TFL Project 2030

[Mark B]

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1983-2223

This TFL site disappeared at the end of last year, basically a recruitment page looking to find people to help develope software for ANPR charging systems currently outsourced until 2026. Site was "under maintenance" for several months never to reappear. Nothing to do with the upcomming mayoral elections?

Somebody requested details through the FOI act. I have always thought that the introduction of London wide ULEZ cameras would be just the start of various ways to raise money from motorists, and that Pay per mile would one day be introduced by the current Mayor. He has denied this. End of the first paragragh states.

"The Detroit platform has the capability to be extended and we will be looking to build the system flexibly so that other forms of charging based on distance, vehicle type, etc., could be catered for if a decision was made in future to do so".  That sounds like pay per mile to me which personally I am not in favour of. Time will tell.

 

[Mjit]

You'd prefer the London Assembly to be spending significant sums of money on some rigid, inflexible system that would need to be completely rebuilt (at the same full cost of building the current system) should a future Mayor want to change things?

 

I did enjoy watching the Conservative Mayorial election party political broadcast last night.  There wasn't a single mention of what their candidate would do if elected just 100% "evil Khan", to the point I expected a video clip of James T Kirk going "Khan!!!!".  And I have to say "their candidate" as the only mention of them was their name/photo being flashed up for 1s at the end so all I was able to take from it was they they were female.

[PeteH]

ULEZ, Speed Camera`s, et-al. ONLY ever have one purpose. Raising Taxes. "Paying to pollute" is cynical, and IMV, morally indefensible. Pandering to pressure groups is totally non democratic. APNR, for example, is the thin end of a nasty "1984" style wedge, designed by control freaks.

There is a chart, I have seen, which alleges the Uk`s contribution to Carbon emissions is 0.9% of world carbon. Yet we are persecuted by media and pressure groups to make further cut`s to a way of life.

Pete

[Graham C]

My son travelled to Heathrow from Nottingham and had to pay £17 for the pleasure of travelling a short distance in the ULEZ. He said it was to get to the drop off point.

Driving a Disco 3 hopefully be kept the revs high to get his money's worth of polluting the atmosphere, need to get your money's worth.

What a con!!

Graham

[Mark B]

1 hour ago, Mjit said:

You'd prefer the London Assembly to be spending significant sums of money on some rigid, inflexible system that would need to be completely rebuilt (at the same full cost of building the current system) should a future Mayor want to change things?

My concern is not with TFL developing their own in-house system if it is to save money,  it's what the current Mayor's future plans are for its use. In my opinion, to build in system flexibly so that other forms of charging based on distance could be catered for equates to pay per mile, which I believe the current mayor, if re-elected will eventually introduce. 

[rlubikey]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

There is a chart, I have seen, which alleges the Uk`s contribution to Carbon emissions is 0.9% of world carbon.

Well Pete, we are about 0.9% of the world's population!

Cheers, Richard

[Colin Lindsay]

It's got nowt to do with Global anything, it's due to the fact that someone died recently from (I think) asthma caused by association with road fumes. Reduction of UK Road Traffic or at least increased revenue from same is the goal to fund TFL alternatives.

As for the Tories going "Khan" I'm still waiting for Labour to stop shouting "Thatcher" for everything from bad roads to bad weather.

[PeteH]

4 hours ago, rlubikey said:

Well Pete, we are about 0.9% of the world's population!

Cheers, Richard

Yes, BUT we only have control over 0.9% of the carbon output. Which would mean that even if we bankrupted the country, and made 50million lives more miserable in many ways in the process of acheiving zero?. We will still be suffering the effects of 99.1% of the world carbon emision over which we have absolutely No control.

Pete

Edited April 17 by PeteH

[Steve P]

54 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

As for the Tories going "Khan" I'm still waiting for Labour to stop shouting "Thatcher" for everything from bad roads to bad weather.

Well Angela Rayner, Labours wailing demon in chief liked Mrs Thatchers Right To Buy scheme so much, she took full advantage and made money out of it surprise surprise.

S

[JohnD]

2 hours ago, Steve P said:

Well Angela Rayner, Labours wailing demon in chief liked Mrs Thatchers Right To Buy scheme so much, she took full advantage and made money out of it surprise surprise.

S

OK, what about Nadhim Zahawi, a previous Tory Chancellor, the Cabinet member in charge of all Gov Taxation and expenditure, who was forced by HMRC to pay £5MILLION unpaid tax?

John

 

[PeteH]

11 hours ago, JohnD said:

OK, what about Nadhim Zahawi, a previous Tory Chancellor, the Cabinet member in charge of all Gov Taxation and expenditure, who was forced by HMRC to pay £5MILLION unpaid tax?

John

 

I suspect that both are only examples of the fact that politicians regardless of “persuasion” are not exempt from the temptations of corruption? The more distasteful part of life and a great media circus attraction to deflect from the fact that no one is concerned about the REAL issues, sadly, just what’s in it for me? Knowing where “bodies are buried” is a huge advantage in modern politics and big business.

Pete

[JohnD]

Regardless of persuasion?    How many Tory supporters and donors are "No-Doms" who evade about £3 BILLION in tax every year? Starting with the wife of the Prime Minister, Akshata Murty?  How many support or donate to Labour?

[Mjit]

19 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

It's got nowt to do with Global anything, it's due to the fact that someone died recently from (I think) asthma caused by association with road fumes. Reduction of UK Road Traffic or at least increased revenue from same is the goal to fund TFL alternatives.

Yep, London's air quality was (probably still is) below WHO 'safe' levels and was sited by the coroner in 2020 as making a "material contribution" in his ruling on the death of 9 year-old Ella Kissi-Debrah in 2013.  At that point in time some piece of national legislation had been passed that made local government responsible for NOT breaching WHO 'safe' levels and so the Mayor of London had to do something to at least show steps were being taken or else the London Assembly would be facing a line of solicitors queuing out the door with claims for compensation.  This of course gives us the almost comical situation of the Conservative party campaining for the Mayors job on the basis of him introducing the ULEZ, something he (or Shaun Bailey had he won for the Conservatices in 2020) had little choice about doing...due to national legislation passed by the Conservative government.

And for the anti-ULEZ crowd I'm interested to hear what alternative solutions people on here can suggest to (mitigate the huge legal costs of not being at least seen to be doing anything to) tackle air quality that don't involve using the stick of charging polluters and using the money to fund the carrot of providing cheap public transport alternatives...

Edited April 18 by Mjit

[Mjit]

18 hours ago, PeteH said:

Yes, BUT we only have control over 0.9% of the carbon output. Which would mean that even if we bankrupted the country, and made 50million lives more miserable in many ways in the process of acheiving zero?. We will still be suffering the effects of 99.1% of the world carbon emision over which we have absolutely No control.

At a guess something like 0.9% of the worlds homicides occure in the UK so, by your logic we should do anything to try and reduce the numbers as it's not going to make any real impact on the total number of homicides?

SOMEONE has to take a lead and so be able to speak from the moral high ground, saying "Yes you CAN do it, we have.".  Question is, does the UK want to just be a country of sheep who follow or the world leader we like to claim to be?

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, Mjit said:

Yep, London's air quality was (probably still is) below WHO 'safe' levels and was sited by the coroner in 2020 as making a "material contribution" in his ruling on the death of 9 year-old Ella Kissi-Debrah in 2013.  At that point in time some piece of national legislation had been passed that made local government responsible for NOT breaching WHO 'safe' levels and so the Mayor of London had to do something to at least show steps were being taken or else the London Assembly would be facing a line of solicitors queuing out the door with claims for compensation. 

Pretty much the same as a few elderly women claiming for the Swiss Government's lack of action to prevent them from climate change, and Germany's recent legal action to increase the carbon reduction targets. I could, I suppose, sue HMG for failing to prevent it raining this last few months and flooding my garden, after all if they had taken action against climate change then it may not have happened. Logically the victim of any road accident could sue the manufacturer for not making their cars stop faster. Would it have helped? Yes. Why was it not done? Because current systems are considered adequate... but yet accidents prove they are not. Sounds nonsense in reality but in pure legal terms, it isn't - it's logic. Therefore lawyers are queueing up to represent this or that claim, as if it wins they get lots, and it it fails... well they get lots too. 

The UK tackling climate change alone is like bailing out the Titanic with a bucket while others throw water in and ask us to bail that out for them, too. Does anyone really believe that if we all walked or cycled everywhere, used no oil or gas, and grew our own vegetables everywhere that the rest of the world would all look on in amazement and envy and do the same?

[Dick Twitchen]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

How many support or donate to Labour?

I am afraid I dislike this political dialogue but, like much of the debate on political/military/world affairs, it is not as clear cut as some believe.  Nuance is a apparently a dying art.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/08/non-dom-donors-who-has-given-money-to-which-parties

[Graham C]

Mjit, the problem with London is that they have become the centre of the country so attract the largest population, service industries, etc hence high use of personnel transport. I do believe the most capital per head for public transport is spent in London than anywhere in the country which does not seem to work in reducing your pollution at present.

HS2 confirmed the idea that everything revolved around London, as the project always reference reduced times to get to London.

An answer would be to decentralize of what goes on in London, for example my son had to drive from Nottingham to Heathrow so his girl friend could catch a flight to see her parents, so you have to pollution of the car trip and going into London. Train transport in Nottingham is poor, talk of electrification (East coast line) has been on the books for decades, but each government spends elsewhere. HS2 money has not been allocated for this and now suggesting we will have to wait until 2030.

If the government developed a better transport systems that served the population and not feed London then pollution in London may drop.

The only true solution to reducing pollution in London is to stop the use of all fossil fuel transport full stop, only too happy for Londoners to do this.

Graham

[Graham C]

Ps also sold burning stoves😀😀😀😀

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, Graham C said:

The only true solution to reducing pollution in London is to stop the use of all fossil fuel transport full stop, only too happy for Londoners to do this.

Graham

Hear, hear!   Son & Family live in London, and they do not own a car, mainly  because they don't need one!   As the Wombles sang, the Underground and Overground, plus the buses, make one unnecessary, to commute, shop and live.   Transport for London provides an extraordinary level of service and convenience.   Staying with them in South London, I had to be somewhere about five miles away at 0730 on a Sunday morning.  I asked Son for a taxi number.    Take the bus, he said. Early on a Sunday morning?    Yes, there's one every twenty minutes!  And there was!    London has a public transport service that is light years ahead of the rest of the country, no thanks to Tory Governments, but to Socialist Mayors!

John

[PeteH]

7 hours ago, Mjit said:

SOMEONE has to take a lead and so be able to speak from the moral high ground,

All of whom, think it`s OK to so do at my expense.

Pete

[PeteH]

5 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

The UK tackling climate change alone is like bailing out the Titanic with a bucket while others throw water in and ask us to bail that out for them, too. Does anyone really believe that if we all walked or cycled everywhere, used no oil or gas, and grew our own vegetables everywhere that the rest of the world would all look on in amazement and envy and do the same?

NO, they will all go on polluting in a business as usual fashion, and watch as we gradually turn orselves into a Starving, Freezing, Pathos. As far as I am concerened Global warming is the biggest "confidence trick" perpetrated in the last 200years. Milked to death for the benefit of a few billionairs.

Pete

 

[PeteH]

54 minutes ago, JohnD said:

but to Socialist Mayors!

A lot of this started under Boris, And by my reckoning he was no Socialist?. And no doubt paid for by the taxes of the rest of the country. Not one of your billionair "Non Doms" of whom I understand Cameron`s father was one? But the so are a few "opposition" contributers too, as I understand it. Non of this is specific to a particular party it is Politics per se, that are corrupt. (goes back beyond the Romans, and every "Ruler" ever).

Pete

Edited April 18 by PeteH

[Graham C]

PeteH, can you explain why we are getting warmer winters and summers than we use to get?

Graham

[JohnD]

It's obvious, Graham, another Benefit of Brexit!

[JohnD]

 

2 hours ago, PeteH said:

A lot of this started under Boris.

Pete

¿???????

You don't mean Routemasyer buses that were too expensive to run?  The £5 MILLLION he spent on Boris Island Airport?  Buying water cannon;  the cross-Thames cable car; the conversion of the Olympic stadium and the ArcelorMittal Orbit helter-skelt.  All costing nearly a BILLION pounds.  And all failed.  His only success as London Mayor was his own vanity.

Edited April 18 by JohnD