Toe in the easy way

[Pete Lewis]

on the old forum there was a lot of good ideas about tracking which gives accurate

results with very simple home made or purchased equipment

 

 

most triumph specs have around a 3 mm tolerance your not after rocket science or lasers.

 

 

here is my mk2 timber and tape method you need two trammels one for each wheel !

simply tape measure across the car many triumphs need to be at their static ride height which can involve rent a crowd or sacks of coal as 150lbs on each seat is quite common in the workshop manual specifications some later cars have unladen specs please check this out .

 

same applies to all square , get the rear toe correct and extend some straight edge up against the rear tyre above the bulge and sight it down the sill line , compare each side to be same /parallel to the cars body. then the back steering down the cars centre line

do same with the fronts sight and align the wheels to access the handwheel , for straight ahead .

 

other cheap easy solutions are gunsons trackrite

 

places like amazon have good value

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_2_9?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=trackrite&sprefix=trackrite%2Caps%2C141&crid=LMEX0K019U5Ys

 

these measure the side slip of the tyre and are very quick one handed to use

if the track is out you would not wish to know how far sideways you effectively drag the tyres each mile with 30' toe thats 46ft sideways every mile !!! ( 30' is around 3mm toe at the rim)

 

the spec never state if the linear measure of toe is at the rim or the tyre as this makes double the difference I prefer to err for the tyre as this is whats in contact with the road

if you check in degrees is better as this snag is not applicable as angles are angles

Edited November 7, 2016 by Pete Lewis

[Pete Lewis]

following the static laden  vs unladen here badly scanned are the variations between staic laden 150 lbs on each seat and unladen ,,kerb weight settings

sorry not having much fun with the scanner and a big wad of WSM sitting on the glass 

these are taken from the red vit /gt6 WSM   you can see there is a good variation in what spec you use between loaded and unladen 

Pete

Toe in spec012.pdf

[PeteH]

Hi

The Haynes Vitesse/GT6 manual, gives Toe in Front for all models as 1/16 to 1/8inch (1.6 to 3.2mm) In the unladen state. I assume it will be the same for the Herald?. (The Haynes WSM for that is out in the garage and it`s bloody cold and raining!)

If that is of any help?.

Pete

[Chris A]

Hi Pete,

I am preparing myself to check the 13/60 toe in, could you clarify for me whether the figure for the front of 1.6 to 3.2 mm is per wheel or the total.

I looked at saving up to make myself a copy of your 'Pete's toe in fixture' then thought, hang on I've got a set of roof bars for the Skoda. Boy am I a cheapskate! 😁

[Pete Lewis]

its total but if on radials aim near zero   those specs are probably cross ply and loaded 150lbs on each seat 

there is a problem with any toe spec in mm or inches    is it at the rim or the tyre periphery

triumph are unclear , well  they dont have a clue  spec 

an angle spec is far better as that does not mater at what radius you are checking 

in as much as 3 mm on the rim  is 6 mm at the tyre    hence side slip is the best way 

if you do unladen then halve the figures 

i would not want 3 ,2 mm toe on a radial tyre    get the old trig books out and work out you will drag the tyre sideways many mtrs per km 

so aim at 1 mm max is my thoughts 

have fun let us know how you get on 

we demonstrated the simple at HQ on twiddle days   i was amazed so many were ....amazed   

pete

 

[Chris A]

Thanks Pete. The 'operation' will not happen until the the temperatures rise to above 'bl**dy freezin' in imperial measurements or 'putain de merde' in metric.

[Pete Lewis]

you need an accomplice or a heavy brick to hold the opposite side against the tyre

box of chocs or a bottle may help with that 

bungy straps fly off and give you smack on the head or fling the timer over the fence  

Pete

[Chris A]

I am thinking of resting the roof bars on some chimney flue blocks I have, I will also (thanks to you tip) clamp them together.

[Pete Lewis]

not too high i suggest just one, then youre above the tyre bulge 

keep the bars low enough to pass the tape measure under the car in a straight line   !!!!

if youre looking for 0  it doesnt matter where /distance you measure 

but similar to the tyre periphery would be best 

Pete

[Chris A]

I do intend using just it one high, and on their sides to keep the height down a little more. Just been out to measure them 30cm, hum.. a bit too high I think to keep the tape measure straight under the car. You just ruined my post lunch cuppa! Maybe back to the drawing board, or rather rummage through my bits and pieces.

Hang on a sec, a couple of 3 litre wine bag in boxes could do it!

[Clive]

5 minutes ago, Chris A said:

I do intend using just it one high, and on their sides to keep the height down a little more. Just been out to measure them 30cm, hum.. a bit too high I think to keep the tape measure straight under the car. You just ruined my post lunch cuppa! Maybe back to the drawing board, or rather rummage through my bits and pieces.

Hang on a sec, a couple of 3 litre wine bag in boxes could do it!

I use a brick to rest my straight edges on, and yes, needs an assistant. And like pete, I set as close to zero as poss, but a smidge of toe-in. Works a treat. 

to do 4 wheel alignment I knew a chap who used a pair of ladders as the long straight edge. But I found string was better.

[Pete Lewis]

do the check ....................before you drink all the wine !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chris A]

38 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

do the check ....................before you drink all the wine !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The measurements would be the same in either case, just my ability to read them might be reduced, is that what you are saying? 🥳

[Pete Lewis]

yes the alcohol  might change the opinion as to  was it toe out or was it toe in 

depends if you remember the reading on the tape measure and should it be more in front than behind or more behind than in front 

after a few glasses it doesnt matter but you will be happy 

Pete

 

[Chris A]

🥃👍

[Colin Lindsay]

18 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

yes the alcohol  might change the opinion as to  was it toe out or was it toe in 

Toe in first, then toe out, then in out in out shake it all about.

[68vitesse]

Been thinking of trying this, covid has a lot to answer for, car currently on skates so adjustment should be easy and I have some lengths of 50mm box steel to use as straight edge. Didn't know if the figures are each wheel or total but all explained above.

Many thanks.

Regards

Paul.

[Chris A]

Still haven't checked mine, no great urgency as the car isn't going anywhere far in the near future and I'm waiting until the dust settles about ordering from the UK for delivery to the EU. Tarifs or not depending on declared origin of manufacture of items ordered, VAT etc. I know what the rules are supposed to be, I think, but some owners here have had nasty shocks.

 

[daverclasper]

Used a couple of bricks each side of each wheel and lengths ok 2" angle iron which was stable enough with care (though still would have been easier with a helper). No big sweaty blokes around to sit in car and set at about 3mm (was about 10mm  before! and nearside outer edge had worn more?). will do again sometime and just aim for 0 to 1mm.

Don't now how much difference a few mm makes really?, I think factory acceptable bearing tolerance would alter what it is doing on the road, couple of mm as well?.

Interesting stuff.

Dave      

Edited February 10, 2021 by daverclasper

[Pete Lewis]

Dave you must have seen   Ray and I doing this on one of our  HQ twiddle days  ????

dont forget putting it right wont replace the scrubbed off rubber 

without getting the trig tables out  think of a right angled triangle  the tyre tracks the hypotenuse  the car takes the adjacent and the opposite is the sideways drag

 

Pete

 

[daverclasper]

22 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

Dave you must have seen   Ray and I doing this on one of our  HQ twiddle days  ????

dont forget putting it right wont replace the scrubbed off rubber 

without getting the trig tables out  think of a right angled triangle  the tyre tracks the hypotenuse  the car takes the adjacent and the opposite is the sideways drag

Hi Pete, Yes, enjoyed the day immensely and got involved with the measuring of the tracking.

Improving it, should help with my new tyres since then, I assume?.

Didn't quite understand the triangle example, though the way I thought of this previously was, as the leading edge of the tyre if toed in, would be the outer side/edge and the thrust of the car moving forward in a straight line, would scrub this edge? (if this makes sense, hopefully).

I did think outer edges of both front tyres would have similar wear, maybe road camber/swinging right around roundabouts wears the nearside more?. 

Cheers, Dave 

Edited February 11, 2021 by daverclasper

[Pete Lewis]

from the past  excess toe wears the opposite tyre to Toe out

yes its the line the car takes due to road camber  that makes it this side or that side 

but not generally equal between both tyres 

must try and sketch the side slip triangle , not done trig since i left college Ha 

Pete

[68vitesse]

Just been trying the two parallel string method on my Mk1 2L Vitesse convertible, static unladen, had to come in as losing feeling in fingers.

Reading the previous posts the figures below would indicate to me leave the front alone and only adjust the rear drivers side, moving the front out so wheel is parallel, this is the only tyre with wear on the outside edge.

Have used - for toe in and + for toe out.

Never done this before so would appreciate any advice.

 

Regards

Paul

[Pete Lewis]

being a bit lock down  dead ........... where do these mm dimensions relate too ?? 

Pete

[68vitesse]

14 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

being a bit lock down  dead ........... where do these mm dimensions relate too ?? 

Pete

From the two parallel string lines to the front and back of each wheel rim with the middle figure the amount of toe in or toe out.

Regards

Paul