instance the real 'Copaslip' is very much worth having, whereas the alternative stuff is for the bin. I don't think my Copperslip is the real stuff which is why I'm going to use the Mintex Ceratec. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted April 27, 2023 Report Share Posted April 27, 2023 (edited) Just bought a small tube of Ceratec ex UK supplier as I couldn't find a local supplier here the cost was ridiculously cheap $16 delivered by air mail just to upset Colin L postage was only around $3.50, how do they do it compared to eBay where even the smallest item is over 30 quid GBP! I'm not arguing delivery quoted by the end of next week. Folks, thanks for the update re the Mintex Ceratec vs Copaslip. Edited April 27, 2023 by Peter Truman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 10 hours ago, Peter Truman said: cost was ridiculously cheap $16 delivered A very good price, I paid £5.99 delivered which is about $11. I'm going to fit the shims this morning and might go a spin this afternoon if the roads dry up. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted April 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 Fitted the shims and Ceratec and had hours run out today and no squeal.......until I pulled up at my car park space! I can do no more or in fact want to. The brakes still work which is the important bit! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigolf Posted April 30, 2023 Report Share Posted April 30, 2023 Sounds like the same as mine. They only squeal on very low speed movement, like coming to a halt once warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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