Is this a leak ?

[Paul H]

Hi Recon radiator - 2yrs old 1500 miles 

I have a leak about a cupful every 200 miles - couldnt find the leak then when fitting a new heater motor noticed a front core plug weeping - this has now been changed - Then Ive just noticed the pics - are they leaks ?

Thanks in advance 

Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

sorry but  YES

thats not good with such a short life 

[Clive]

Similar to what I had last week with the wifes car. Newish rad, but a hole literally blew open. The core is just very thin in places.... money saving I guess as copper is so expensive, but it is a real pain as I would rather spend a fiver more and get a thicker core.

I repaced it with a brand new rad, same as what was in there and seems OK. But I half wish I had fitted a modern ali/plastic rad, they are cheap, efficient and don't seem to suffer. IIRC a honda civic rad will fit a vitesse? I think it needs some brackets attaching, and is a specific model. Tempting....

[Paul H]

Hi thanks for replies - will ring Anglia Radiators tomorrow to discuss - in the meantime need a plan B as confidence is suffering - Were away in 2 weeks in the Vitesse so need to fix asap - Assuming I had to purchase another radiator what spec would you suggest ? The idea of a Honda Civic rad ( cant find anything on Google yet ) sounds good but I cant weld .

Paul 

[Clive]

No direct experience, but I think JohnD has one in his racing vitesse? He may be able to help....

The people who supplied the rad may be helpful. If they are any good they will sort it one way or another, assuming there is no physical damage.

[Clive]

http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/7103-too-hot/&page=3

This may help? a tale of cooling a vitesse, but page 3(as linked above) may give you a few clues.

[JohnD]

Clive's link offers a detailed history of how I got where I am today, the shortcomings of a (non)-original pattern rad and getting the Honda Civic-CR rad to work.    I'm sure from experience and the sizes that it's fine for road work, just needs a bit of work to make it function for race.  Especially the 'custom' thermostat cover, which I made in steel - getting the welds waterproof was a long job.  The rad needs brackets welded to the sides to match the OE mounts.   It's alloy, so I got some alloy plate, folded up some brackets and got a local fabricator to TiG them into place.

Since then, it's raced a lot and been to CLM.

 

On your pics.    The weeping at the top next the inlet hose, I'd say is a weep from the hose connection.    This can be a problem with the old and corroded fittings we have, that may weep as coolant makesit way around the hollows, under the hose and hose clamp, that shouldn't need to the very, very tight.     A solution is Samco 'Stretch & Seal tape' (or similar), a self-amalgamating, double-sided tape that can be used as an emergemcy reapor for holes in hoses, or wrapped around the fitting under the hose and clamp.   See: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silicone-Stretch-Seal-Repair-Tape-Rubber-Radiator-Hoses-/191187729439

 

The weep on the other side does look like the core has been holed.     I once had this in qualifying, a big leak!     Repaired it by taking off the rad, placing it flat and dribbling Araldite onto the hole.    This probably sealed up and lost that tube in the core matrix, but it stopped the leak, permanantly!    Definitly worth a try before going to the expence of getting it recored, especilaly for road use.

JOhn

[Paul H]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Clive's link offers a detailed history of how I got where I am today, the shortcomings of a (non)-original pattern rad and getting the Honda Civic-CR rad to work.    I'm sure from experience and the sizes that it's fine for road work, just needs a bit of work to make it function for race.  Especially the 'custom' thermostat cover, which I made in steel - getting the welds waterproof was a long job.  The rad needs brackets welded to the sides to match the OE mounts.   It's alloy, so I got some alloy plate, folded up some brackets and got a local fabricator to TiG them into place.

Since then, it's raced a lot and been to CLM.

 

On your pics.    The weeping at the top next the inlet hose, I'd say is a weep from the hose connection.    This can be a problem with the old and corroded fittings we have, that may weep as coolant makesit way around the hollows, under the hose and hose clamp, that shouldn't need to the very, very tight.     A solution is Samco 'Stretch & Seal tape' (or similar), a self-amalgamating, double-sided tape that can be used as an emergemcy reapor for holes in hoses, or wrapped around the fitting under the hose and clamp.   See: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silicone-Stretch-Seal-Repair-Tape-Rubber-Radiator-Hoses-/191187729439

 

The weep on the other side does look like the core has been holed.     I once had this in qualifying, a big leak!     Repaired it by taking off the rad, placing it flat and dribbling Araldite onto the hole.    This probably sealed up and lost that tube in the core matrix, but it stopped the leak, permanantly!    Definitly worth a try before going to the expence of getting it recored, especilaly for road use.

JOhn

Thanks JOhn for info -  I will be making contact with Anglia Radiators tomorrow and see what they have to say 

Paul 

[Paul H]

Hi radiator is out and on closer examination the left side could well be overspray from the top hose as I cannot find an obvious source of a leak .  The right side is a leak as the break in tubing can be seen.

To check for leaks I was going to use  the same technique for checking leaks in a bicycle tube. Using the bath full of water , blocking off the bottom hose, leaving on the cap and secure a inner tube valve to the top hose . Using a hand pump with gauge check for leaks. I was considering going to 30 lbs psi . Does this sound like a workable plan ?

Paul 

[Clive]

The cap will release at 13psi!

You can use a mountain bike inner tube, cut in half, and attach the ends to top and bottom hose. 

A few psi will show any leaks.

[Paul H]

Hi Clive - Genius idea - connected inner tube to top and bottom hoses . initially they blew off with pressure so added a small section of inner tube to both outlets and then added the inner tube with 2 cable ties on each outlet. The valve was  included  in the tube connection 

drain plug sealed and radiator cap on .

No visible air leaks and with a finger over the overflow took the pressure up to about 15 psi , took my finger off and bubbles came out of the overflow -

I will leave for a couple of hours and repeat and so far the radiator is fine 

I use distilled water + 30% antifreeze so where the marks came from i dont know unless they have self sealed 

Thanks again 

PS got to find the dog as she disappeared  when she heard the bath tap running  

[Clive]

If all looks OK when retested, you can just chuck some bars leak in the system when you refill it. It won't cause any issues, and will self-fix any small leaks. I ran a car after a bars-fix for years with no further issues. ANd as suggested above, other rad got an araldite repair. I also carry some quick-set putty stuff in case I get a holed rad when out and about. Not needed yet... (but didn't have it when a friends cossie rad got holed by a stone chip at Santa Pod last summer, I reckon a repair would have worked a treat, but he picked up a new rad at £250....)

[Paul H]

Hi Clive - is this the putty I need ?

Just remembered I did add Barrs leak when I initially filled the rad - looks like it works 

Paul 

[Paul H]

Here's a pic of the radiator testing set up  - I tried to photo under test conditions in the bath but the water reflection affected the photo quality . The cycle valve is top left by the top hose inlet 

3hrs under pressure and no leaks so will refit using another dose of Bars Leaks

Thanks for all your input

Paul 

[dave.vitesse]

Paul, keep an eye on the hole in the water pump. If the seals start to fail it can come out of the hole. The pulley can throw the coolant around. 

Dave

[Clive]

9 hours ago, Paul H said:

Hi Clive - is this the putty I need ?

Just remembered I did add Barrs leak when I initially filled the rad - looks like it works 

Paul 

I have a tube of a generic version, I suspect they are all pretty similar. Useful for all sorts in an emergency! (along with cable ties)

[Paul H]

RESULT

After testing the radiator with my home made test kit I emailed Anglia Radiators  that all was ok .  Anglian Radiators then rang me to bring in the radiator for a test which I did today . We live in Bury St Edmunds and the journey to Cambridge is less than an hour . The test took 1 hr as they had to dry the radiator inside before testing . The result was that the radiator is fine and ok to use . They even sprayed it for me  and all for no charge . We still dont know what caused all the white marks though top hose spray is a a possibility and keeping an eye on the water pump for leaks  -

So service does still exist and Angian Radiators in Cambridge  gets my vote  

Paul 

[Amphletize]

Always good to hear of good service these days, glad you got it sorted!

 

 

[NonMember]

It is a few years since I last had to use Anglian Radiators but they were very helpful when I did. Good to hear they're still recommended.

[Ben Caswell]

On 5/8/2018 at 1:16 PM, dave.vitesse said:

Paul, keep an eye on the hole in the water pump. If the seals start to fail it can come out of the hole. The pulley can throw the coolant around. 

Dave

In the picture of the rad in the car it looks like the water pump is fitted one bolt further round as I think you can see the weep hole that should be at the bottom.

Good to hear of good service

[Paul H]

Hi Ben - thanks for spotting the vent hole in the water pump - pic showing current location below - I will turn one position to make the hole underneath - whats the reasoning for the vent hole location ?

Paul 

[dave.vitesse]

Yes the vent/weep hole is normally mounted at the bottom pointing downwards. If the water pump seal goes the coolant escapes through this hole. Hence, if the water pump seal is starting to leak/fail you should seen a dampness or even coolant around this hole. 

Dave   

[Anglefire]

On 08/05/2018 at 9:34 AM, clive said:

If all looks OK when retested, you can just chuck some bars leak in the system when you refill it. It won't cause any issues, and will self-fix any small leaks. I ran a car after a bars-fix for years with no further issues. ANd as suggested above, other rad got an araldite repair. I also carry some quick-set putty stuff in case I get a holed rad when out and about. Not needed yet... (but didn't have it when a friends cossie rad got holed by a stone chip at Santa Pod last summer, I reckon a repair would have worked a treat, but he picked up a new rad at £250....)

I have a very small water leak on the side of the block - the drain/cleaning hole just above where the exhaust goes under the gearbox - only leaks for about a minute as it warms up and presumably again when it cools down. I've put some bars leak in the system which will hopefully sort it out.

[dougbgt6]

Mark,

you're lucky, most remove the drain plug and NOTHING comes out! I spent hours trying to dig out the drain. My understanding is the drain is in a cavity, a cul-de-sac, the lowest point in the block cooling system and it doesn't matter that much if it's blocked. Surprised yours is leaking, can't you do it up a bit tighter?

Doug

[Pete Lewis]

Barrs leak seem to have been overtaken by Kseal

We fitted barrs into the bottom pipe of every truck we built for 20 years , they work without problem  stops all the seapage leaks

Pete