That was a year that was..

[Bfg]

5 hours ago, 1969Mk3Spitfire said:

two guys in a white van appeared on my drive

..and tried to fit me into a special suit. I told that it wasn't my size - the sleeves were far too long and the buckles were all at the back.  weird !

[Bfg]

Thanks guys

I'd really like to retain the glass as a replaceble fit into the backlight frame but we'll have to see how it goes. Have have bonded polycarbonate windows onto my boat (from the inside) using Sikaflex. I'm sure they have an etching primer to bond glass as well.  

Btw., I see no manufacturer's markings, like Triplex or whatever, on this glass, so I might only guess it an after market one. It's top to bottom dimension down the centreline is 17-3/32" (434mm).  I hope someone on the TR forum (or here) might know if that is correct (rather than being under size.

Anyway I'm back to square one again, with the glass loose top and bottom in its frame after several failed attempts sit it on the car. In the first instance, I wanted to go to a classic car auto-jumble and show tomorrow, and so didn't want to take the hood off.  I just wanted to tilt the hood frame forward to fit and measure the backlight to windscreen dimension.  That in turn would indicate how much I could squeeze the fibreglass frame to tighten the glass by 1/4".  

   

^ I hoped the backlight would fit around it once the rear deck trim, with its lift-a-dots and webbing straps on it, was removed. But then, quite typically - two of the rivet nuts turned and had nuts under those so I could get a socket in from the underside. Bottom line being that the rear trim had to come out too.

While at it I felt around for a petrol-tank-breather, as there's often the smell of the fuel around the back of the car and in the boot. I couldn't find one, just a vented cap.

The backlight did partly fit over the hood frame (this being the frame off a TR6 with its side rubbers) but the backlight wouldn't go down to sit on the deck ..so off with the hood frame.

Even with that out of the way, the backlight wouldn't go down. It was if the studs fibreglassed to the underside of the frame were 1/2" too short.  I giggled and poked, pushed and thumped, but alas no, the darn thing was not going to play nicely.  Certainly it seems that the surrey top and soft-top hoods are not just a five or ten minute job to swap. 

Indeed, by the time I realised what was going wrong - I'd been at this for two hours.  I must be on the wrong diet because my brain has been quite sluggish ..these past twenty plus years.  

  

^ comparing the bonded on stud with the screw that held the hood's rear trim plate on and they're the same size, indeed the same 1/4" UNF thread.   Because two of those trim retaining screws went all the way through the (stripped out) rivet-nuts - it simply hadn't occurred to me that the rest wouldn't.   Duhh !   

  

^The rivet-nuts looked like this, and it turns out they are made in aluminium.   ^^ And they now look like this !   That should give enough room for the backlight's studs to drop through.  First though.. to paint the metal, and while that is drying, to have a late lunch and to refit again the, now pulled out again, glass back into its frame. 

^ Btw, I held the rim of the riv-nut with the needle nose vice-grips and then using a countersink drill-bit which cut into that aluminium rim at 45 degrees until its rim broke loose.

Talking of backs, yes it's aching from lifting while reaching over the car.  It's a pain getting old. !

Hopefully a little more later.

Pete

 

 

   

[Badwolf]

I have nothing but admiration for the many on this forum with physical problems who absolutely Insist on torturing themselves in order to keep our cars on the road. The old saying (paraphrased) "you don't need to be mad to work on them, but it helps". Not sure if the white jacket with the straps helps much though, but it does concentrate the mind! Keep on the good work BFG and everyone else. As the youff say "RESPECT"

[Bfg]

 

Retry..  fitting the backlight . . .

After fitting the glass back into the frame along its bottom edge, using a telescopic awning pole to hold the front corners apart, and a bit of wiggling (the frame not me !) things looked promising.  

^ masking tape held the body seal in place as I shuffled things around to get it to sit down, and while I fitted washers and nuts onto the studs, under the deck.  The two studs half way along the sides missed the metal at the side, so I cut some aluminium angle to use as clamps. That worked well on one side but the other side's stud is too short ..at least until things settle. 

I then worked the top of the glass into the seal, again by finger power and I finally got it to just lipped in all the way across. The tape on the glass below that top seal is half inch away from the glass edge, so I really would like a little higher. or indeed the backlight frame a little further back.  To that end I thought I'd fit the fabric Surrey-top's spidery frame. . .

   

^ Its beginning to look like a roof !   ..but there's a few details I yet need to investigate (research) how it should / might work.  A bit of rubber fuel hose in the hole is temporary, just to judge the metal frame's length.   The rear legs to this spidery frame have what look to be new threads welded into the end of the tubes. Horridly coarse threads and hacksaw cut ends which yet needed to be chamfered, and I suspect their length is now too short.   The threads match the brass screw adjusters Roger very kindly let me have, so they are correct ..just horrid to push over a rubber seal and into fibreglass holes in the backlight.

   

The fabric Surrey top is presumable from a TR4 as it intends for its front edge battens to be pushed back under the windscreen's cap rail. However Katie had a Tr6 hood and windscreen cap rail.  The question I'm now faced with is whether to change the cap rail or the fabric Surrey top. ?    If anyone has a spare TR4 cap rail, or a TR6 adapted fabric Surrey top then I'd be most interested - thanks, even if it / they are only in such condition as to only make do.  ie., allow me weather protection until I get something better sorted. 

 

^ Passenger side door glass fitted against the door / weather seal on the backlight very well.  Not so on the driver's side. The glass sticks out by half an inch or so.  I'll have to investigate that ..as I'm keen to block other vehicle's tyre noise from coming in so readily.  

Regarding the glass in the backlight, well it's in ..and to be honest I think if water sealant (perhaps clear silicon ?) is applied then it'll probably work without dropping out. There's only a couple mm overlap of the seal onto the glass in the middle, but there's double that in the top outside corners, and then the glass is tight into the bottom corner, along the sides and and all around the back. The chromed plastic wedge strip is now fitted but it's not sitting nicely. Perhaps a new one might be a better fit and actually do something to better secure the glass.  The plan is to work the glass when everything is hot from the sun, to see how things settle further (..sun tomorrow please), and to rework the fabric's spidery frame to be a tight fit, which will push the grp frame backwards. 

^ I wonder if.. the top seal has been bonded on all the way across the top and most of the way down the B-post sides. But if that was hard pushed right the way forward when it was gooed, then to release it may enable the glazing seal to come back two or three mm. ?  

 

All things considered though - I'm really very pleased that the glass went in (..again) and the backlight is now fitted onto the car, albeit loosely.  That is A BIGGIE  for me ..in terms of the TR I sought to own and drive. 

 Step by step, we're getting there (..i think ? ) 

Pete

 

p.s.  yes the backlight is  painted primrose yellow.  Hey what can I say but that ..I'm adding flower power  !

 

[NonMember]

47 minutes ago, Bfg said:

p.s.  yes the backlight is  painted primrose yellow.  Hey what can I say but that ..I'm adding flower power  !

I like the Primrose top on a red car. My Spitfire's hardtop is either Primrose or Jasmine, on a Damson car.

[Bfg]

Yes, it's quite like the red and gold combination that was favoured by Colin Chapman ..but then what did he know about cars ! ? 

[Badwolf]

Pete - Really glad that things are starting to work out with this.

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, Bfg said:

Yes, it's quite like the red and gold combination that was favoured by Colin Chapman ..but then what did he know about cars ! ? 

He used a lot of Triumph parts so wasn't all bad...

[Bfg]

On 28/05/2022 at 22:16, Bfg said:

Not so on the driver's side. The glass sticks out by half an inch or so.  I'll have to investigate that ..as I'm keen to block other vehicle's tyre noise from coming in so readily.

Sunday ;  one of the issues discovered is that I need to find some sort of adjustment in the backlight's position . . .

  

^ the passenger side door glass is a very good fit against the backlight's door seal, whereas the driver's side leaves something to be desired. Just part of this is that the backlight is further back on the driver's side. This is evident insomuch as the amount of rear deck showing at the B-post, forward of the bottom front corner of the backlight, is 1/16" on the passengers side and 5/16" on the drivers.  And with bonded-in studs under the fibreglass frame there's no adjustment. The same would apply with captive nuts.

Upon investigation (top off again) I found . . .

   

^ ..the car's rear deck bolt holes are not symmetrical. 16-5/8" on the passenger side and 16-15/16" on the drivers side.  The restoration / repairs to this rear deck must have been done by eye rather than with a measure.  Most likely the restorer didn't appreciate these to be critical dimensions.  But that 5/16" difference possibly also accounts for the soft-top's hood & frame being noticeably tighter on this side.  Well.., I cannot redrill the hole through that rear deck flange 5/16" further forward ..as that is in inside the car.  

So that's what I've done !

I elongated forward the next hole in, as much as I could (still allowing for a nut & plain washer to just about fit under the rear deck), and I pulled the backlight forward on this side, so that corner stud is now inside the car. I had hoped to get a bracket and nut on that, the same as I've done on each side, but the stud isn't long enough (and I don't want to cut the down-turned flange shorter).

 

^ with the driver's side of the backlight pushed forward, whereby that stud is hard against the inside the flange, the front corner now sits 1/8" too far forward. Still this is a better situation for the door glass (which seals up the A-post).  However the angles are clearly out too.   To correct the side angle the front corner of the backlight would have to lift by 3/4" ..which simply isn't practical.  And even if I did that.. the door glass is still leaning out too far.  

An interesting conundrum ..together with a whole lot of admiration for the professional restorer who has the foresight to get this sort of detail right.. even as they weld together a rusty body tub.

Pete

[Bfg]

Sunday (..instead of me going to an auto-jumble and classic car show ) . .

^ To get the back top corner of the door glass to fit would surely necessitate it to twist ? ..as it presently sits well against the A-post.  I'm not sure how much of a compromise can be achieved.

Stuart, on the TR forum has said he uses a lip (or flap) door seal rather than the bulb type that Katie has.  And the lip seal allows much easier compression, so that the top of the glass isn't held out.  It sounds like the way to move forward, because if the top front corner of the door glass can go in further.. then so can its rear top corner.

Changing things one step at a time gives me a better chance of getting the foundations straight.  Presently the top end of the bulb seal was neatly closed-off / filled with goo that is less flexible, and that prevent the top corner of the glass going in further. . .

   

Prompted by your suggestion to use a lip seal ..and my bulb seal having a blob of goo in it .. I've just dug that out and refitted the door seal ..and yes the top corner of the glass does now go in a further 1/4". That in turn means the back of the top corner of the door glass is now also sitting closer . . .

  

^ I've removed the fabric Surrey-top's side-tensioning hook, for the time being, as I feared the glass striking it and breaking.  And I've pulled the bottom corner of the backlight out as far as it can go (with its bottom edge seal now hard against the chrome rear-wing beading).  Now the backlight's door seal is in contact with the bottom rear edge of the door glass for 2-1/2" and the top rear edge corner of the glass is 5/16" - 3/8" away ..tantalisingly close to hope it's within range of door runner bracket adjustment.

All very positive progress.  Cheers Stuart, your advice and prompting has been a great help in moving this forward ..in (you know what I mean  )

Pete   

 

 

 

[Bfg]

4 minutes ago, Bfg said:

Now the backlight's door seal is in contact with the bottom rear edge of the door glass for 2-1/2" and the top rear edge corner of the glass is 5/16" - 3/8" away ..tantalisingly close to hope it's within range of door runner bracket adjustment.

I spent quite some time yesterday, adjusting the drivers door glass (packers under the runners, and even pulling the rear runner out to very slightly bend it in at the top) to achieve a better fit. The tapered gap between the rear edge of the door glass and backlight's seal became closely aligned, albeit only just touching for most of its length and indeed instead of it being 5/16" - 3/8" away at the top back corner, I got it down to 1/16" gap.   Great progress and possibly just enough, if the A-post door seals are now changed for the more easily compressed lip-type seals.  

 

   

^ these are the brackets I made to hold the front corner of the backlight down.  As the single bottom (formerly hood-frame) bolt allows the the bracket to tilt, then fore and aft adjustment is achieved.  They work well. 

However..,  when used, and the front bottom corners of the backlight is pulled down - I lost the glass to seal contact "only just touching for most of its length'  ..now it's only just not touching  

..but at least it being close to parallel (gap) - it ought not be too drafty. Replacing the A-post door-seal to a lip type ought to help just a tad, but I suspect when driving the airflow around the sides / suction on the glass will pull it out.  Hey ho.., it is massively better than from whence we came ..and also better than the rag-top hood.

Ups and downs of Classic cars, along with the ups n' downs of being a freak. . .

      

^ Big head ! 

With my having the seat so far back, the lower height and different high-point shape (compared to the the soft-top hood-frame) of the backlight and its Surrey-top frame, means my head pokes out.  It may be only slightly but the position of this tubular metal frame is just there against the side of my head ..and that's with the surrey top frame adjusted high.  for reference, the straight edge batten is 1-1/4" (32mm) high, and as you can see the apex of the tubular from is close to double that.  

I've only driven a Surrey-top TR4 once before, and that was Mikes (TR East Saxon's group) excellent 4A,  also with Mx-5 seats, but that evening he didn't have the top on ..so no tubular frame.  And with his car's seat travel restricted and very much further forward, even the backlight in the back of my scalp wasn't a known issue. 

This is a great disappointment. 

[Bfg]

Following prompts by Stuart on the TR Forum, I suspected the issue with the side glass fitting against the the seal may be with the fibreglass moulding . . .

                                             

^ looking from the front ;  Driver's side, comparing the angle (tumble-home) of the backlight's seal versus the windscreen.  And the same comparison on the passenger side where the back edge of the door glass sits well on its seal.  These photos correspond to how the front edge of each door glass fits up the A-post, with the passengers being almost parallel but the driver's now needing to be tilted all the way in at the top.   I fear that despite best efforts.. I may be fighting a loosing battle where the moulding itself is not symmetrical.  Seeing this I reckon I've done pretty well to get the driver's door glass anywhere near.

Further discussions has now led me to suspect that rather than the backlight moulding being 1/2" out, it may well be that the top corner of the driver's side B-post is perhaps that amount too far out  ..not that you'd know it by the shoulder room mind you ! (43" inside dimension between the top corner of B-post trim pads.). 

It comes as no surprise, what with welded repairs and sill replacements, and possibly accidents, over the past 55 years, but correcting that will have to be a task for another day. It'll be a lot of work for the sake of closing the door-glass to backlight's seal tighter.  

Pete

[Bfg]

Update..

I went out in Katie yesterday, just locally around town.. going to Machine-Mart, to the grocery store, to a windscreen place, and to a couple of tyre centres (as the front right has a slow puncture or leaky valve), I came back along the A14, just between two junctions, at 70mph and all was fine.    

This is the first time I've driven the car with the backlight on, and the back window glass didn't fall out !   I'm still worried about it but am a little happier after I'd left the car with the old tin roof in place for it to get hot in the sun. The door glass windows were up - which meant the car's interior and rear window, together with that rubber seal also got pretty warm. and then with the rubber seal being a little more supple I'd thumped and pushed the back glass down to seat it as best I might.  Although the streets around Ipswich town centre and its 19th century suburbia are not exactly silky smooth, and these little Triumph sports are a firm ride, the shaking and twisting didn't pop the glass out.  That was reassuring.!

Any sports car is very low to get in & out of ..for an old gaffer, and particularly so for someone of my big n' tall stature with an iffy back, but I was really very pleased to be able to use the car 'conveniently' around town.  Of course, with Katie  not having the hood up, nor a Surrey top in place.. there was no headroom restriction (ducking into a door frame opening) when getting in n' out.  Shoulder space (for me with the seat so far back) without the folding hood frame was of course 2+" more.  It's still a very narrow car for me, but then that's just part n' parcel with most British sports cars.  

My monk's bald patch on top corresponds with the furflex seal to protects one's scalp from an edge. But even with my almost rear-seat driving position.. although I knew the backlight was there ..just an inch or so behind my head, it was not a problem.  

Very important to me.. ambient mechanical, town noise, and tyre / road noise from other vehicles, I was very happy with.  Driving around with the side windows up and with a wrap-around rear window was now perfectly acceptable in town, and likewise along the dual-carriageway alongside lorries and modern large-tyred cars, even after a downpour when the roads were very wet. So although tyre / road spray noise was apparent, it was not at all intrusive.  

Wind in the hair was pleasant and not so 'scrubbing', while wind around the back of the neck and equally to my lumber regions was significantly better than when I was driving around with the soft top down.  Side and rear three-quarter visibility with the backlight in place is excellent, as there's just the slim B-posts ..which were pretty much subliminal.

All in all then I'm really pleased with driving the TR with its backlight in place.  It is imho as worthwhile as the overdrive on the gearbox is.  The car is very usable and still fun without either, but one &/or both make these cars all the more convenient and comfortable to use.  It's a keeper ! 

Pete   

p.s. to be expected.. even light rain, without a Surrey top in place does come in ..at town speeds  And despite its low angle.. the rain droplets get onto inside the rear glass.    

[Bfg]

^ I was lucky, insomuch as I went to a Formula-1 tyre place to see if they had TR415 "fat valves" and could attend to my slowly deflating front right. They didn't ..but were kind enough to allow Katie  and I to shelter from the cloudburst and hail !   But I'd like to get the rear window sealed in and also some sort of weather protection on her pretty quickly. !  Pete
 

[Badwolf]

Glad it's finally working out for and coming up to expectations after all this time.

[Bfg]

The backlight is Okay to live with, having now tried it on the road.  It being an inch higher would have helped a lot (..in getting it away from the top of my head) but for the time being it is what it is ..and the studs are too short to fit some sort of packer under it. 

Regarding the gap (..rain scoop !) inbetween that and the windscreen,  and my head being in conflict with the fabric-Surrey-top's frame,  I've now considered the options, and decided to try and make a lightweight grp hard-top lid.  And I'll use the car without weather protection for the time being, or else refit its existing rag-top.. until I get the new hard-top-lid made. 

With HUGE THANKs to Roger-H  (via the TR Register and its forum),  I have an old steel hard-top-lid to work from.  It's been hand painted, is dented, has rust holes through it ..and fraying gutter flanges. It's been poorly welded / brazed (?) with a weird brittle aluminium-like filler, and the lid's inside structure and flanges are half intact  ie., the other half have rotted away ! ..so it's perfect for my needs

^ As Roger assured me.. at first glance - it looks better than it is.  Still, these original hard-top-lids have a pleasing line and are (relatively) spacious inside. The rest of it (inside structure, flanges, fixtures and fixings, seals, etc) will for my purposes be redesigned anyway. 

Starting off then. . .

  

^ This lid is a great starting point, for me to take a flash mould, and to make a new outer-skin panel in lightweight grp, onto which I'll graft simple grp flanges for the weather seals. 

  

^ someone had real issues with paint blisters.  The thick hand-painted black that tried to cover those was really hard to cut back, but in time I won over. 

  

^ the 'welded repair'  (rear RHS corner) ..split open again as soon as I tapped it with the dressing hammer.   ^^ Oh well, there's always bondo !  glass reinforced filler in this case.

^ second coat, and already a fairer shape.

Wishing you great holiday celebrations. 

Pete

 

 

[Badwolf]

This is looking very interesting. Good luck with it.

[thescrapman]

Pete, I Use X-Spurt tyres in Cemetary Rd (I think it is), always found them able to sort anything.

[Bfg]

Yesterday Katie  finally made it to her first local (East Saxons) TR group meeting, albeit an informal breakfast meet at The Alma, Copford Green, Essex . . .

^ Katie ~ TR4A, parked up with Rich's TR4, Bob's TR2 and Tim's black TR6. Chris turned up in his thirsty Covette Stingray a little later.  Good conversation, perfectly acceptable weather for having the top off, and good food and beverages served by our hosts, what more could you ask for.  The A12 was 40mph around Colchester which doesn't make much sense when the road is only being worked on at night ..and even single track country lanes are 60mph, but on the other hand 40mph is very good for fuel economy. !

In conversation I asked Rich if had, and whether I might borrow a TR4 Surrey-top windscreen capping, until at least I get a lid made in GRP.. Part of my motivation was that I was booked to go to Sandringham's Pageant of Motoring this morning and the weather forecast was not good, but seemed to be becoming more favourable with each Met-Office update. The hope was that if I could fit and drive with the fabric Surrey top, even if a little uncomfortable in terms of headroom, then I could go.  Otherwise I'd have to remove the backlight again to fit the rag-top.  Rich did, and very kindly offered to lend it to me, and so we went off to his home and with cordless drill removed the cap rail's rivets off one of his projects.  

Further good conversation and hospitality, before I headed home to try and fit it. . .

  

^ Katie has had a TR6 windscreen frame and cap rail, as is evident by the toggle's keeper for the hood frame. Its aluminium cap-rail has an indent above those, and like the non Surrey-top cap-rail for the TR4, its flusher fitting without the front overhanging rim.  The TR6 cap-rail also doesn't have the end (outside top corner of the A-post) plate and hole for the fabric Surrey-top's press stud.  Amazing then that all but the two rivet holes next to the Surrey-top H-frame's bracket holes were in the same position.  Katie's cap rail had been fitted with self tappers instead of 1/8" rivets, but still no second-guess drilling was necessary to fit the TR4 cap rail onto a TR6 windscreen frame.

 

^ Katie's cap-rail had been fitted over a bead of what looks to be clear silicon sealer, whereas the TR4 cap-rail was bedded on black dum-dun sealer.  I've removed those and instead used sticky back neoprene to set rail on.

^ First impressions were very encouraging. The front rail of this vinyl hood needed a little motivation to sit under the cap rail's front lip but I think that's probably quite usual. Clearly the vinyl needs a thorough warming in the sun to stretch it, as intended.. as it's width across the front is 1-1/4" short of that top corner press-stud on the passenger side and 3/4" short on the driver's side.  But even as it is it looks to be workable for low cruising speeds.

The side press studs pulled on, although the driver's side needed to be done first. And similarly the fabric's sewn in tubular-bow ..which is to pull down across the back edge of the backlight, and the two rear press-stud did go on. 

    

^ I presently only have one of the four hook-brackets fitted. These are used to tension the door window's draft-flaps.  However as it holds the glass away from the B-post's weather seal, I feel they might well be left off / an alternative used.   

  

^ Otherwise looking even better from the rear three quarter view.   ..well aside from the width being way too tight.

 

^ regarding interior headroom and the hood's H-frame being against the side of my head ..I lessened the problem by bending the rear legs of that frame into a bowed curve.  There's not much space in these cars for someone of my size, but as the top is not intended to be used unless really necessary, then a little compromise is to be expected and so acceptable.

So far so good huh, with a bit of heat and use - this fabric top ought to serve its purpose..  Well yes, but also not quite yet.  More modifications will need to be done, because as I tensioned the bow up - the back window popped out of it's top edge seal.     

^ As illustrated by the screwdriver, the top of the backlight has pulled up. The hood stay's adjustment was only by finger, no spanner or grips.   

That put paid to my going to Sandringham this morning, because it was already 6:30pm ..and tbh I couldn't be arzed to then pull the backlight off (necessitating removing the trim around the back shelf ..to get to the fastenings), to change the header rail back to the TR6 one, and to then fit the TR6 rag top again ..ready to drive off at 7am on a Sunday morning in the rain.  No thank you - I'll return to base camp and wait.. to come back again soon. 

What happened ?  well . . .

 

^ The fabric Surrey-top's H-frame (bowed rather than straight to give a little more clearance for my bonce), with the beautifully hand-crafted brass tensioning nut made by Roger-H. *  Thank you Roger - I recommend   . . .  The illustrations reflect what has happened.  In short ; although the tubular stays push back against the backlight, as one does so ..the tension in the vinyl hood pulls and twists the top rail of the grp backlight.  The bowed roof shape across the car adds leverage to this because the height of the tensioned fabric on the car's centreline is approximately 1-1/2" higher than the locating pin of the stays, positioned just outside the driver's head.  And that leverage twists the lightweight grp backlight enough to pull the seal away from the glass.         

It's not insurmountable though..  to rectify the problem I could remove the backlight, it's glass, and the vinyl trim on it's inside, and then clean that up and abrade the inside of the fibreglass as a key to add further resistant to torsion structure (ie., to bond in as large a diameter tube as will fit).  or else..  I make and fit (perhaps removable if so desired) a T-bar between the windscreen and the top face of the backlight ..on the car's centreline to counter the tension of the hood material.

For anyone buying / about to fit a grp backlight - either or both of these may be worthwhile to check for &/or consider.

Hey ho,  a most enjoyable morning, and then very positive progress ..so we can cope with a little setback now & again. 

Bidding you a pleasantly warm and comfortably dry evening.

Pete.

 

* NB. How anyone instead manages to tighten a plain nut on the end of this stay I don't know. It looks easy enough with the fabric off, but with the furflex weather seal below and the hood material above, I should think it rather awkward.  In comparison Roger's screw adjuster can be turned by finger, and the final tensioning done after the Surrey-top is fitted.   

 

p.s. the weather in Sandringham did start with light rain, but as we'd hoped it soon dried up until around 3pm when it drizzled for a while, then dry again until anytime now (5:30 - 6pm) when heaver rain is due for the drive home. It's also a chilly day for summer !

 

[Bfg]

On 03/06/2022 at 20:13, Bfg said:

^ second coat, and already a fairer shape.

 

This afternoon I moved on with filling the through holes and fairing the dents. . .

^ Starting off with lightly sanding coarse paper on a flat board, so the scratch marks give a clear picture of high points and troughs.  These I then filled and faired. To cut to the chase after a long afternoon's work, including bridging the frayed edge flanges.. and we now have . . .

^ the green filler with white over is my 'handiwork' to fair over the welded (and split open again) repaired back corner on the RHS.   The blistered paint encountered by some unfortunate soul was in the cream undercoat and then again in the red top-coat (..that was under the hand painted black when I started). Apparently this Surrey-top's metal lid was originally the very nice hue of light sky blue.

 

^ viewed from the rear corner of the LHS, shiny only because it's just been hand flatted with 320 grit wet n' dry, washed off and not yet dried.   That grit of finish will do fine for taking a mould off.  Perhaps tomorrow afternoon I'll get it waxed and a couple of coats of PVA release agent, and perhaps even a gel coat on it.

A constructive afternoon  (..that's heading in the right direction ! )

Pete

[thescrapman]

Pete

dont forget that the header capping is the same as a Mk1/2 Spitfire, and they are likely to be cheaper as there will be no TR tax.

[Bfg]

 

Just a few hours on the job this afternoon, but hopefully (if things go well !) then useful progress made. . .

^ Three polishing coats of Mirrorglaze bee's wax, which I've long used as a release agent when making moulds and with mouldings.  There's no additives and nothing to chemically react with, just bee's wax, which together with elbow grease to really rub the wax into the surface, all the corners, and of course any scratchmarks, pin holes, etc. The wax is equally vigorously rubbed off again, inbetween coats, so as to minimise surface build up.  

^ next up I applied two coats of PVA release agent, using a small pad of soft cloth.  The PVA is applied as thinly and smoothly as can practically be done (so as to avoid brush and dab marks.  I focused on making sure the PVA really brushed into the crease of the folded-double front edge, as well as onto the vertical sides of the rain gutters.  Once the first coat has air dried then I similarly applied a second coat at 90 degrees to the first. This helps build an even thickness film of PVA (micron when dry) and of course to ensure that nowhere gets missed. 

You'll note that the pattern's surface reflections have gone from matt (320 grit wet n' dry) to a waxed sheen, to a PVA'ed satin .   

After that had also dried then I moved on to gel coating the surface. . .

  

Gel coat being hand-painted on is thickened polyester resin (setting when catalyst is mixed in with it), often with a colour pigment (in this case white as it's left over materials from my making new cockpit hatches for the boat). The second photo simply shows that I started painting along the edges and worked my way in as a spiral  so as to maintain a 'wet-edge' to the coating. 

The gel-coat is the surface / skin layer of a mould or moulding (panel) which ought to be mostly devoid of visible air bubbles / pin-holes.  Its thickness is necessary to help prevent 'print-through' of glass fibres showing ..and to a large extent because it may be considered a sacrificial that may be sanded and polished smooth.  It has next to no strength, so its thickness needs to just thick enough to cover the surface. Too thick and the edges will easily chip and stressed surface areas will show cracks / craze. 

Neither the gelcoat, nor fibrglass laminates, are absolutely water-proof. They are in fact hydroscopic, insomuch as they will absorb moisture from the atmosphere and similarly it will allow moisture within the fibreglass to (very slowly) pass through it so to dry out.  This is common practice with racing grp sailing boats which are removed from the water to dry out, and therefore be lighter.  Wax and other surface finishes (including some paints and most epoxy coatings) will seal the surface.  Epoxy is pretty close to being water-tight.

My need, for this flash mould, is a gel-coated surface that can be lightly sanded (..on its presently unseen underside surface) to get rid of, or at least lessen, surface blemishes that were in the pattern. Any scratches, pin-holes, and even the hollows of paint blisters on the panel will be raised ridges, blips, etc in the mould and so are easy to sand back to the mean-surface. 

  

^ The visibly hand-painted finish will be covered with fibreglass impregnated with polyester resin, so it's not super critical. I simply sought an even-thickness and unbroken  covering.  

Job done.  

 

It's old stock materials so I just have to trust that it still goes off (and also that I guessed the right amount of catalyst to add).  Although gel-coat sets, its surface remains tacky until the air is excluded. On the inside the original steel panel is doing that. On it's outside I'll be covering it (..within a day or two) with fibreglass impregnated with polyester resin. That then cures the gel-coat's surface and its own outside surface dries tack-free.  

In a few days time we'll see.

In the meantime, have a good evening.  I'm off to supper and the TSSC club meet at the Sorrel Horse, Barham. 

Pete.

 

 

[Badwolf]

Fascinating!👍

[Bfg]

20 hours ago, Bfg said:

It's old stock materials so I just have to trust that it still goes off (and also that I guessed the right amount of catalyst to add).  Although gel-coat sets, its surface remains tacky until the air is excluded.

After a couple of hours the gel coat was still wet !  ..and the day (not particularly warm anyway) was fast turning to dusk, and so the temperature was likely to drop more. 

Panic ?  ..or go to the pub ! ??  

.. quickly build a tent under the lid / around the two 'Workmates' it is sitting on, with an electric oil-filled radiator inside..  and then go to the pub. . .  

 

   

TSSC club meeting at The Sorrel Horse Inn, with Katie  parked in alongside Russel's wonderful 2ltr estate.

Pete

p.s. when I got home.. the steady low warmth from the radiator had done its deed, and the gel coat was setting and tacky.  Not quite enough but its 'kicking off' was underway., so I left the radiator on low until the early hours of this morning.  That worked, and now within the sun-warmed polytunnel, the gelcoat is reassuringly set but still surface tacky.   Phew .. I really didn't want to clean all that off and start again !  

[Badwolf]

Pete BFG - Firstly, good decisions on your course of actions. Secondly, you should be sooo proud of what you have achieved. Be glad.