That was a year that was..

[Pete Lewis]

if microsoft made a car the pedals would be in the boot 

Pete

[KevinR]

The best I can get out of Invision is that they "officially" support the "last two major releases" of browsers.

And "we don't go out of our way to break things in older browsers either, but if a bug is only present in a particular old browser at this point in time the solution is clear - upgrade your browser"

Which is not particularly helpful.

If one is using an old (unsupported) operating system that particular browser suppliers have dropped support for their browser, then there are two solutions :

1.  Upgrade the operating system to one that can handle a more modern and better supported browser

2.  Change to a browser that is better supported on that old operating system - for example K-Meleon, http://kmeleonbrowser.org/download.php which is kept up to date and suitable for computers that are still running XP.

[Peter Truman]

Thanks Matthew for the update.

I have a little Vietnamese guru IT man who keeps me on the straight and. Narrow!

[Bfg]

Testing, testing, testing, 1234, 54321 .....

I'm almost back.. with BIG thanks to Colin,  TSSC - Suffolk group leader (who meet at the Sorrel Horse, Barham, IP6 0PG  the first Tuesday of each month). Colin has very kindly helped me out with a 20th century computer, running on windows 7 (whereas my old but faithful Dell is still on Windows XP)

Of course, even a replacement computer did not help me find out out to hotspot the internet from my mobile phone. The dastardly passwords hide so cleverly that it's taken me half a day to find them     

..Bottom line is that I can now post on this forum.    I was still able the TR Register, so I don't know why the changes to this website blocked me out, but hey ho, as and when I can get my fingers to work on this keyboard, and my eyes used to the vibrant colours and all the icons of this later version of Windows, I'll come back with a few of Katie's travel-log updates.

All the best for now,

Pete. 

[Badwolf]

Welcome back. You have a lot of catching up to do...and I, for one, look forward to it.

[Pete Lewis]

I managed to work win7  but now on win11 and its got a mind of its own 

for basic users most upgrades seem to go backwards 

if youre some wiz kid fine  but upgrades and dinosaurs  dont always match well 

Pete

 

[Bfg]

I'm not primitive Pete,  I'm well passed using the quill and abacus ..Indeed I'm happy to use a sliderule, even a modern WH Smiths plastic one that I got on my birthday (...some years ago). 

But what fool put a nipple in the middle of this typewriter's keyboard !?   

[Pete Lewis]

Ive still got a slide rule and log tables and me little Zeus  book

unlike your keypad my 2000 only has nipples on the driveshaft and prop  Ha !

good to see youre back online 

Pete

 

[Peter Truman]

Ihave all the above the log tables from my school from my previous life in Aus up to 62, the best thing I have is a circular hydraulic slide rule double sided for calculating flows in pressure pipes and part full drains along with channel flows(aqueducts) it was produced I think by British Steel in the early 70’s a treasured heirloom used daily up to 7 years ago.

Oh I forgot welcome back Pete you’ve been missed with all your classic upgrades extensively explained! Very interesting!

[Josef]

Nice to see you again Pete!

I’m afraid software and operating systems are not too dissimilar from cars. A brand new car is undoubtedly safer to use than say a Herald. The same with software, security is the drive behind requiring upgrades as those with malicious intent become more and more sophisticated. And along with that comes daft stuff that nobody really needs, like the customisable LED door lights on my 2018 Seat Leon and whatever the latest ‘improvement’ Microsoft has decided to throw into Teams!

I work in software development and rest assured even we’re often wound up by some of the ‘progress for the sake of progress’ type stuff that comes along, especially in productivity software like Office. 

[Badwolf]

Lady BW hears screams of dismay from the den. Don't tell me, says she, another Windows update, shall I bring the whisky or the brandy!!??

[PeteH]

That "Surrey" Top looks like a VERY good job. Congratulations on work well done, I followed the "travalils" in it`s progress, and the end result looks well worth the "agro". 👍.

As for computing, I`ve been there (in an Amateur way) since BBC DOS, a Sinclair and a Comadore 64. But it frustrates me when they "forget" that some of us want/need to run "legacy" software.

For example I LIKE my Lotus 123 spreadsheets. Which I originally ran as a DOS version. but getting windows 11 to load it?. No way. I have to run a copy of windows 10 in dual boot to get compatability. I don`t want to pay Microsoft annually for the "Privilege" of using "office".

As for windows continually updating, the worst bit is getting up a 5am and finding it still updating OR just "sat" on the DELL logo wanting a reboot to finish. 😬

Pete

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, PeteH said:

As for windows continually updating, the worst bit is getting up a 5am and finding it still updating OR just "sat" on the DELL logo wanting a reboot to finish.

The thing that really bugs me about it is that I use computers professionally (I'm a software engineer) and VERY OFTEN need to leave things in a working state overnight so I can resume where I left off in the morning. Real operating systems let you do that. Windows 10 just arbitrarily decides to sabotage you, and there's NO WAY to turn this "feature" off.

[PeteH]

The last "windows" that still allowed "YOU" (the owner) to make decisions over what and when you wanted updating, was (I think) win; 7?. After that the best you could have was a 7? day delay, before it took control and arbitarily updated. I have one (older) laptop which has windows 10, in need (allegedly) of an update, but it cannot update as it need more "room" on my hard drive in order to install it`self. So in order for this "Bloatware" to install some questionable upgrade. I have to remove needed stuff. probably onto external drives, for the moment I am ignoring it. I did a disk clean which is not enough?.

Pete

[Badwolf]

I would delete all the unwanted bloatware but lack the knowledge as to whether the uninstall would sabotage stuff that I want to keep. As for legacy software, I have whinged (yes, I know) many times before about no longer being able to run legal bought and paid for software or even some of those useful utility progs that you used to get of the cd that came with computer mags. The only solution is the virtual machine, running XP or similar. Sadly I now lack the expertise to set up a dual boot so just load it up as needed. Still running Office 2003 and a 1996/2000 (free upgrade due to millennium) version of QuickBooks. All paid for but the modern versions are subscription packages. What has changed in word processing (except the English language corruptions!!!) or accounting to warrant paying a fortune for upgrades/subscriptions? A friend of mine is in accounting "use Sage" says he, "Why?" Says I, does it add up differently, or just show more profit on a set of accounts?.....silence ensues!!!

[KevinR]

2 hours ago, NonMember said:

 Windows 10 just arbitrarily decides to sabotage you, and there's NO WAY to turn this "feature" off.

Not true, you can either pause or disable the automatic updates in Windows 10 to suit your needs.

The Automatic update can be paused for up to 35 days in the advanced options in the Windows Update section of Control Panel.

Or you can switch Automatic Updates off completely as follows:

1.  Go to Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Services

2.  Scroll down to Windows Update in the resulting list

3.  Double click the Windows Update Entry

4.  In the resulting dialog, if the service is started, click 'Stop'

5.  Set Startup Type to Disabled

[Badwolf]

I have been through the whole gamut of trying to turn off Windows updates except for security add one. I have been totally unsuccessful as my setting were just ignored so I gave up.....

 unless, of course.....

They have now been updated......by an update!!!!

[PeteH]

13 hours ago, Mathew said:

Hows the car coming along pete? 

It`s "drfited"?.😉

Pete

[Bfg]

On 16/10/2022 at 16:54, Mathew said:

Hows the car coming along Pete? 

funny you should ask that..    Thread drift rather than a TR in a drift ..   I've now finally rediscovered the password to my TR register account ..which was so secret that I didn't know it myself, so the question now is ...should I resume from now, or should I go back and fill in all the gaps since July 3rd - when I last managed to post an update on this forum.?   At that time I was just making the fibreglass Surrey-top for Katie, whereas my more recent posts are more along the lines of a travel-log. 

Pete

 

[Bfg]

. . . I'll quickly catch up by simply copying and pasting from 'the other' forum.  After all it'll only take seconds to skip over those posts or, for anyone who may be interested, just a few minutes to read them. 

Where we left off.. was with my adding a foam beam into the fibreglass Surrey-top lid I was making < here >.  Gareth, on the other forum, commented that "It's more complicated than I thought, when I thought of the roof area I forgot about how to secure it, so all the parts to complete it are adding up." 

To this I replied . . .

" Yes indeed,

Although just the outside skin is seen to the casual onlooker ..who might further venture to note if n' what there might be in way of headlining or interior finish - the success or failure of a hardtop or removable lid panel is in how well it secures & seals against the wind n' weather.  Getting things to fit snugly is not easy when, what it attaches to, both the windscreen and the backlight are in slightly different positions (..between one TR and the next).  Similarly with the door glasses, and the corner gaps between those and the 'fixed' frames.  Triumph's Surrey top was actually quite brilliant for its day insomuch as it both looks great and also mostly works to keep the wet n' wind out. 

Most Design-engineers have never designed a soft-top, or a removable hardtop ..let alone a surrey lid / targa, and so their evolution has been slow.  In many instances Regency-period carriages were better, but of course they didn't have such high wind-velocities / water pressure to be dealt with, nor the fashionable streamlined 'styles' to constrain their efforts.  Larger 1940's - 1970's cars, like Jaguar had lesser problems because their structures and hood frames were heavier built.  For lightweight / economically produced cars, opening-hood & removable-top designs needed a fresh look, which is not something the British car manufacturers were used to doing ..or could afford to take a risk on. 

American, German, Italian and Japanese manufacturers noted the dismal reputation of British soft-top weather and draught-proofing ..and started again, mostly introducing the T-bar .. which fixed and braced that dimensional parameter.    Citroen of course did their own thing with their 2cv and Dyane ..which cleverly benefitted from their door side rails to brace the structure and to land door seals on (interestingly those door's lip seals were fitted to the doors rather than on the door frames).  Most other manufacturers avoided these issues altogether by not offering a convertible version of their cars, particularly so as vehicle structure evolved to monocoque  ..better leave those costs and the warranty headaches to specialist coach-builders.  

The 'obvious solution' to weather-proofing is to make the seals bigger and squidgy, but more often than not - such seals are ugly. There's also the matter of how to best secure those seals, because many seals are not where one part simply pushes up to another ..but rather there's also a bit of scuffing sideways, which can push a seal away from where it is glued or clipped.

A better weather-tight seal is achieved by moving the split line to a place of low pressure, even though visually that can look sorta wrong.  For example, where the front rail of a soft-top hood or a hardtop-panel splits from the windscreen cap rail horizontally, as it does on most British sports cars.. then as the vehicle drives along - the wind n' rain water pushes into its seal.  But when that split line is turned to the vertical, then the lifting air-flow stream over a windscreen results in a low-pressure zone over the roof, whereby any rain water (which is not flung straight over the top) tends to be drawn out of a top seal.  This is why flush-fitting opening sunroof mostly work.  Any rainwater that does get in - is in low pressure zone, and that can be easily drained away.  Of course, if those drains are too small (perhaps for a car wash), or part-blocked, or if the car is parked on a sloping driveway, then water may dribble into the car.

For me to change the design of this windscreen's cap rail and its seal would have been more work still. I'm working with what I have but am making a concerted effort to keep those gaps as tight as practical.  The overhanging front bead of the the Surrey-lid roof will work against my weather-proofing, but I'm leaving it on because its part n' parcel of the car's 1960's style.  Of course my splitting this Surrey top lid into three panels necessitates even more seals (..and awkward corners) where water might get in.  But my real concern is in making the windscreen cap-rail stiff enough to clamp down without curling up at the edges.  Fibreglass is very useful for creating shapes but it's not a rigid material unless cored &/or boxed-in structures are used.  We will see.! 

Pete "

 

[Bfg]

moving on to the 5th July I posted . . .

Yesterday I was working on the boat while the poly-tunnel was closed up in the sunshine to accelerate the resin's curing.

Today I'm back here to see how things pan out . . .

^ starting off with removing the hardboard formers, used to make the panel's inside flanges.  The little white piles of dust are from drilling indexing / locating holes.  And then things started to happen . . .

^ the lid's box section T-beam is being bonded to the fibreglass windscreen and backlight cap rails. I used GRP filler paste for that and of course weighted the lid, still in it's mould, down.  Then I had lunch. 

By which time I decided to get straight on and release the mould off the lid moulding . . .

^ starting in the middle (the flattest part of the shape) I prised the edge of the mould up and slipped in a first thin batten of wood.  Working from that to the side I slipped in a long thin batten, and further worked that towards the lid's gutter.  Pushing that in (over the stiffer curved shape over the doors) released the gutter, and so I then managed to slip in a thin piece of wood in along the front and worked that to the centreline.  Over to the other side, I started again at the back and inserted a batten along that side working my way forward. 

^ Then with all the edge released, the mould was easily lifted off.  

   

^ the flatter part of these side panels is just a layer of surfacing tissue and one layer of 300g/m chopped strand mat, so it's very thin and nicely translucent (bright inside the car). It is after all just to keep the rain off my bald patch !  Heavy rain will be like dropping onto a drum though.

So finally having a roof, what did I do next ? 

                                                         I chopped it up . . . 

 

  

^ Starting with a hacksaw (front and rear edges) from the inside gave me cut lines to align the masking tape to, so that I could use a powered jig-saw.

 

^ Btw., there are blades for cutting grp ; without teeth, but with an abrasive edge which cuts in both up and down strokes, with minimal chipping to either face. 

After a little cleaning up of the sawn edges I had a look-see . . .

  

The T-bar, although just 4" x 1" in section, looks bigger than I'd expected.  It's got a job to do, so I'll live with it.  Hopefully it'll blend in a little better when the edges are softened and it's painted.  Being along the centreline of the car, inbetween the sun visor brackets it ought not present headroom issues. 

  

^ just the one side panel fitted (passenger seat covered) ought to further reduce drafts and road noise,  and then (photo 2 ^) a quick look to see how the panel(s) might be carried on a boot rack (nb., this panel is presently without its front and rear fixing rails & sealing flanges, so the final item will not sit so neatly).  These lids would also fit inside the boot ..but I'd have to alter its stay if I wanted to strap it up to the underside boot frame. The photo clearly illustrates why the original (one piece, full size / width) panel is nigh on impossible to carry ..when fitted not in place. 

And so there we are for today.  Again useful progress in the right direct. 

I'm off to the TSSC club meeting at the Sorrel horse now, so that's it for today. 

Bidding you a good evening,

Pete

 

[Bfg]

On the 9th July,following various conversations about paint and seals, I posted . . .

...half the problem with seals is how to keep them in place, and with lift off parts how to avoid them getting snagged and damaged. Neoprene strip has a large sticky face and even if it does get damaged then it's dirt cheap to replace. Still, I note your suggestion and will have a look through the cross-sections available. There may be one that inspires confidence.  Cheers Stuart.

In the meantime - latches.

I like the lever-arm latches of the TR6 hood frame. They are very quick n' convenient to use and neatly tuck out of the way.. but with my having a very lightweight grp (rather than a pretty heavy pressed steel) front rail, I needed to make some changes. . .

  

^ After some thought .. I decided to turn the screwed-on chromed bracket the other way up. This is because, in the original configuration - the stepped flange on the actual lever pin (seen in the second photo) twists on and pushes down against the chunky steel of the hood frame's front rail.  However, if I did the same with this fibreglass front rail, that very narrow flange would soon wear into / through the softer material.  It's also a very localised transfer of load, which again wouldn't work well ..because grp is a lot more flexible than the same thickness of pressed steel.  So., turning the screw-on plate over has the pin's flange running on the screw-on plate's metal and its loading is now distributed across the full footprint of that plate. 

Still I wanted to add some reinforcement . . .

^  I cut n' drilled a piece of steel angle to bolt on top (..anticipating the need for such a piece I'd picked it out of the skip on Monday. I think it might have been an office-furniture drawer runner).  I found longer countersunk screws to fit and cut those 1/8" shorter, to be clear under the lever arm.  This steel angle, although only about 1mm thick, is pretty rigid and so I'm using it to help prevent the ends of the grp front rail from curling up.  It also serves to holds the flanged pin in place, within the screw-on bracket.

^ the angle section was bedded onto bridging filler, so load transfers will be more evenly be distributed.  The g-clamps are simply holding either end of the fibreglass rail down while the resin sets.  Once cured and the fibreglass filler was cleaned up, the metal was treated to a liberal coating of cold galvanising (zinc) paint.

^ front edge of the lift-off lid was then bonded onto the fibreglass rail. Again I used fibreglass bridging paste to do this, although once all is cured I'll add some fibreglass laminate too.

 

^ on the workmate bench.. the panel's front rail now looks like this. It's not yet tidied up, and the edge overhangs are not trimmed to size, but it gives you a clearer picture as to progress.  Naturally, with beam depth added - the lid is structurally stiffer.

  

^ The backlight's cap rail was trimmed to best fit the lid tightly down onto, and then similarly bonded on  ..with the aid of clamps, masking tape, lengths of timber wedged in place and an obscure weight.. to hold the lid down as the filler set.  This was all set up beforehand, as a dry run ..because in this heat there's only a few minutes working time before the bridging-filler part-sets.

Having worked out what I'm doing   ..and how - I'm repeated the same sequence on the drivers side of the car . . .

Poor little Katie  will be glad when I'm done making a mess everywhere.!

That's it for now,

So once again.. bid you a good weekend,

Pete

 

p.s. I'm sure this all seems very seems slow progress, but please bear in mind that I'm not copying someone elses lid  (ie., I'm making things up as I go along ). I also have to allow each stage of fibreglass to cure (giving me an opportunity to do other things inbetween times), and if you look back - it's only been a month since I started to make the mould for this.

[Bfg]

July 11th. . .

Not done much today but to stay out of the heat within the polytunnel.  I did however, this evening, add beam depth stiffness to the front rails. Not because they were flexing but rather so they should be more robust to withstand everyday (ab)use. . .

  

^ very thin plywood (recycled packaging from the green grocer) was cut to shape, as a former to fibreglass onto. The front corner joint was first given a light laminate (300g/m) over the inside corner fillet of bridging-filler that I'd used to bond the two components together. And then the plywood, painted both sides and all edges with resin, was placed and likewise given a lightweight laminate. Together, the plywood with grp effectively form the web of an I-beam.  It's all very lightweight and once cured will be surprisingly strong and stiff.

^ naturally both passenger & driver's sides lift-off lids were done.

In due course they will be trimmed over to make things tidier inside the car, above the windscreen.

Pete   

 

[Bfg]

Btw.  I now have to source Tr4 / Tr4A door glasses as I've the same issue as David aka qkingston  had last year < here > ..insomuch as mine are also too high at the rear corner.  Of course it doesn't help that I'd intentionally kept the rear of my lid very low / tight to rear window seal.  oops ! . . .

Many thanks to Stuart (again) for answering my question - before I even knew to ask it

His reply to David was..  "By the looks of it you have the wrong glass fitted as I had a similar though less pronounced problem when I first fitted the Surrey top to mine which had TR5 glasses fitted as that was all that was available all those years ago when I restored mine, since replaced with correct 4/4a glass and now the fit is much better, your "Parrish" top may also fit differently."

Which again highlights what a brilliant forum this is, especially when one takes the time and trouble to search through previous threads. 

As my windscreen frame / header rail and soft-top hood frame were TR6, then this is no surprise.  But, perhaps like others, I simply didn't realise that these door glasses were shaped differently to fit the Tr5 or TR6 hood frames. 

Pete.  

[Bfg]

July 17th . . .

My pottering this week.. started off by seeing if I were at least on the right track ..

^ by deducting the 4" width of the T-bar, these surrey lid panels do fit within the boot, with the full tool kit and space to spare underneath them.  Of course that isn't so useful for touring but, at first glance, it does look practical enough for day-trips out with a holdall placed underneath the panels for coats or whatever.  I have read of targa-top lid panels being slipped into cloth or vinyl sleeves ..so as to protect them from scratching. That's something I'll likewise explore.  For touring - I guess boot-rack stowage of these panels would be best. In practice, I may only remove the driver's side lid for everyday driving, and then of course it's just one side panel to stow.

Anyway moving onto the task in hand..

     

^ I cut a steel plate and tapped it for 1/4" unf, then bonded that in under the rear flange ..for securing the lid to the backlight.  Then, as I had done across the front rail of these lids, I cut very thin plywood webs and bonded those into place - before laminating over. This closed that box section and directly ties the lid's top surface to the vertical flange.  

Next up - things got a little more testing  . . .

     

^ Without needing to reinvent things., the door-glass-seal needs to push onto a near-vertical flange. Those pieces were made two weeks ago (see 3rd July) with my laminating over a straight piece of rolled-angle.  Thankfully (for the sake of style) the shape I needed for the seal's flange needed to be kinked.  I marked the door glass with masking tape to simulate the TR4 shape of glass and deduced where a cut (just as single kink) was best made. 

    

^ With the fibreglass 'angle' now kinked and held together with masking tape (..'cause I'm a sophisticate engineer type !), I cut n' sanded its return edge until it fitted where I wanted.. That being in line with the windscreen A-post and the backlight's B-post sealing flanges. As the glass is flat so then does this flange need to be straight. And although it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference, because the door-glass has tumblehome to lay against the A-post, so this seal's angle is tilted out.  That's not very clear in the last photo, until one compares the seemingly vertical flange with the angle of the timber post in the background. For clarity this photo would have been better rotated to that  vertical.  Anyhow, the fibreglass 'angle' / flange was tack-bonded in, what I hoped to be, the right place. . .

    

^ with the lid back on the car, the sealing flange was checked against the lines of the door glass. Although the bottom shape of the flange needs to be curved to the top line of the glass (in this case 1" above the bottom edge of the masking tape that can be seen).. it was close enough to proceed with.

    

^ the tack-bonding was appended to, and tidied up, as an inside corner fillet to be laminated over (x2 further layers of 300g csm).  That then close the ring of flanges around the lid panel, which of course again adds to overall stiffness. 

Almost as an aside, but significant to ease-of-use, was to compare the weights ..original versus new. . .

  

^ the original steel surrey-top lid, in steel, with the front edge weather seal in place but otherwise bare and missing some of its inside structure, weighs about 20 lb ( 9 kg).. which when reaching out (to half its width.. let's say 21") up n' over the car - is an ungainly lump to handle.  Due to its size & aerofoil shape - I'd be wary of doing it in a strong wind as well.  In stark contrast ; the fibreglass half-lid presently weighs around 3.3lb (1-1/2 kg), without seals but with the TR6 front latch / level fitted. Its half-width is not even 9.5" which together with the lesser weight makes it very much easier to position on the car.  It is still a little awkward though, insomuch as the peg on the latch has to be in aligned with the keyhole in the windscreen header rail, and the lid has to go down onto the windscreen and back-light frames almost vertically because of the deep flanges I have all the way around it.     

Anyhow moving on.. the issue I have now is with the driver's side door glass not fitting at all well  . . .

^ Even if this were swapped for a TR4 door glass, which has 3/8" to 1/2" less height at the rear top corner, I'd still have a gap above its front-top-corner.  And as you can see the angle of the back edge of the glass is not very good either ..now that the back-light's B-post has pulled down.  That it seems comes from this body-tub's B-post / door shut having been positioned too low &/or at an angle when it was restored. Which in turn meant the rear-deck-panel, forward of the boot lid is also low in this corner.  Therefore without major surgery - I'm scuppered.  I could of course have a door glass made to fit the aperture we have,  or . . .

Or else I might fudge it (.. at least until the body-tub is next repainted) . . .

  

^ Time perhaps for a little wood whittling.  And Oh the aromatic delight of working with timber again, I cannot express the pleasure ..compared to grp or steel fabrication.  The 1/2" thick wood is of course recycled ..and was in fact part of a bulkhead on my boat, so it's high quality marine plywood I'm trying to pack this corner of back-light up with.  

As a bonus, I hope to benefit from another 1/2" of headroom under this side of the roof 

Crude ? undoubtedly yes !  ..but neither irreversible nor intrusive to the car.  And it's definitely a cheap solution ..if it works ! 

Will it work ? ..and will it look xxxx ?  Who really knows until I try it.  Katie  is for driving rather than showing, so let's just run through the exercise and then see what's what.

Bare wood wouldn't last long, so it needed to be sealed, but what with ? resin or paint ? 

I opted to use the same red paint as I'd used inside and under the car.  As I painted that on, I wet-out the wood with white-spirit, so as to encourage the paint to really soak into the fibres.  When that's dry we'll see what's next.

That's it for this week, so I bid you a pleasant Sunday evening.

Pete