Bent exhaust on Vitesse

[daverclasper]

Hi.  Not a great day, went up a high curb today, and ripped off rear half (of stainless) exhaust, which swung out and trapped in the wheel. now got about a 45 degree kink in a connecting pipe and two bent brackets.

This section which has a smaller, silencer?, welded to it, looks to be maybe around a ton to buy.

Was hoping I could maybe straighten it and remove a likely corresponding dent (with some sort of longish dolly in the pipe, if I can find something?).

If this can be done, I guess I would have to heat, to make malleable, hotter than ordinary steel?.

I have a Map Gas torch and maybe heat to cherry red?, often?.

What do you think and any tips please.

Thanks, Dave 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by daverclasper

[Graham C]

Sorry can't provide too much advice on bending stainless steel however my limited experience it is a very hard material to work with. Have you considered having the damaged section replaced, I am sure you have a small fabrication company near you that can sort it out.

I wish you luck.

Graham

[Ian Faulds]

Hi. Your right heat it and bash it out. Just heat it to red. Heat the brackets too and bend back to shape. Stainless is OK to work with. In cold form it air hardens thin stuff can be brittle thicker  forms a tough skin on the outside which is harder to machine. 

[JohnD]

Connecting pieces of all types and sizes are readily and cheaply available.  They include flexible connectors.

See: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heavy-Duty-T304-Stainless-Tube-Connector-Clamp-On-Exhaust-and-Pipe-Repair/132375268532?var=431880473568&hash=item1ed22e4cb4:m:m3OSNu667_gVrqBURAaslGA   Just an example.

Cut out the bent bit, measure the gap and buy your connector!    U-bolts to clamp the on.    It might be wise to make up an extra bracket to support the repair.

John

[Pete Lewis]

Im with John on this 

Places like merlin motorsports or carbuilder solutions all have a selection of rigid and flexibles at various diameters and length

 for a few ££s

Pete

[daverclasper]

Thanks a a lot Guys. Really useful, will go for a connecting piece I reckon.

Dave

[Pete Lewis]

Just a thought......Stainless   can be a a pig to cut 

Be prepared 

Pete

[dougbgt6]

Yup, I got banned from using a lathe in the lab because I tried to turn some stainless and buggered the lathe. Difficult stuff.

db

[JohnD]

But you won't be using a lathe.    An angle grinder will.make short work of cutting out the damage.    Don't worry about special S/S discs, ordinary will cut fine.    

J.

[daverclasper]

Hi.  Used a flexi stainless from "Every Exhaust Part Ltd" who also sell on E Bay. Loads of different stuff.  £15.00 inc clamps and cement and postage. Arrived next day.

Thanks for that tip.

Just wondering. The rear bracket, just after back box is currently a thinish strip of rubber, fastened to chassis bracket and the exhaust sways about some, I assume with bumps etc.

Was thinking it would be kinder to manifold it I used a solid bracket here, as still has a flexible bracket just before back box, plus the flexi joint just in front of this, so exhaust can absorb engine movement.

What do you think?, please.

Thanks, Dave

  

[Pete Lewis]

rigid fixings often end up with fracturing the pipe,  and transmit a lot of noise into the body  best they are left to float about so use a rubber canvass strap or a rubber

bonded isolator bobin,  but not  solid  thats fatal.

Pete

 

 

[Clive]

It is a long way from the manifold, so if you think the rubber is too flexible replace it. 

Be careful of the £1 mini type exhaust bobbins, the really should be used in compression, not here the weight is pulling them apart as the rubber will tear. 

Saw some wide rubber straps the other day, with a pair of holes at each end. Looked a good idea... Will see if I can find them.

 

Incidentally, the diff hanger was originally a metal bracket, and the hole in the diff plate had a stepped rubber "washer" which was fairly rigid. Repro ones 20 years ago were hopeless, which is why the good old rubber/canvas straps started being used.

[Clive]

Range rover classic... Genuine ones eBay number

153350670548

[daverclasper]

Thanks guys.

I did knock up a bracket a while back, for the front part of pipe, that I attached to a bell housing bolt, as apparently they had them fitted from new?.

This has no rubber, though I didn't think the original did, as the idea was to make this area rigid between bracket and manifold?.

Mine is not the sturdiest and has a bit of flex, I imagine. 

Will this be ok, or should I remove, do you think?. 

Edited October 2, 2019 by daverclasper

[Pete Lewis]

Haviñg a solid  clamp on the transmission is fine as it moves  in harmony with the emgine/manifold

its rearwards from there where it needs flexible support 

Pete

[Iain T]

Dave,

Apart from using tube follower etc the way we used to form prototype exhausts and tubes was to fill with dry sand, bung up the ends with wood then heat the area you want to bend  to cherry red and SLOWLY and in several bites bend round by hand (with the aid of extending the tube to get more leverage). The sand stops the tube from collapsing. But you must use bone dry sand or the steam generated inside the tube with blow the bungs out like bullets!!!!!! A common ruse for apprentices in the days when health and safety didn't rule the roost.

Have fun

Iain

[daverclasper]

Wow. Thanks Iain. Love those, old school, simple, but effective ways. need more of it, I reckon.

Dave 

[JohnD]

Sand benduing is the old way.    Here's how one amateur got on with it:

 

With the proper equipment, AND A LOT OF SKILL, this is how it is done:

If you don't have those skills, haven't got time to acquire them and aren't willing to make a complete idiot of yourself, standing in a tree house, heating the pipe in a barbecue etc. then use a hydraulic pipe bender.     By carefully choosing the right shoes for the pipe size, and going slowly and carefully, a good reult can be achieved.   But they cost,£160-200 at least for a good one, but you can hire for as little as £30 a day.

John

[Pete Lewis]

On a visit to Williams (back in the 90s )  it  took  the guy 3 wks to fabricate from flat sheet the exhaust primeries all the same tuned lengths 

A  really accurate  work of art    wonderful  stuff

Pete

[JohnD]

50 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

On a visit to Williams (back in the 90s )  it  took  the guy 3 wks to fabricate from flat sheet the exhaust primeries all the same tuned lengths 

A  really accurate  work of art    wonderful  stuff

Pete

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Williams languishes in the boondocks of F1 while Ferrari wins.  That, and an enormous amount of money.

This is an exhaust manifold part, made for Ferrari by Additive Manufacturing, 3D printing, straight from the CAD drawings.  Yes, it's a collector, not primaries, but the flows will have been checked by CFD (Computational Flow Dynamics) before it ever left the computer's imagination and entered the real world. 

CAD really is useful.   I just spent a day in the workshop, trying to lay out a bracket for my crank damper testing on a non-Triumph engine by sketching on paper.     Gave up, went inside, cuppa tea and fire up the desktop.    Had a design in CAD (Solidworks) in less than two hours.    Now I can make that, although I don't have a 3D printer!

Yes, Pete, I too mourn the loss of those wonderful hand skills that can fabricate to great accuracy.   Alloy bodywork, smooth straight from the wheeler, bearings hand scraped to a thou, the ability to MAKE a plane table!   All gone, or going, like dinosaurs.

John

[dougbgt6]

Ah, the divergence of the club! Technological solutions vs artisan craftsmanship. Or my way, pay someone else to do it.

db

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

 

Yes, Pete, I too mourn the loss of those wonderful hand skills that can fabricate to great accuracy.   Alloy bodywork, smooth straight from the wheeler, bearings hand scraped to a thou, the ability to MAKE a plane table!   All gone, or going, like dinosaurs.

John

Being now on enquiries with my EIGHTH bodyworker / restorer for the GT6 I can heartily agree. No-one does bodywork any more, it's all filler, sanding or bolting on new bumpers. The old skills are going day by day. The good side of this is that I'm having to learn them myself to a basic degree, so am becoming more self-sufficient every day.

[Iain T]

When I had my factory I was fortunate to see the transition from all hand skills in the 70's through to full cad cam 5-axis high speed machining. The best of times as the 'old skool' and new guys intermingled and fed from one another. The result being that with over a hundred skilled workforce I only needed 3 working supervisors as everyone just knew what they were doing.....bliss for me and fulfilling for the workshop.

However you can't go backwards and the new technology is so much more quicker, accurate and repeatable. The only thing education doesn't teach you is common sense, that comes from mentors and getting it wrong.

I attach pictures of my friends Daimler 'Toomer Special' which he converted from a 1940's DE36 hearse. He shortened the chassis completely assembled the car and made all the formers and hand made the ali body himself....impressive but it nearly killed him with the effort! Yes it does have 5.5Ltr straight 8 with 4 SU's and  goes like s**t, but stopping it is another matter. The old skills are still out there but diminishing.

Iain

[JohnD]

Iain,  I thought that event might be Crystal Palace Sprints, as the 'paddock' for that is a similarly bosky setting 

but it's not.

Where is it?

John

[Iain T]

John

It was at Ingatestone Hall in July, a nice event and you can go around the Hall. The car next to the Daimler is an Invicta S-type, only 75 ever made and in show condition, mega bucks but what a car and fantastic Meadows engine.

If you want to see some unique or unusual vintage cars go to the VSCC Prescott Hill Climb event. It's over a Sat/Sun and some of the machinery is jaw dropping, they normally have 3 or so ERA's and to see them off the line for a 80 year old racing car and (Riley based) engine is a must. You can walk around paddock and hill and chat to all the competitors, very friendly.

Your Vitesse looks a bit mean, does it still have the 2ltr engine? Did you tweak the carbs/intake manifold/head?

Iain