Steering Column Joint

[Dave the tram]

Well, the refurb of the old coupling is not going well. Although I got hold of nice poly bushes, and the bolts were wired and undamaged, I cant get them out. They are of course cross headed bolts, so its difficult to get decent leverage without spoiling the head. I couldn't work out why they are so tight as there is nothing to be tightened against, but on cutting away the old deformed rubber bushes I can see that they have been tightened hard to the ends of the threaded part. Even tried clamping a cross headed bit from a socket set, to hold it in place, then putting a spanner on it but no joy. This after soaking in penetrating oil. Only thing left is try heat, or the friendly local garage in case they have some sort of impact tool.

So, can anyone recommend a supplier of a different UJ that will fit. I think most will supply the same FAM1718 one I bought, which has the bolt holes too close in. Failing that, its back to the idea of drilling out the holes a bit, or slightly smaller bolts.

Ho - hum.     Dave

[Clive]

https://www.toolstation.com/impact-driver-bit-set/p90581?r=googleshopping&rr=marin&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&gclid=CjwKCAiAyfvhBRBsEiwAe2t_i9zPmm92c2v8GiyUcvypTvhORcKaUKvm2mYxM9_SHCjnC94zd-pbmxoCRuwQAvD_BwE

 

A handy bit of kit, and may just do the trick. You wack teh end, which shocks teh bolt and turns it a bit at the same time. I have my dads old one, probably 40 years old and rarely used, but really handy when it is needed. (and no idea of quality of that one, but at under a tenner may be worth a punt. If it breaks take it back)

[NonMember]

You should definitely invest in an impact driver, as Clive says.

I'm a little surprised that your bolts are cross-head (Phillips or Pozidrive?) because all the ones I've seen were hex head.

[Pete Lewis]

Should be a shoulder  bolt 108976   if you can find one 

Have look  on mick dolphins lists

Pete

[Dave the tram]

Joy - bought the handy impact driver as suggested from toolstation ( click and collect as I'd grown too impatient to await delivery). Nearly gave up as still getting nowhere, but then applied blowlamp, quickly clamped and tried again. Got 3 out but the last one wouldnt give and the cross head was spoiling. However, with 3 out I could take it apart and make room to get molegrips on the bolt, which did it.

Thanks for all the advice, all made possibly by the power of the forum, the internet and other's experience. Hopefully back on the road tomorrow, but not if its snowy and salty!

Cheers

Dave

[Pete Lewis]

if you need a new bolt    http://www.mickdolphin.co.uk/   lists 108976 @ £2

pete

[Anglefire]

On 16/01/2019 at 20:26, clive said:

https://www.toolstation.com/impact-driver-bit-set/p90581?r=googleshopping&rr=marin&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&gclid=CjwKCAiAyfvhBRBsEiwAe2t_i9zPmm92c2v8GiyUcvypTvhORcKaUKvm2mYxM9_SHCjnC94zd-pbmxoCRuwQAvD_BwE

 

A handy bit of kit, and may just do the trick. You wack teh end, which shocks teh bolt and turns it a bit at the same time. I have my dads old one, probably 40 years old and rarely used, but really handy when it is needed. (and no idea of quality of that one, but at under a tenner may be worth a punt. If it breaks take it back)

I have one of those - well not exactly. Mine is 35odd years old and has more bits - but very handy as the head comes off and exposes a 1/2” square drive. I guess this is the same. 

Though I have recently invested in a dewalt impact wrench

[Pete Lewis]

I have had a 3/8  and 1/2" battery impact drives for   some years but the best buy was in a homebase sale with their last owner 

Selling off own  Guild branded , I got a  new 3/8"  lithium impact wrench and a hammer drill for £8 each   amazing 

Should have bought the lot and sold at the pub , i went back but ....all  gone , humbug.

Pete

[Dave the tram]

Well, the renovation of the original flexi coupling has gone well, polybushes fit perfectly, as do the 4 new bolts from Mick Dolphin - and these are better as they are a hexagon head to take a spanner rather than the original crosshead. All tightened and wired up ready to fit. While the weather is bad and the car off the road, decided to carry on working my way up and renovate the column bushes as they seam a bit slack, and investigate the random horn sounding and non- cancelling indicators while I'm at it. Removed parcel shelf, impact clamp, outer column fixings etc and all coming apart well. I've removed the lower inner column fine through engine bay, but upper half won't slide completely out of the outer. Tried both directions but when about 2/3 out it hits something. I can't think that there should be anything fixed on the inner to stop it sliding out. I can feel the lower bush and thread it through that , but then its as if something on the inner hits this bush. Same if I try to pull it up the other way. Any ideas? I haven't currently removed all the wiring connectors as some won't come apart and loathed to damage the wiring, so the outer is sort of hanging with lots of slack in the wiring. I had thought I might complete the job with the outer like that.

Cheers

Dave

[NonMember]

Sometimes they just accumulate crud on the bits that aren't in contact with anything. Then when you try to slide it out it feels like you've hit a solid stop but it's only the accumulated crud. With mine, it was the lower inner sticking in the upper inner but the upper in the bushes can do the same. Spray in plenty of cleaning stuff (WD40 or plusgas work but carb cleaner or other gunk is just as good) and keep trying. Rotate it when it's all sticky, too.

[Dave the tram]

I haven't removed any inner bushes yet, and looking at the drawing in my manual for 'later models' it looks as if there is a fitting midway along the upper shaft that engages with the steering lock, but unfortunately this drawing isn't labelled. The text is a bit unclear (to me anyway) but I think its saying I should push the locating tabs of the lower bush in, push the upper shaft down a bit cockeyed so that it wedges against the bush, and use it to drift the bush out. This would fit with there being something thicker partway down the upper shaft that won't clear the bush.

Has anyone had one of these apart recently to conform?

Cheers, Dave

[NonMember]

Ah, yes, forgot the "later models" thing. Does the upper shaft pull up far enough to clear the lower bush? If so, you could use it to push the bush out if it's off-centre. The locating tabs are a pain to "push in" so most people suggest you cut them out and just plan on fitting new bushes.

[Dave the tram]

Thanks, that makes sense. I can get the upper shaft past the lower bush then move it off centre to push it so will try that. Looks like I'll have to tackle the wiring issue and fully remove the column to work in it properly, and buy some new bullet connectors for any that are siezed and get damaged. I'm hoping that the wiring bundle for the key/steering lock has a single plug and socket arrangement. For the bush I'll try using a clamp and something to squeeze on the rubber tabs, but plan on new bushes anyway.

Cheers

Dave

[Dave the tram]

All sorted. Got the wiring all unplugged and also realise that the plug into the steering lock comes out with all the wiring attached and simply has a plastic turny bit that egages the lock - simple.

Got new bushes for top and bottom that are tighter and seem to remove all play. A lot of sweary getting the old ones out and nearly caused some damage with metal rod and hammer to drift them out. Then did what I should have done first off - as well as drilling the rubber lugs off, applied some silicon lube spray and used a broom handle and wooden mallet. Popped straight out.

Flexi couling all back together (twice as I forgot to put an earth strap on first time)

Cheers

Dave

[Pete Lewis]

Good.  Pleased to see you have wired the bolts

Pete

[Dave the tram]

All sorted. Got the wiring all unplugged and also realise that the plug into the steering lock comes out with all the wiring attached and simply has a plastic turny bit that egages the lock - simple.

Got new bushes for top and bottom that are tighter and seem to remove all play. A lot of sweary getting the old ones out and nearly caused some damage with metal rod and hammer to drift them out. Then did what I should have done first off - as well as drilling the rubber lugs off, applied some silicon lube spray and used a broom handle and wooden mallet. Popped straight out.

Flexi couling all back together (twice as I forgot to put an earth strap on first time)

Cheers

Dave

[Dave the tram]

Steering and column all back together. As ever, the fiddly bits will be a lot simpler second time round if I ever do it again. Much more positive steering with re-bushed flexi joint (on top of new rack and track rod ends), plus re-bushed column. Even the indicators self cancel for the first time in 12 years now I've set the steering wheel height correctly so the the switch lines up with the cancelling cam. Also, the random auto horn seems to have been cured. I'd grown weary of telling passengers that it was a safety feature that it sounded on every tight corner!

Cheers

Dave

[Michael 81x]

I have fitted a new uj joint, FAM 1718, to my 1980 Spitfire and the nut on the upper bolt hits the chassis. Is the only cure to file the chassis which I do not want to do.

Thanks Michael

[Pete Lewis]

is the rack centralised   ie if on alloy mounts you could get more clearance by repos or slightly off set the rack .  just an idea

Pete

[RogerH]

On 08/03/2019 at 19:14, Dave the tram said:

All sorted. Got the wiring all unplugged and also realise that the plug into the steering lock comes out with all the wiring attached and simply has a plastic turny bit that egages the lock - simple.

Got new bushes for top and bottom that are tighter and seem to remove all play. A lot of sweary getting the old ones out and nearly caused some damage with metal rod and hammer to drift them out. Then did what I should have done first off - as well as drilling the rubber lugs off, applied some silicon lube spray and used a broom handle and wooden mallet. Popped straight out.

Flexi couling all back together (twice as I forgot to put an earth strap on first time)

Cheers

Dave

Hi Folks,

I do not know if this is applicable to the cars in general but on the TR series they use the rubber doughnut  UJ and the splined coupling either side of the rubber does NOT tighten down properly as there is metal inside the gap that allows the item to be compressed onto the male splines.

The simple fix is to either hacksaw the clamp or machine metal away to allow the clamp to work. This also means that tightening of the clamp bolt is easy.

Also, do use a bolt (plain shank) for the tightening of the clamp and not a screw (fully threaded) for this job.

In my the attached pic you can see a shiny area of metal cut away. This barley misses the OD on the hole making closure awkward.

Roger

[Michael 81x]

I have fix my problem of the new lower steering joint FAM 1718 fouling the chassis by moving the steering rack to the near side as there are slots in mounting positions for the rack making this possible. Thanks to Canley Classics for their advice on this matter. The steering is greatly improved, more precise, over the old rubber bushed joint.

Michael Spitfire 1500.

[Peter Truman]

Roger I like the undercutting/deepening the slot, did you do it on both sides of each flanged coupling or just one.

I notice the undercutting is on the big saloon donut coupling but you also show a refurbed small chassis setup have you done the mod to that set up too?

Reason I ask is over the years I've had problems getting the small chassis clamps tight enough esp on the Spit, you know the splined clamp has relaxed when the steering wheel can be pulled up whilst driving! scares you. 

I might try the undercutting on a spare coupling, I think doing only one side of both the upper and lower flanges should allow the necessary additional clamping effect.

Peter T

  

[RogerH]

Hi Peter,

you only need the slot on one side of each clamp.

I have only ever done this to TR4/4A  but I'm sure it would work on any clamp.

I used a 3mm end mill but others have used a hacksaw.

 

Roger

[Pete Lewis]

the clamp bolt is supposed to pass thro a undercut in the spline so if loose you cant pull the column out of the coupling   its 

std steering design  safety  hence the metal bands across the old rubbers if the disc fails there is  some control remaining 

if it pulls out it not in far enough ( who said that ) 

pete

[Colin Lindsay]

14 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Reason I ask is over the years I've had problems getting the small chassis clamps tight enough esp on the Spit, you know the splined clamp has relaxed when the steering wheel can be pulled up whilst driving! scares you. 

  

Happens on my GT6 all the time. I really must tighten it up, or replace...