That was a year that was..

[1969Mk3Spitfire]

Pleased to read of the progress, @Bfg

I left the tyre industry in 1986 but hearing talk of a steering vibration at around 60 miles per hour still sends shivers up my spine 35 years on.

Balance is just one component. Tyres are also measured (and selected) based upon radial and lateral force variation. If there is a run-out from rim to axle fixing, to the wheel bead profile, to the tyre, you’re on a hiding to nothing.

I also recall my Mk1 Cortina from the 70s that had a really bad vibration at 60mph solved completely by fitting new track rod ends and idler arm bushes.

In my later career, I worked with turbos and these can idle around 20,000 and accelerate to up to 180,000 rpm in seconds. Chasing induced NVH issues was the stuff of nightmares.

Good luck.👍

[Gully]

11 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

A Mits Lancer Coupe I had needed tyres and I fitted Firestone (reputable make) all balanced and steering track adjusted, on the drive home when I reached around 90kph the steering shake/vibration was terrible, so back I went thice each time a little better but still not acceptable. Finally I instructed them to fit Goodyears (with full refund) problem solved so don't always look past the obvious.

Absolutely - I had that with a  set of Avons on my GT6. Cured by fitting a set of Falkens!

Gully

[Pete Lewis]

  what is the vibrations  frequency   theres a big difference between the engine /driveline and tyre rotational speeds 

that drive the vibration frequency    

does it shake the steering wheel ?   or feel through the body , ?  does it have any noise associated ??

Pete

 

 

[Bfg]

On 28/10/2022 at 10:10, Bfg said:

^ Beauty in engineering.

Some may think it scaremongery, but I'm led to believe that at least two TR's  - just in our local group, have suffered hub failure and the resultant loss of a wheel ..and I didn't want to be the next. The half-shafts on Katie  when I bought her were swapped out because ; the wheel bearing on one side was worn as well as the spline on the other.  The second-hand replacements I bought were within my budget at the time, but also an unknown quantity - not least because their hub's nuts were undone. Sound warning advice from those on this excellent forum - who know better than I..  warned of the risk following the excessive force required to remove those hubs ...and the unseen stress damage to the metal.

Those I fitted seem to be OK, but next year I hope to be towing a camping trailer, travelling further afield.. and I'd rather like to be confident - that a wheel is not going to fall off.   So, new  hubs, together with CV jointed half shafts, courtesy of CDD ( Classic Driving Developments).

Yesteraday was the day I set to fitting the new CDD cv-jointed half-shafts, with new hubs.  I'm sure anyone who buys a pair will take due note of the fitting instructions, as indeed I did ..once I'd figured out how to convert those into a format readable by my old (2003) version of Microsoft Word. < CDD's instructions may be found here >

For those considering doing the task themselves, here's a quick pictorial review of my own experience.   I trust Classic Driving Developments (CDD) won't mind me reproducing extracts of their written instructions here, to go along with my own photos . . .

  

^ I loosened the rear wheel's nuts (with the car on the ground) and then raised the whole car up onto four wheel ramps. I moved one of those ramps to support under the chassis (with timber blocks on the ramp to level the car), and used the trolley jack under the back end of the trailing arm - to raise it normal ride-height inclination.  The second photo illustrates this, with the bottom of the trailing arm casting (for the damper link arm mounting) approximately level with the underside of the chassis rail. 

The wheel and the brake drum were then removed.

" 2)  Many of these cars have been repaired over the years,  so check the shaft fit dimension; this is the distance from the face of the diff flange to the face of the trailing arm at normal ride height, 400 mm for TR. "

  

^ poking the tape measure through, above the chassis rail - to measure from the back face of the brake plate to the joint of the diff flange measured 403mm on both sides.  I reckoned that was close enough as the instructions warn  " When fitting these shafts and when fitted do not allow the max droop to exceed 440 mm measured from the centre of the hub / shaft to the return edge of the wheel arch. "

Next up, is to remove the old half shaft. . .

^ I removed the four nyloc nuts (9/16" spanner) & their bolts (9/16" ring spanner), and rested the half-shaft on a block of timber on the chassis rail - supporting under the flange.  This helps when the shaft is being withdrawn (through the trailing arm and brake's back-plate) as its diff end / that flange is already supported to the right height.  

  

^ The hub nuts are undone (1/2" socket) and the old half-shaft complete with hub is withdrawn.  Note ; the brake is not disturbed. It just rests on the trailing arm studs.

I'd bought the cv-jointed half shafts complete with new hubs. The nut on the hub end is loose as the inner (diff end) cv-joint adapter does not fit through the trailing arm. "The driveshaft goes into the hub from the diff side and is then move back to engage the diff flange bolts / studs " . . .

 

" On receiving your drive shafts remove the outer nut and washer and while holding the alloy hub and the drive flange together pull it off the CV joint spline. Place on a clean surface, flange uppermost.   The driveshaft is provided assembled and all joints preloaded with grease, so no need to dismantle."

^ Undo the nut and pull the hub off the spline (thumb pressure on the end of the thread gets it moving).   I suspect their comment "flange uppermost" is to keep dust out of of the hub.  My work space may only be a poly-tunnel but it's not grimy !

  

^ aside from the hub, the shiny bits of metal a ferrous. Having seen a relatively new one with surface rust starting to appear, I opted to give mine (the shiny bits not the rubber) a coat of clear lacquer.  Radiator aided timely drying of said (smelly) paint.  No paint on the spline nor on the diff-mating flange face.

^ I substituted their " Wire brush & clean the inside of the trailing arm so no dirt will fall onto the spline / hub assembly." with ; double wrap with bubble-wrap the splines to keep them clean and damaged-free during fitting.

 

Next up ; " Various exhaust systems and dampers may have been fitted over the life of your car; so there may be slightly different procedures necessary. The lever arm damper on the near side will have to be detached from its’ chassis mounting (does depend on fuel pipe positions). Telescopic dampers also may have to be disconnected from the trailing arm. Stag / Innsbruck have telescopic which can remain in place. " . . .

^ on this side at least, I was very fortunate in not needing to dismantle, move, or even loosen any other component. The gap through which the splined end of the shaft must go, is a tight squeeze inbetween the lever-arm, the chassis rail, and the diff's flange - but with protecting sheet over the chassis rail, and articulating the joints, and thumbing the rubber gaiter upwards - it fitted.       

 

I haven't done the right-hand-side yet, so I can't say if that shaft will also go over Katie's  single exhaust pipe.  Tomorrow will tell !

  

^ Cv-joint adapter (the black bit) has studs rather than through bolts. New nylocs were supplied. These were duly engaged with the diff's flange and a nut loosely screwed on while i checked the other end.  Protection over the threaded end and the shaft's spline worked well.

 

^ despite the instructions (.. yes really ! ) - I wiped moly-Lithium grease around the spine, and the red grease (already in the hub) around the seal. 

The hub refits onto the half-shaft's spline and engages with the six studs from the trailing arm, projecting through the brake's back plate. The notch cut out of the hub's flange doesn't index with anything on this model of car ..that I can see. Perhaps it provides clearance on the Triumph Stag / Innsbruck.? 

" Do up the 6 off hub studs to 16 lbs ft. Be careful here; the thread of these studs are known to be ‘suspect’. If you have any doubt about their security consider fitting the 3/8 unc stud kit."   Note. nylocs were not supplied for these, but the use of new ones are strongly recommended.  x12 in total (5/16 UNF) are required (as standard) for both sides. 

As the hub was pushed on - the shaft itself moved inwards - whereby no thread was protruding. Reaching in to behind the trailing arm allowed me to easily pull it out to get the nut on.  The pair of shafts came with one plain nut and two lock nuts, the plain nut is fitted temporarily. 

" Now place the washer and the M22 PLAIN nut on the splined shaft and nip up.  Rotate the hub and listen for any scraping noise; you are looking for any fouling of the CV boot gaiter clip on the inner of the trailing arm housing. It will be a band 69 to 75 mm from the trailing arm face. If all is ok then remove the plain M22 nut and replace with the locking M22 nut. Tighten as much as possible.  Complete and check all operations."

" Replace the drum and road wheel.  When the car is on the ground engage the hand brake and chock the wheels. Tighten the driveshaft nut ( 32 mm AF) to 290 Nm or 215 lb ft.  If your torque wrench will not go this high then it is ok to tighten to 120 lb ft, and drive a short distance to a workshop to have them tightened to the full torque setting. "

Thanks to my friend Rich (...yet again !! ) who lent me his shiny new Teng_Tools torque wrench which goes upto 258 ft.lb  so I could get on and do the job. However with recent upheavals I seem to have misplaced my 32mm sockets, but I have one coming tomorrow.  In the meantime it's done up to 180 ft.lb. 

I had hoped to fit the other side as well, but a neighbour had issues with his car's headlamps, so I've postponed fitting the RH side until today. 

Hope the above is useful to those considering fitting these half-shafts to your car.   Sorry live axle car owners - you miss out on this sort of fun. 

More tomorrow (hopefully),

Pete

[Stratton Jimmer]

I fitted CDD shafts to my GT6 last year replacing the rotoflex half shafts. I'm very pleased with them. The job is probably more difficult on the GT6 than it is on the coil spring TR but it wasn't too bad.

[Gully]

I've had CDD driveshafts on my GT6 for 6 or 7 years now - fitted by Robsport who bought them through TRGB if I recall correctly. There's a surprising amount of play (rotational float) on one of them after 10-12k miles.

Gully

[Bfg]

On 24/11/2022 at 11:36, Bfg said:

I had hoped to fit the other side as well, but a neighbour had issues with his car's headlamps, so I've postponed fitting the RH side until today. 

^^ this didn't happen because a friend who lives on his boat down at Fox's marina called up to go for lunch.  At first I declined the invitation but then thought that he sounded as if he needed to have someone to talk to.  We had a good roast-turkey lunch at the Swan, in Westerfield, and good conversation. 11 hours later and one too many coffees, it was late night and so no second half-shaft on Katie .  Missed my local (East Saxons) TR group meeting in the evening, but that's just the way it goes sometimes.

Friday, was cool but sunny here on the east coast, and natural light makes working on, and even under, the car much easier. . .

^ Fitting this was very much the same process as on the left side ; with wheel and brake drum off, old shaft removed, new half-shaft's hub removed, and the ferrous metal parts coated with clear lacquer, the spline and thread protected - it was ready to fit.

The only difference to fitting the half-shaft into this side of this car was the exhaust pipe. . .

    

^ Fortunately Katie  is fitted with a nice n' quiet exhaust system - a single pipe running back to the cross-box-silencer under the spare wheel well. But still, the hole to feed the half shaft through was not quite big enough. Happily with the silencer's RH exhaust clamp removed, and supporting strap released, I could prise the pipe down enough just enough to squeeze the half-shaft through.  It did lightly scratch the shaft's new clear lacquer, across the black adapter piece - which is about 4mm larger in diameter than the flange, but thankfully the shaft went through without further dismantling of any other component. 

   

^ the mating face of the brake's back-plate was a bit cruddy (..perhaps that reddish layer was hand painted red-oxide primer).  I scraped that off so the hub's flange would mate onto a flat surface.  Then it was just a matter of my wiping moly-lithium into the spline (carefully not onto the thread) and dropping the hub back onto the end of its shaft.  As said before the six 5/16" UNF nylocs (1/2" AF socket) are tightened to just 16ft.lb.   I didn't use Loctite on these threads, but I did on the diff flange nylocs. . . 

^ with the exhaust clamp back in place and the exhaust shoved around to make sure it cannot reverberate against the chassis (particularly where it goes through the tunnel and I have additional T-shirt plates), and the job was almost done. 

Brake drum and wheel back on, and the car lowered to the ground, I tightened the outside hub nuts to 212 ft.lb.

Inclusive of scrabbling around on the floor, stopping to take photos, removing the car off the four car-ramps, and putting the tools away - this side to took me about 2 hours to exchange.

- - -

Test drive - down the A14 wasn't at all comprehensive because of its traffic on a Friday afternoon, however from what I might ascertain . . . 

• Town speed driving, getting to n' from the dual-carriageway through housing estate and a slow stretch of major trunk route, revealed the drive-train to be discernibly quieter and smoother than before, most notable through roundabouts and tighter turnings.
• On the dual-carriageway itself though - I'm just a little disappointed to report that Katie's  resonant-type vibration persists between 60 and 70mph ..peaking around the mid 60's.  At all speeds she's now smoother than I've yet known the car, but only below 60mph and at 70mph and above is she smooth.

I still have a few more thing to do, not least to rebuild the front suspension, adjust the front's height, and to replace those wheel bearings. I noted today that the front-right wheel bearing is a little too loosely adjusted, and that in itself may contribute to some vibration. I also want to swap the old rear-brake-drums for the lighter-weight Alfin ones. 

So more tasks, and therefore more reports , yet to come !

- - -

My primary concern, in spending the money on these shafts, was not one of vibration, but of a hub failure - after so many have been reported. Eradicating spline lock-up was a big bonus, and then smoothness is ..well a dollop of fresh cream on the top.  In respect of the hubs, I'm pleased to say that I'm very-much-more confident (without the disconcerting clunks of the splines) to power-accelerate around roundabouts and tighter corners. 

Happily I'm getting close to being able to drive  the car as she was designed to be used on the road. 

The half-shafts I've just taken off ?  There's little or no discernible amount of play in those UJ's or splines, nor indeed in their wheel bearings. The UJ's are floppy though, and I suspect that with new UJ's and the splines freshly greased with moly-lithium - they would have been much smoother and quieter too.  New hubs could have been bought separately. 

CV joints or UJ's .?   By design, a pair of CV joints ought to offer smoother telescopic-articulation than a spline & UJ's  ..of comparable quality.  The CV joints used on these half-shafts are physically very small though, (by necessity ..to fit within the confines of a TR).. compared to the few front-wheel-drive ones I've had prior experience of.  They are mass production items and I've put my money on trusting that they'll be fine for the power I might ever put through them, even when driven hard and with the car loaded.

Although the original UJ half-shafts have already lasted a handful of decades of reliable use, I decided against buying a pair of uprated UJ half-shafts with coated spline. I guess I was enticed by the prospect of smoothness.   You pay's your money . . . etc

Pete

 

[Pete Lewis]

on the notes about spline lock giving the twitch exiting roundabouts under power that having a similar set up on the 2000 which did 

have the reliable twitch this completely disappeared on fitting poly bushes to the trailing arms so these do compliment the twitch 

many suffer with its not " just " the splines . a soggy rear end helps make it .

if thats any help with the trailing arm rear suspension models    do the easy bit first ( BFG already has these fitted )

Pete

[Bfg]

Nothing from me for a week !

..yep I haven't been out in Katie  since the short test-drive subsequent to my replacing her half-shafts.  The traffic around here, especially at the weekends and anywhere near shops seems to have quadrupled.. what a weird world we live in.  That, and many of the historic sites I'm interested in visiting are closed ..from November onwards - I've instead had an eye on each day's weather forecast, for when I could get on with (outside) painting under the boat. 

In the meantime.., when the forecast expected wet, I got on with clearing out many years of stores from under the boat, a situation I made worse when forced to move home at short notice. . . 

  

^ I'm not someone to throw something away until I know I won't need it - the space underneath the boat / between the hulls looked like this.

^ I finally got it down to an anchor, a barrel of wood, paint supplies and a tall work trestle.

After, grit-blasting to remove the old and flaking anti-fouling (almost 4mm in places) I'd fitted a skirt around the boat - so that rain water would drip off that rather than run down and under the hull.  The objective was to allow the hull's fibreglass to dry out properly, not least because she is a 50 year old boat and was last osmosis treated in 1995.  After Katie  was back on the road, I set to sanding the under-water hull and painting it with two coats of epoxy primer. I then filled any imperfections with epoxy filler and applied another two coats of epoxy primer, sanding down inbetween each. The white line beneath the blue strip was painted back in with two-pack gloss white paint., and then it was all left to cure for a while ..until last week. 

  

^ Inbetween forecasted rain, and taking advantage of the still mild temperatures, I masked up the waterline and painted on two coats of interlayer / barrier / sealer  ..a waterproof coating that is also a tie-coat for the anti-fouling paint going onto epoxy.   That was Jotun's Vinyguard Silvergrey 88, and it went on very nicely indeed. Such a pleasure to work with - that I'll try it on steel to see if I can use it on the cars.

Only the anti-fouling to go on now..  I'm using Jotun's SeaForce 30M which is a copper oxide based product generally for commercial use.  

To those who know boat maintenance, to apply anti-fouling at this time of year would seem pretty odd, but I've just been allocated a berth for next year in the marina (Fox's - Ipswich) and I can't afford to miss it.  The wider beam of a catamaran (14ft in this case) doesn't fit well into most marinas - whose pontoons are economically spaced to take two mono-hulls, typically 10 to 12 ft beam maximum.

So, run with the opportunities as they arise. .

The met-office weather forecast for Ipswich, this coming week, is that the temperature will plummet - so I was getting desperate ..as to when I might get this painting done.  If I miss this break in the weather then quite plausibly - it may not be until March or April before we get dry and mild weather together at the same time. 

Today.. job finished ..re-masking and one coat on yesterday, and a second layer of anti-fouling done today.

The boat, Barbara-B  (named after me mum) now has a beautiful red bottom again. . .

  

^ awkward, but very careful masking, just a mm or two above the grey tie-coat layers.

^ at last, peeling off the masking tape (as soon as the painting was done) and the waterline edge looks good.

^ Today's daylight was depressingly dull all day, so that even at its brightest I needed lights under the boat to see what I was doing. 

But, my mood this evening, having got that finished, is bright and shiny 

..well I say finished..I still have to jack the boat up, move the supporting blocks and then paint under the keel in those four places.  But compared to reaching up, or down under, to roll heavy and dull paint, for four hours solid each time - that's nothing. 

I think I'll take a day off tomorrow !

Pete

[1969Mk3Spitfire]

Barbara-B is looking good with her new red antifoul, @Bfg Good to read that you have a berth awaiting, they are becoming scarce, especially for beamy cats. What sailing plans for next season?

I like to visit my boat once per month when she’s on the hard and usually travel by train (Manchester to Glasgow). Due to go next week but no trains available thanks to their industrial strife 😢

[Bfg]

^  Thanks. I like to see a little of red, white and blue.  I just hope this Jotun's anti-fouling works well.   No sailing plans for next season, but for getting the boat in the water, and re-commissioned.   Lots need to happen; systems, rudders, re-rigging, possibly new mast, and very probably new sails, as well as trying to get the outboard serviceable after 14 years of sitting there, so again possibly a new motor.  All in all lots of time and money to be poured in. 

 

Having taken last Monday off  I went back across town to the boat on Tuesday  ..to move her blocks and paint those previously inaccessible patches underneath.

The one side went well . . .

   

^ The huge wooden blocks that hold the boat off the ground and level are under Barbara-B's  timber keels.  After epoxy priming the accessible bits under the keel, I had moved the supporting blocks, on this side, from near the ends to nearer the middle so that I could then get underneath to also epoxy under those places.  On Tuesday I wanted to move the blocks back again to also paint the barrier coat and anti-fouling.  The 3-ton low-profile, high-lift trolley jack I bought last year to work on Katie, my Triumph TR, was well up to the job of lifting just one side of a 30ft / 3-ton catamaran up.

However.. lifting her port side (left) hull didn't happen nearly as easily . . .

  

Although I have a stack of tools and fastenings spare parts in the bilges of this hull, the weight would still have been well within the capabilities of this trolley jack. Not so..  it lifted it a bit and then failed.  One of the two 'quick action' pistons refused to come back up again and then the jack wouldn't lift more than perhaps a ton. Fortunately I had my 20+year old cheapo 1-ton trolley jack in the back of the Chrysler, which managed to lift the hull just a little more, and then the new(ish) jack managed to get the last 1/4" I needed to move the supporting blocks along. Rather than being a one lift operation, it happened in something like six stages .. of lifting and moving one block at a time and then moving the jacks, but in the end it was successful.   

Naturally it was quite frustrating for what should have been a two minute job to take the best part of three quarters of an hour of scrabbling around on my knees, on stony ground.  And of course disappointing that such a useful and supposedly professional  tool should have failed to deliver after just 18 months of infrequent light use.  Not trusting Chinese quality, I'd deliberately bought this one from CJ Auto's, who are well respected for their classic car lifts and body-shell rotisseries (rather than buying from an e-bay package trader), and yesterday phoned them to see what they might suggest. Having spoken to the nice lady who answered the phone I'm now waiting to hear from their manager.     

   

This is all I needed to get to, under the keel. to scrape the remains of the old (blue) anti-fouling off and to paint it.  On this side all I could do was to clean it up and then leave it to dry out ..with a bubble-wrap open-bottomed skirt masking-taped above and around it to prevent rain water running down under.   The weather here is forecast icy cold but reasonably low humidity, so hopefully it will dry out over the next couple of weeks. 

Under the starboard-side keel, because I'd already epoxy-primered it - it was dry, so I could get on and have now applied the barrier-coat paint.

Job done, as far as I could.  

But while I had that paint out (which looks very much like Hammerite smooth) I wanted to try it on steel . . .

This 2" square box section tube had been sitting out in the weather for a couple of years and so I wire brushed an area of the surface rust off one face before painting. I also painted a second uncleaned face ..just to see how well they each fair through the winter weather.

A short day's efforts, so I stopped in the marina for a cup of coffee with my mate Steve before heading home via the grocery store and then Tool-Station.  I wanted, and got, a 6" single-handed / quick-action g-clamp in the form of an Irwin Quick-grip for use when I fit the roof panel on Katie. This requires my squeezing it hard-sideways against its neoprene weather seal, as I put the rear fastening in, and the one-handed clamp makes it much easier.

On Tuesday night was our local TSSC (Triumph club) meeting, so I pulled Katie  out into the drizzly rain (no roof panel is needed in such light rain) and enjoyed an evening with friends.  The drive home was dry and 'quite' cool.  No-one else in the club came in their Triumph, let alone in an open-top car, on the December evening in the rain.  They don't know how just 'sensible' that makes them all seem !    ..whereas I enjoyed using the car (she's much warmer than my motorcycle) in the fresh night air 

Pete

[Bfg]

hello.. Its too cold to do any epoxy or painting on the boat, and too cold for me to work on the car, or trailer, in the polytunnel. So this week I'm hibernating with a monstrous, authoritative but difficult to read, book on The English Castle 1066-1650  by John Goodall.  Everyone to their own eh ! 

Unfortunately the old cottage I now rent (the downstairs of) is both cold and damp, with night storage heaters &/or mobile electric radiators.  Even with just heating the one room I'm in, is I think going to cost a a king's ransom this winter ..and so I thought I'd share with y'all a purchase just made < here >.  It's a desiccant dehumidifier, and not cheap but is pretty quiet and of relatively low power consumption.  It was enthusiastically recommended to me, by my friend Steve, who lives on a sailing boat down in Fox's marina ..which is very much more damp and cold than here - he's just bought one and after just 90 minutes the humidity in his boat's cabin has dropped from 90% to 55%   He tells me that his old dehumidifier wouldn't get it down that low even after 9 hours. 

Aside from the debilitating discomfort, humidity on the windows and walls, being unable to dry bedding and clothes (..and the salt and pepper grinders being too damp to work !) I relate being cold and damp with the arthritis my dear ol nan was crippled with.  I don't want that. 

£175 is a lot of money, but if feeling dry saves on the power presently being consumed by the electric heaters, then it may pay for itself over the nest four months. This sort of unit is small enough to be portable to go from one room to another, to use in the boat and even to sit inside the Triumph, in the polytunnel under its car cover (with drain pipe led out). I'll let you know how I get on with it in a couple of day's time. 

Pete

p.s.  I ordered it with inclusive of 2-day delivery from the Marine superstore, which cost £5 more than Steve paid from Fox's chandlery (who are hoping for new stock next week)..

   

[Bfg]

 

 

 

[Bfg]

After two weeks of my working on the boat and then another two weeks of freezing weather, over here in Suffolk we're back to sunshine and mild temperatures - so doors could be opened again, plants can go back out into the fresh air, and like so many households - in preparation for Christmas.. washing had to be done.

It's too damp to finish my painting the anti-fouling under the boat's keels, so today I opted to work on Katie.  My most recent trips out, first to Norwich and then to our local TSSC meeting highlighted two electrical faults which each need to be urgently addressed. One was that the indicator's tell-tale light sometimes continue to flash when the indicators are cancelled, and the other being the windscreen wipers only work a couple of swipes and then stop ..and despite fiddling with the switch will not resume.  When I got in after the club meeting I tried again, but this time I manually helped the wiper arm to move. It then swept the windscreen.  From having gone through the wiring connections, I know that both the indicator and the wiper switches are 'iffy. My good friend Rich has used spares which I had hoped to pick up from him at the last meeting ..but I didn't make it. 

In any case I'd not yet checked the wiper motor, nor lubricated the cable mechanism, so that's what I started on this afternoon. . .

    

^ Katie's  wiper motor installation.  I wanted to remove it completely so after recording the wiring connections ; I removed those, I undid the large nut which attaches the drive cable, removed the hex-head set-screw with its big washer, you can see, which attaches the motor's black mounting bracket to the bulked shelf, and two set-screws ..reached from inside the car (under the dashboard).  Those three set-screws each have captive nuts, but on this car - the one on the bulkhead-shelf took a 10mm ring-spanner and the two inside - a 7/16" socket.  With the wiper arm's lifted off, so their drive-spindles can freely rotate, the wiper motor with its spiral cable can be withdrawn, leaving the cable's outer sleeve conduit and the wiper's wheel boxes in place and undisturbed.

^ The wiper motor's gearbox top-cover has four set screws (1/4" AF socket) which when relieved give access to the worm-drive from the motor, and the crankshaft which operates to push and pull the drive cable to the wiper-arms.  I was pleasantly surprised to see that it was not caked up inside, with 50-year-old grease, as has been every other classic car wiper motor I've pulled apart.

The drive cable had a hard kink though, just where it went into the wiper motor, so I bent that straighter by hand. Then, very carefully, I prised the little-end pin of the crankshaft up and out of the cable's end. The greasy drive-cable was put to one side, but again I was happy to see the grease on it wasn't at all hard-caked.

The (sorta of reddish) wire from the motor to the gearbox's top cap is for the wiper's parking. Its rubber insulation is cracked through in several places and so will be replaced.  I cut the wire near the cap's connection - I'll un-solder it anon, but in the meantime it meant that the gearbox top-cover could likewise be set aside.

  

^ After some cleaning up, around the outside, to prevent grime from getting inside, I removed the motor's two end-cap hex-head (long) set-screws for access to the motor's brushes.  I've seen very much filthier and the brushes are serviceable, but one electrical connector was rusty and the armature was not exactly shiny copper clean. 

 

^ with the parking wire to the gearbox cover cut, the motor's field-winding can be withdrawn (with the wire) from the gearbox. The armature's worm-drive can then be pulled out / unwound from the crank-wheel. Beware the armature brushes, the two insulation T-eyes (orangy colour) and the tiny spring, which can drop out once the armature is removed.

^ Turning the armature in my fingers, I used a scouring pad (wrapped around the copper contact surface) to clean it up.

^ next up was to clean the crud out from inside the field winding, to visually check things were in good order, and again I used the scouring pad to clean the contact faces onto which the contact brush arms seat.   

All in all, a little fiddly and time consuming, and before you know it.. the daylight had gone. 

I thought better of faffing around like a blind mouse, so packed up and made myself a cuppa tea ..and washed my hands before emptying the washing machine.  A bachelor's work never ends 

I hope to replace that wire, and finish this off tomorrow.

Cheers, Pete

 

 

[Jase1969]

Catching up with your thread, TR looking good.

 

 

[Bfg]

^ Very Nice Jase, I do like the combination and the colours. 

 

Wiper motor reassembly ;

Before I reassembled the wiper motor I thought to clean out the back corner of the bulkhead shelf, which is usually inaccessible because of the wiper motor being in the way. It all went well, but then I noted some bloom ..further forward, and so added a little paint over that to smooth things off again .. unfortunately (or whatever word you might imagine I exclaimed !) that last patch ended up looking like this . . .

 

^ Not much I could do about it in the cold and damp, so I've left it for another day.  I want to flatten and redo the rest of these shelves anyway which show hand-painting brush marks. 

^ moving onwards and, hopefully this time, forwards.. the component parts were cleaned and tarted up ready for reassembly.Thankfully there were no tell-tale smells of burning from either the field coil or the armature. 

The armature, worm drive end, was reassembled into the gearbox and the field-winding carefully positioned over the armature (sans brushes). The armature bearings were lighty coated with moly-lithum grease, and I smeared the tongs on the ends of the bush arms with Vaseline, as they are an electrical contact. The commutator end of the brushes were of course left dry. 

 

   

The brush arms were then reassembled, and the fibreboard fitted (behind the new red wire) which helps prevent the arms coming apart while the tensioning spring is fitted (blue arrow) ..or should that spring break at any time.  It's fiddly holding the two insulation T-eyes in place and then hooking the spring into each hole, but it went easily enough thanks to a decent pair of needle nose pliers inherited from my father.  Of course one needs to be careful that the spring goes right through each hole rather than just hooking on.

   

^ alternative views. The first hopefully clarifies my point about the fibreboard holding the end of the arms onto their contacts (which I'd smeared with Vaseline), and the second showing the brushes sitting against the now cleaner commutator.   Note the red wire turns quite tightly to clear the end cap ..yet to be fitted but which projects further down than the terminal connectors. The wire's tail-end leads through a hole in the motor's other end, which is cast as part of the gearbox casing.   Don't forget to refit the earth connector, which fits under one of the end cap's long screws (just seen in the piccies below)

^ the end of the drive-cable was refitted, under the crankshaft's little end pin. before the (now pretty) gearbox top cover could be refitted. The red wire was cut to length and its tail-end soldered to the (park mechanism's) connector on the cap.   I'd powered up / checked the wiper motor operated and the gearbox functioned correctly before refitting it. 

Refitting the drive-cable back into its outer sleeve (undisturbed still on the car) was sticky-finger messy from the copious amounts of moly-lithium grease I wiped into the drive-cable's spiral winding.

  

^ all back together again.  Shame about the paint on this bulkhead, but all in all it is looking prettier and now works.

As I said above ; it seems slow when checked I'd reassembled it straight, but subsequent to a new connector and a new earth (at the switch) its now OK and seemingly good to go.  Checking and re-lubricating the wiper motor was on my job list, so another item ticked off  

I bid you a warm and comfortable Christmas,

Pete

 

 

 

 

[Bfg]

Saturday

Question for anybody ~ re. Electrical fault ? ~ indicator warning light continued to flash when the switch is off ..and the indicators themselves are off.  

I disconnected the feed (G/N) wire to the indicators (at the bullet connector from the switch) while I was playing around with the wiper motor, and now that I've reconnected it - the indicator warning light fault is no longer there.  Can anybody suggest where the fault might have been ?    Aside from the standard indicator wiring  Katie  is fitted with Bob's Hazard warning lights (..as illustrated below) and the lamps are each fitted with LED bulbs.  The wiring under the dash is pretty secure, and presently the indicators and the hazard warning lights each work fine.

Thanks in anticipation, Pete

Reply from Rob H on the TR Forum

" Well Pete, for the pilot to flash it obviously means the indicator relay was running. The only way it can do that is for there to be a  current drain to earth on the L terminal. Usually it is the current drawn by the lamps that does this.  If the indicator switch is off  there should be no link to the lamps so there must have been something else taking current and the suspicion must lie with the wiring to the hazards switch. Perhaps there is a whisker of wire somewhere that was earthing out but has now been disturbed ? "

Reply from Rob on the TR Forum 

" If you are using the LED compatible flasher unit from Classiccarleds, then it is quite normal to get 1 extra flash on the dash bulb after the indicators are off. "

 

Me on Saturday at 4pm ..

There's not a lot of wiring to go wrong under there. The bullet are all soldered and this connector is just a few inches from the relay (screwed onto the side of the TR4's face vent), and the wire from the indicator switch goes straight into that connector. The hazard switch is not much further away (it is fitted into the bracket which was originally used for bonnet release cable).  

With the engine running a faster than tickover,  ie. full 12v power, the indicator warning light now does flash an extra one to one-and a half after the switch and indicators are off.

I was just about to pull steering column indicator switch out and see if I can see a fault inside that, but the fault has gone away again even when the engine is rev'd.  That's a nuisance.. as I now cannot hope to find it.    

Pete

4:45pm

Faults back again, so now working by torchlight I pulled the indicator switch and played around twisting the connectors on it etc, to no avail.   

 

I'll take it as being normal then, as there are not 2-3 extra flashes.   As before when the indicators or hazards are switched on - the warning light behaves correctly.

Pulling the 'L' connnector off the flasher stops it and the indicators working.

Just in case, I added an external earth wire to the relay's bracket, and it made no difference. The fault remains. 

Could it be a fault within the flasher unit that responds to engine vibration ?

It's now 5-o'clock so I guess I'd better pack up for this evening. Starting the car every ten minutes won't earn me any neighbourly friends. 

I was very careful when I soldered the connections onto the tiny hazard warning switch, but I'll pull it out and see if I can find a fault in those connections. It'll be a job for tomorrow.

Thanks Bob and Rob - I appreciate your thoughts.

Happy Christmas Eve,

Pete

- - -

Today . . .

Yesterday I'd pulled out the steering column switches and decided the wires were all too tightly squeezing back into the aluminium shroud. The wires' insulation is hardened and in places cracked so after straightening out the suspected-to-be-the-guilty-party (.. the indicator wires into the back of the switch) and a good brushing clean with carb cleaner & wiping dry with clean tissue - I coated them in liquid electrical tape.

       

^ drying that insulating / plastic coating with the warmth of a candle on Christmas day.

Regarding the too tight shroud (for the number and routing of wires)... Today I pulled the steering wheel and eased the steering column outer sleeve so that I could turn it for access to easing out the wire's through-routing. . .

          

^ When going through the wiring earlier in the year, I'd already eased a bit of the cowling away (first photo, red arrow) but I decided today that it was still far too tight, and unnecessarily so, as the switches are hidden under a plastic cowling anyway.  2nd photo shows how much further I've now taken it.  This then gives ample room for the overdrive switch' wires (..which happens to be the switch I'm now using for the headlamps main / dip beam) as well as the wires for the indicators.   I similarly opened up the orifice underneath this cowl where the wire come out of the cowl before heading under the dashboard.

Pulling all the wires out was a faff..  but all-in-all I think useful - as I don't like vehicle wiring to be unnecessarily pinched together, especially through places where there's no room for anti-chafe grommets. 

Job done and all put together again, wires reconnected and checked to work correctly etc..

 

^ Test drive on a pleasantly dry & mild Boxing Day afternoon suggests that the issue I had, with the indicator-warning-light continuing to flash when turned off - has, for the time being at least, gone away.

The likely fault was as Rob suggested, was that the indicator relay was inadvertently being earthed ..other than when switched.  And that would have been the wire from the relay to the switch - perhaps only-just (hence it's flickering) shorting out against the pressure die-cast switch body or perhaps even the aluminium steering column shroud. It certainly wasn't obvious to see but then possibly the electrical fault was via tracking across dirt particles.? 

Either way, it now works as it should (one flash extra after the indicator switch is turned off), as do the windscreen wipers, all the lights and horn, etc.  Success.  

Bidding you a good evening and a pleasant holiday.

Pete

[Peter Truman]

Good solution like you Pete I wasn't happy with the tightness of the column mounted overdrive stalk wiring thro the column bottom long shroud it was all so tight so I removed it and reverted to a dash mounted overdrive switch with indicator light, so I now have a new overdrive column stalk and overdrive binnacle spare, I must learn how to sell on ebay?

I had an interesting issue with my std Lucas Hazard push  pull switch, I had brought a pack of dash warning LED bulbs lights so I changed the incandescent indicator bulb in the Hazard switch, didn't work replaced the LED with the incandescent it worked, tried another LED didn't work went and had a coffee and digestive whilst looking at a spare Hazard switch, then realised the source power wire to the bulb was black, funny black is earth??, it suddenly dawned on me the indicator bulb is negative source and case positive!! hence the LED wouldn't work, Doh, I must be getting old.

So there are two indicator bulbs where LED's are a no no, the red Ignition light and the Hazard Flasher, the Ignition as the bulbs load affects the Alternation rev's cut in, and LED's have a minimal load, vs incandescent 2.2W

 

[Bfg]

On 26/12/2022 at 21:38, Peter Truman said:

Good solution like you Pete I wasn't happy with the tightness of the column mounted overdrive stalk wiring thro the column bottom long shroud it was all so tight so I removed it and reverted to a dash mounted overdrive switch with indicator light, so I now have a new overdrive column stalk and overdrive binnacle spare, I must learn how to sell on ebay?

Hey Peter,

I changed from using the column's left hand stalk for the lights, to having a dashboard mounted (TR4) three-position (off / side lights / main headlamp) light switch. With Katie being RH drive.. that light switch is fitted on the right of the steering column, next to the face vent.   And so I now use the LH column switch for the overdrive ..handy being near the gear-change.    What used to be the overdrive (two-position) switch on the RH side of the column, is now used for main and dip beam headlamps. That is conveniently just next to the TR4 dashboard light switch. In practice this switch layout is more intuitive for me, despite it being the other way around on my Chrysler Voyager.  I've removed the foot operated main / dip beam switch, which in turn gives me a tad more toe space for my left foot, at rest.  

Pete

[Bfg]

Tuesday  my old college buddy, Chris, came up from Winchester to visit me for a couple of days.  Of course he was late getting up here ..blaming heavy traffic around the M25 and up the A12 - which we all know is a preposterous excuse.  Anyway we didn't do much, save going out for supper, to the Sorrel Horse, and then back home to watch Appoloosa  ..along with enjoying a decent bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon. 

But he wasn't going to get away without doing some jobs, so on Wednesday morning, correct to forecast of rain all day, I enlisted his help with one of my old bikes, from the storage container so that I might ride it home. . .

^ let me introduce to you my dear old Sunbeam S8'Nudge ' (1953) and formerly my daily rider.  But due to circumstances, she was last used at the beginning of December 2021.  The tyres were mostly deflated, the petrol stale and the battery flat ..but after a few priming kicks she started for me.  Chris, seen above, is a motorcyclist too - but without 'the knack', which comes with familiarity of the type, he struggled.   

I rode the bike back the five or so miles back home with Chris following up in my Chrysler.  Man .. did I enjoy that ride ..despite the light drizzle, it was fun.  The plan is to use her again as my 'daily ride' ..mostly for just popping out around town.  

Mature cheddar with onions and black pepper on wholegrain toast thereafter followed, and then off to the marina - because Chris likes to see what progress I have, or haven't made, in recommissioning the boat.  

^ looking distinctly boat-project-neglected in the dull wet weather, Chris was kind enough to appreciate the fresh anti-fouling.  On board we conversed over what I might best do with her dull teak bulkheads.  He's suggesting a sheet covering of shower-thickness Formica as an easy-to-wipe-clean surface,  but I suspect that would be whole lot of work (templating and careful cutting and then edge trimming) as well as expensive.  So I'm still in favour of just slapping a coat of paint on them.  We'll see..

I've next to prepare Barbara-B  for a survey ..for sake of in-the-water insurance.  But as I've made so many modifications to standard - I fear that may not be so easy, unless I can find an inspector with a sound understanding of engineering materials.  Hey ho, I'm sure we'll muddle through.

In the meantime . . .

^ I thought it prudent to totally remove the small solid-fuel (smokeless-coal) burner I'd designed and made ..simply to avoid a lengthy conversation about it &/or its installation's safety standards - which I've exceeded but are primarily for inland-waterway boats (as I cannot find any specific regulations regarding such a stove on a sailing catamaran).

Another concern was the boat's old cooker, which doesn't have thermal couples to turn off the gas ..should the flame blow out.  The cooker is perfectly serviceable, but donkey's years old, and after a visit for advice from Simon in Fox's Chandlery about retrofitting such gas-cut-offs, I suspect I'll have to bite the bullet and replace it.

Moving on, to a coffee shop, and then home for a curry supper and film watching. The latter Chris chose was the classic Stanley Kubrick's - 2001 A Space Odyssey  ..which in turn was followed by a late-night discussion over brandy, regarding whether Hal (the computer) was sentient or just else a programmed intelligence ?, what were its motives for murder ?, and whether the mistake was actually a mistake or deliberate ?, and the difference between instinctive nature and learned programming or sociology.?   Why do we go there at that time of night ! ?

Yesterday, on Thursday afternoon, after an English breakfast and Chris heading off, back down south, I took Katie  out in the, again correctly forecast, fabulous mild and sunny weather.  We again drove across to Framlingham castle, not least because they were open and had a coffee shop.  Katie didn't mind about either, but I did !

 

^ It was a good drive, and the first countryside outing in the car since fitting the new half shafts.  After being diverted TomTom found us some nice little lanes to wind   wade our way through !

^ there's always a king's welcome at Framlingham

 

^ But there was a darned cool breeze up on those battlements.  Still the view is nice.

 

^ And as always I came away cleverer than when I arrived. 

^ One of the problems with castles is that their very high walls, without windows, make for very long shadows. This photo taken at 3:05 pm on a bright and sunny day, barely illustrates what it must have been like to live within those thick cold wall - through the winter months. 

^ driving home before 5pm and it was really too dark for my camera to record much more than an abstract image.

Thankfully Katie's indicator warning light is now behaving itself, and Katie 's H4 headlamps are good and bright, as indeed now are all the LED side lights and indicators.

The last Thursday of each month is (one of) the TR Register's East Saxon's group meetings, which was usually held at The Alma, Copford, near Colchester, but last night we tried another nearby pub/restaurant - The Cricketers, Spring Lane, Fordham Heath, Colchester CO3 9TG.   Although we had just three TR's ..all TR4/4A's including Katie - the turn out of members was a good number.  Things are new and so perhaps many of us were guilty of not circulating as much as we might, I think we all had a pleasant evening.  I treated myself to a spiral of Cumberland sausage on a bed of mash potato, with with I specifically ordered fried onion with the gravy.. and it was deliciously wholesome, and pretty good pub value at under £13. 

Rich C-R very kindly found and passed onto me from fellow club member Leda - a TR4/ 4A/5 boot luggage rack ..which I'd been wanting for Katie,  specifically to stow my removable half-section of Surrey roof on.  I designed and made it to fit inside the car, on the shelf behind the seats, or else within the boot - but as & when I go away for the weekend or longer - then I'll want those more convenient places for luggage.  Aside from being the only Christmas present i got, it was by far the best !  A very BIG THANK YOU to Leda for that rack. It's just what I wanted.

My next club meeting is with the TSSC Suffolk group, which meet on the first Tuesday of each month at the Sorrel horse, Barham, IP6 0PG, on the 3rd January. 

Hopefully we'll have nice weather for that too..  Be glad to see you there.

Pete

 

[Bfg]

Suffolk Polytunnel News ..  Stop-Press Friday afternoon ~ Greetings To All, and a Triumphant  New Year..  

Time has flown by - It seems as if 2022 was just last week. 

 

      

^ Up in the air again.  Following a conversation with Colin Wake - good man, and AO of the TSSC Suffolk group, who meet at the Sorrel Horse, Barham, on the first Tuesday of each month.  He - in reply to my asking about Katies  brakes binding in reverse, and also still a clonk when I pull away (sometimes) ..despite new CV jointed half shafts now being fitted - he wondered if the rear brake shoes had possibly been fitted the wrong way around.?  

 

 

^ I looked it up in the Triumph TR4/4A workshop manual ..as my experience of brake-shoes on motorcycles was that they couldn't be fitted a wrong way around ..and I found that if replacement brake-shoes had the hole for the handbrake lever (see detail at top of the illustration) in each shoe - then such an error could easily happen.   Worth watching out for, especially if someone has at any time mixed and mis-matched them.

I also checked back to the photographs (second photo above) I'd taken when I un-seized the handbrake adjusters < here >.   I hadn't removed removed the brake shoes at that time, but the brake shoes had been fitted the correct way around by the prior owner. 

Nevertheless, I'd bought new brake shoes - Thanks again to Rich C-R who has helped me out so many times with spares and advice which I wanted to fit. And I wanted to swap the cast-iron brake drums for the aluminium finned Alfin types I'd bought via the classified section of the TR forum ..a long while ago. . .

 

^ the primary reason for wanting to swap these, was not because I required better brake cooling, but because I hoped the Alfin type (although pre-owned) would be better balanced.  I'd noted this issue with a brand new motorcycle rear-brake drum, whose cast iron rim and case were surprisingly off true ..and so couldn't possibly have been in balance when spinning. 

Of course even if true and balance when new, things can change over xx number of years, and the detail photo above shows how the rim of these old drums is obviously not round. Most likely it had rusted (unevenly) and been cleaned off, possibly many times over the years.  With a lathe it would be easy to true up again, but I don't have one. 

 

^ Aside from the shoe's linings being half worn, there's nothing obviously wrong here. Their wear is good & even - so the sliding adjuster has worked well enough.  The brake shoes retaining clips are also in place.        ^^ New shoes versus the old. Note - although these are not top-brand shoes, the square holes for the handbrake lever (top left) is only on the one shoe, and so neither old nor new shoes could have be assembled the wrong way around.  Note also the orientation of the springs and how they hook onto the shoes differently top and bottom.

 

^ the slave cylinder has to be free to slide in its slot - so as the brake-shoes wear, the cylinder remains central.  I'm using an old kitchen knife to work a smear of moly-lithium grease inbetween the back-plate and the slave cylinder. I did this all around the cylinder, on both sides of the back-plate. In the second photo you can see a slot (a hollow) cast into the mating face of the slave cylinder which allows grease to be worked in. 

Naturally grease should not be used in excess - for fear of it ending up on the friction surface of the brake shoes or on the inside face of the drum. 

Reassembling brake shoes, and getting their springs on - can be darned fiddly (annoying) and something I used to have difficulties with ..so to those who know well how to do it - please excuse my illustrating to the less experienced how I proceed . . .

 

^ Firstly, with clean hands so you don't get grease on the brake pads, hook the shoe's top spring into the pair of shoes. It's the longer of the two springs, and it goes in from behind (see above  note re. old -v- new shoes ).  Then altogether (the two shoes with their top spring) feed the spring behind the hub plate and carefully locate the forward-most* shoe's square hole onto the handbrake arm and the shoes top heel into the slot in the slave cylinder's piston. (* LH shoe on the LHS of the car, and RH shoe when working on the RHS rear brake). 

This is shoe is located first, and carefully, so as to avoid damage to the rubber boot on the slave cylinder.  As you can see the rear-most shoe is not yet fitted in place and is overlapping the slave cylinder ..this to allow some slack in the spring, for easier fitting of the forward-shoe around that rubber.  Once the forward-most shoe is securely in its slot / in place, then the top of the rear-most shoe can be pulled back and fitted into the back end of the slave cylinder.  The handbrake lever together with the spring's tension will hold the shoes in place, while the bottom spring is fitted . . .

^ the bottom spring hooks in from behind, and again I hooked one end into the forward-most shoe first.  I then firmly poked a pair of long nose pliers into the hole to stop it popping out again.   The rear-most shoe can be pulled forward, overlapping the bottom adjuster, to ease the tension on the spring as its end is hooked into that shoe.  Then the heel of the forward-most shoe can be located into the adjuster, followed by pulling the rear-most shoe back to locate that.  

That's the awkward part done.  

^ Then fit the brake-shoe retainer pins, through from behind the back-plate, and held in place with spring clips. These pins help to secure the shoes should one of the springs break &/or otherwise retain the brake-shoes when you next pull the drum off.  The book illustrates those clips orientated this way, so that's what I've done. 

Next up is to refit the drum, but as these pads are thicker than the old half-worn ones, the bottom adjuster needs to be wound out (anti-clockwise) so the brake shoes can move inwards towards the hub (they're pulled in by the springs).  The adjuster's peg is from behind the backing plate and has a 1/4" square drive.  If you don't have the correct tool to hand then you can use one similar to this . . .

^ 1/4" drive for alternative screwdriver bits.  That 1/4" drive nicely fits onto the brake-adjuster peg, and is easily turned with a spanner on the screw-driver bit. The spanner is 1/4" AF.   Easy-peasy and individually useful tools to have in the tool-roll anyway. 

     

^ Alfin type brake drum being fitted. Clearly the prior owner discovered the grub screw holes didn't quite align and so had opened-up the countersunk holes (inwards) a bit.  I tightened the two screws concurrently and the drum seemed to sit fine on the hub centre and studs.  

The brake adjuster was then wound in (clockwise thread) until the brake-shoes drag ( drug ?) when the drum was rotated. Handbrake applied and released to centre the shoes, and the brake shoes readjusted. Turning the brake drum until it felt tightest - pump the brakes and again pull the handbrake on again and release. Final adjustment of the adjuster - so the brake-drum turns freely. 

Job done    ..on this side. 

It got dark again and so I'll do the RH-side tomorrow.

I hope this pictorial may be useful to others, who perhaps like myself, are less experienced in replacing their car's brake shoes.

Pete

[Bfg]

Rear Brakes  - Part 4       ( Part 1 is  < here >  .. Part 2 is < here >,  and Part 3 was posted yesterday (above).

Today, same as yesterday, checking, greasing, replacing the brake shoes and the drum, but on the right hand side. . .

^ RHS rear brakes and first impressions is that the brake shoes are correctly fitted, and the friction material on those shoes was not delaminated.

As yesterday ; I removed the brake shoes and proceeded to ensure that the slave cylinder was lubricated and able to slide back n' forth in its slot. It slid easily enough but then seemed to come against a notch before sliding further. Naturally my first concerns were that the back-plate had worn locally and the slave cylinder was coming against a step in the metal.  I could not feel such a step with the blade of my knife, so I moved to investigate the plates on the reverse side of the backing plate . . .

 

^ with the rubber dust gaiter lifted out of the way, it was clear that something here was wrong (..aside from it being dry of grease).  I have very little direct experience of these Girling Brake's set-up, but it was immediately obvious that each of those plates should be sitting neatly under the slave cylinder.   

I undid the end connector of the handbrake cable ..to gain a little more distance between the arm and cylinder, and pulled the plates out . . .

  

^ The first photo shows the order and orientation as they came out.  ^^ The second photo shows the order and orientation as they should be.  As seen, this is for the RHS, and the handbrake-cable arm would be on the right of each plate.  The LHS brake is the mirror of these.  Note the upturned ends of one plate (red arrow), and also you might just make out that this same plate is also slightly curved ..it is sprung metal.

  

^ Working out the correct orientation is pretty obvious when you see the plates nested together, but the Triumph workshop manual is pretty hopeless in it diagram and makes no mention of their arrangement in the text.    ^^ The Haynes manual has a slightly clearer illustration (bottom RH side of the above daiagram) but again in typical Haynes fashion the accompanying text simply says to "reassemble in reverse order" to its disassembly.

It may not be apparent though why those upturned tabs are so tiny &/or why there is a third plate.  The answer is in the width of groove in either side of the slave cylinder ..into which these plates slot.  They are just wide enough for the middle of the three plates (which is flat) + the bottom  slightly-curved sprung plate ..as its upturned tabs are pushed through the groove.  Once they are located into the notches of the mid plate, the small top plate is fitted ..which is the same thickness as the height of those tabs.

^ In practice, it is easiest to fit the mid-plate first.  It comes in from the forward end, squeezing passed the handbrake lever arm. Then, already greased, the slightly-curved sprung plate - with its upturned tabs facing the mid-plate, is slid under the mid-plate, until its tabs engage in the mid plate (a bit of wiggling around is usually necessary to get them to align and lock together securely).

  

^ The curved sprung plate, pushing against the mid plate, holds the slave cylinder quite well - but the small plate is then fitted into the grooves (again from the front, passed the hand-brake arm) to lock everything tightly in place. The rubber boot fits around / under the wider mid-plate, which neatly retains it. 

Yes, I know..  the quality of my work here is ugly with surface rust, flaky paint, crud and grease.. and that beautifully clean smooth surfaces would be much better.  All I can say is that I didn't feel like doing that now, on this blustery rainy day, in January, in a polytunnel.  I can come back to it anon.

^ Having, corrected the mounting of this sides slave cylinder - and noted its tighter but now smoother movement in the backplate's slot, I got on with fitting the new brake shoes and Alfin type brake drum. 

For those interested in unsprung weight / mass.. my bathroom scales recorded each Alfin drum at 2kg in weight, and the old cast-iron drums at about 2.8 kg.  

 

^ And for those who like the style of the finned Alfin brake drums - here's what they look like behind pressed steel wheels.

Having discovered the error in assembly on the RHS - I went back to the LHS and found that its slave cylinder's sprung-plates had likewise been fitted incorrectly.  I managed to correct them with just the wheel removed and the handbrake cable disconnected ..so its lever tilted further forward.  Even removing the brake drum was not  necessary.

Job done, after checking that all the bolts to the prop / drive-shaft and half-shafts were all correct and tight, Katie  is now off the ramps and back on the ground.   Finishing up around 4pm it was getting dark and wet out so a test drive will wait. I required a cuppa tea !

That's all Folks !

I bid you a good evening tucked up snugly in the warm and dry.

Pete

 

[Bfg]

(Front) Suspension gaffs ..

^ After getting the car back from M&T, subsequent to the chassis change, Katie's  ride height was pretty even all around ..but too high.  For scale the tyres are 165/80-15.

^ After I lowered Katie's  rear suspension by 15 - 20mm (with settling), the front remains high.  So today I set about looking into that and a few other things wrong with the front suspension. I actually don't mind the way it looks, but I'm sure the car's handling would be improved if things were sorted. . .

     

^ it was a rainy and dull day here in Suffolk today, and Katie  was up in the air again.  Actually working on this suspension stuff, road springs, etc.. is all unfamiliar to me. As I said to my friend Rich, aside from the A-series Citroens - I don't remember pulling apart a car's front suspension before.  And I've only ever used a pair of spring compressors which clamped a spring on its outside.  Doing this would be a learning curve for me, so perhaps it is for some of you too.?

^^ The TR4A's in-spring damper is retained by two brackets and four studs at the bottom, and a single stud at the top - with a nut & lock-nut on it.  Remove those nuts, top and bottom, and the damper can be lowered out from below.     ^^^ I then jacked up under the wishbone's bottom trunnion to compress the road-spring.  As you can see - the steering arm, brake and hub each remained untouched.

  

^ I think it was the young Mr Pringle of the East Saxon's TR Registers group who needed and so made a spring compressor for his own car, and while doing so very kindly made a second.. so that may be loaned out within our group. 

The tool comprises of a length of 1/2" all-thread that goes up through the spring and wishbone ..to fit where the damper was.  It has a thick metal bottom plate which was been drilled to fit the damper bracket's studs, and then it also comprises of a few nuts & washers. It's surprising simple, but it does need to be robust to take the spring's fully compressed loads.   

It is fitted from underneath and the adjusted so the top of the thread protrudes 5" or more up into the wheel-arch space.  I greased the top thread so its nut would unwind easier against the road spring's compression. That top nut has two plain washers to slide one over the other, which probably helped too. 

^ The TR's bottom spring-pan is secured by six bolts, through the bottom wishbone arms.  As they are undone - all the spring's compressive force transfers to the spring-compressor.  And then, as the top nut of the tool is unwound, the pan is pushed down by the road-spring.  You'll see that the spring's angle is not the same as the studs through the wishbone, so the pan drags down those until it reaches their ends ..and then it springs outwards under the trunnion.  It's under a huge compressive force so keep fingers well clear.

As I lowered it further, the outside edge of the spring pan slipped down the wooden block and hooked up on the top of my trolley jack.  At that point it still had an inch of spring compression (before the spring's free length was reached, and no more load) - but with a spanner between it and me it prised inwards easily ..and with a twang. 

The full spring length / no compressive load, was reached after undoing the top nut by about 4". 

^ The top nut was then unwound all the way and removed - so the all-thread could be withdrawn through the spring and wishbone, taking with it (on its bottom end) the spring-pan.  As you can see the road-spring stayed put, held into the top cup by the anti-vibration collar.  It was surprising tight, but pulled out. 

Confession time - I borrowed the compressor, but had to modify it   ..to fit the damper bracket's stud pattern on Katie . . .  

  

^ I certainly don't like to alter a borrow tool, but the holes were too close together in the one plane. I wonder if damper bracket's hole pattern on the lower wishbone's spring pan is slightly different between the TR4 and the TR4A / later cars ?  In any case I'll gladly make a new plate to replace this one.

Moving on ...

  

^ Comparing Katie's  original (well at least from when I bought her) front road spring - left in this photo,  with the spring that M&T had fitted (..to level the car which was previously sitting low on the driver's side)  and you'll immediately note that Katie's  original has more winds and slightly thicker wire than M&T's.  Otherwise they are much the same uncompressed length, each at 10-1/4".  

Skinnier / thinner wire might prompt you to think that the spring would be weaker than the more robust looking one.  Like-for-like that would be true, but in this case the skinnier spring's metal is probably what Moss catalogue describes as Silicon Chrome.  The steel used in Katie's  original springs is likely to be of a less springy spec.   

If they had been the same metal and wire diameter, then more windings in a spring's length would be softer.  That may seem counter intuitive but the wire's length (wound-into-a-spring) is greater and so there's more to give than in a shorter length.  The same principle apply but I find it easier to understand this when a spring is in tension ..a longer piece of wire will stretch more than a similar but shorter piece of wire, under the same load.

Theory is all well and good but I tested it . . .

^ 46 kg (101 lb) loading onto the spring compressed Katie's original road spring 17mm, from 260mm (10-1/4") to 243mm (9-9/16").  Repeating the same-load test with M&T's road spring and, in accordance with the theory, it only compressed 9mm to 251mm (9-7/8").

If we were to assume a TR4's 1015kg road weight is approximately 50-50% between axles, and 50-50% between L and RH sides, then we are talking about a static load on each of these springs of around 254kg (..ignoring pre-compression of the spring when fitted).  254kg is 5.52 times the 46kg brick load used in my test.  So, if the spring's compression was linear to load - then changing back to Katie's original springs would be result in a drop in front-axle ride height - approximate to the difference in compression (original -v- M&T springs of the test) x 5.52.  

The difference was 17mm - 9mm = 8mm.  And 8 x 5.52 = 44mm (1.73").    That's probably more than I'm looking to reduce Katie's  front axle ride height by,  but I don't expect the spring rates to be linear to load. We will see.!  However crude the mathematics - they are helpful ..insomuch as do suggest that I ought not reduce the thickness of the spring's anti-vibration collars.  

If that was all I needed to do then I'd have got on with putting the original springs back in.  But I have a few jobs yet to do under here. . .

I continued working for another half an hour, to try & free the seized lower trunnion bolt ..and indeed I made some encouraging progress - but again I decided not to work by torchlight. 

Tomorrow will be soon enough   ..yeah I know - I sorta sound like James Bond ! 

Bidding you a good'n

Pete

 

     

[Bfg]

Following the encouraging progress I'd made on getting Katie's  lower trunnion / fulcrum assembly to loosen - today I started off with this . . .

^ With the road-spring-pan removed from the bottom of the lower wishbone, each leg of the wishbone could (..if they weren't seized onto the through bolt) move a little further away from the others.   As hoped.. the steel spacers within the bushes were not equally seized (as tightly as one another !) onto the bolt, and so with the castle nut reversed and set to be level with the end of the bolt's thread - I could clout its end ..and that achieved a small amount of movement.. the opening up of a gap between the rear wishbone leg and the steering trunnion's upright.   Excellent !

It couldn't however go very far because the bolt was mostly seized into the front wishbone leg (the underside of which can be seen on the RHS of the above photo).  For the wishbones to have enough free movement away from one another, to at least get the rear wishbone leg off the through-bolt, the wishbones inner end would have to be free of the constraints of their chassis brackets..  ie. the whole suspension assembly would have to come off the car. 

Thankfully the design allows the brake caliper to be undone and moved aside without undoing any hydraulic connection.  The caliper is held in place with two bolts, from the inner wheel-arch side, and then there's also a bracket behind there ..to support the hydraulic pipe. That too needs to be released (one nut ..which happened to be missing on Katie ) from a stud into the back of the upright hub assembly.  I hooked the caliper up with wire from two of the wing fastening screws, which project into the top of the wheel-arch.

^ The steering's tie-rod ball-jointed end also has to be released from the hub's steering lever-arm (aka ; tie rod arm).  I've borrowed this breaker tool from my friend Andrew. It's simple to use .. just ease the rubber boot up so that the cast forks of the tool can sit directly onto the end of the lever-arm, tighten its bolt against the bottom thread of the tie-rod's ball joint, and give the bottom of tool's bolt a confidently sharp hit, upwards, with a hammer.  

  

^ Next up I undid the wishbone's bottom inner fulcrum brackets (bolted to the chassis brackets), followed by the top inner fulcrum which is bolted to the top of the chassis' suspension tower in the wheel-arch again.   That was awkward because two of the four bolt threads had been chewed up. I'll need to replace those bolts and see if I can get in there with a tap to clean out the captive nuts in the chassis tower. 

That's it..  the suspension can be lifted off the trolley jack, off the car and out of the wheel-arch ..as an assembly.

^ On the floor and soon to be on the bench where it's easier to work.  With all the cast iron - there's not much that's lightweight on these old TR's.  From this photo you can see how, with the bottom, outer fulcrum's nut removed, the lower wishbone's rear leg might be pulled back ..off the otherwise seized through bolt. 

 

^ all together now  "Three wheels on my wagon and I'm just .... " 

^ with the rear lower wishbone arm removed, I replaced the bottom fulcrum's castle nut (reverse way around again) and tapped (firmly !) the seized bolt out.  

Terrific ! Success !   Hurrah !    

       ..I really wasn't looking forward to trying to cut that size of toughened bolt out.

  

^ after a bit of cleaning up in white spirits, I found the bits mostly serviceable. The dust collars, being so thin a metal, are a bit iffy - but if pushed they could be reused. And the nut & through-bolt, washers, spacer tubes and polybushes are certainly OK.  I have of course ordered new replacements.   

^ It's now no wonder that the suspension creaked and groaned. and that I could barely turn the poly-bushed pin by hand. The tightness of the castle nuts on the upper wishbone's inner fulcrum pin proved difficult.  Holding that cast iron pin wasn't easy, and the force needed to get the nuts undone was chewing up a good work-mate.   This didn't work !   

^ One G-clamp didn't work either, the bench still wasn't strong enough. I had to lock the workmate up with two G-clamps and a thick piece of steel plate to stop that fulcrum pin from turning. I don't know what force was required but you can see the length of extension I used.  The torque setting in the manual (Haynes is easier to find) recommends 26 - 40 lb.ft. for the original rubber bushes. Why such a broad range I do not know. For red-polybushes, which don't flex anywhere nearly as much as rubber, I'll probably use 20 lb.ft.  and if I note bump steer then I'll pinch them all up just a little more.

Once released and dismantled I found the grease inside the bush to be dry.   

Today's weather was very mild this morning but by 3 o'clock it was raining, very blustery and cold ..oh and getting dark. So that was it. and early finish today.

Useful progress has been made and I've now learnt how to dismantle the front suspension. I'm well-pleased that the bottom trunnion / outer fulcrum bolt came out, without a day of cutting and hammering being required.  And I'm similarly glad to have discovered why Katie's  suspension groaned ..it was simply bolted up too flipping tight by far ..or whatever words you may choose to substitute, and then also was dry of lubrication in all the bushes. Changing the bottom wishbone's chassis brackets to the two stud version will give me peace of mind.  And all that added to yesterday's tasks regarding spring stiffness / ride height - I feel that I'm well on the way to getting the front suspension sorted.  It was not a job I wanted to do, and so very much didn't look forward to getting on with, but by God it's happening now !

I bid you a good evening gentlemen.  Thanks to each for your input and advice today - much appreciated 

Pete.

 

p.s. I'll check for typos tomorrow, now is supper time

[Peter Truman]

1 hour ago, Bfg said:

Changing the bottom wishbone's chassis brackets to the two stud version will give me peace of mind.

The small chassis cars have a similar bracket I found one a spare Spitfire front suspension set up I have the chassis brackets where the welded/stamped in bolt/stud was severely corroded, ie wasted so had to replace the whole bracket, on these cars they are also only a one bolt mounting!