Tanky Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Hi all wise one's. As my engine and gearbox is out at the moment, I might as well change the clutch, right. Recommendations would be gratefully received. Rimmers? (again!) Thanks all... Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Personally unless I knew it had done a very high mileage Id inspect the clutch (pressure plate fingers, friction plate thickness, thrust bearing etc) and with that plus the annual mileage I'm planning to do make a decision. Apart from the cost theres always a not inconsiderable risk when renewing something that the replacement will give problems.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 IF you need to change the clutch, find the best quality you can. GENUINE Borg and Beck (not the current ones, they are just in a B+B box) LUK, Sachs, Laycock etc. Clutch bearing wants to be RHP ideally. Or at least a proper branded one. And quality costs, I recently had to buy a new c=clutch bearing, found RHP at Chris Witors shop. Johny has a good point though. Have a look at the clutch, if the fingers only have slight wear that will be OK. The plate is tricky, as they are not partivcually thick to start with, but as long as you have 2mm of wear left before the rivets you will probably get 30K out of it. Likewise if the bearing is smooth and undamaged keep it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanky Posted February 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Hi guy's, when I pull away in first, low revs or high revs the car feels like a bone shaker, it judders to buggery. Once I get out of second it's smooth. I though it might be the clutch...thoughts? Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Is this while your using the clutch (ie pedal depressed) or does it still do it in first gear regardless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Check engine and gearbox mountings. If they are poor, that can cause judder. Especially pulling away. And yes, clutch could cause the issue too, but does it do it as you are letting the pedal up, or does it do it all the time in first? Is the clutch slipping? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanky Posted February 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Hi guys, It only judders as I let the clutch out on pull away. I looked at the PO paperwork/receipts and according to the receipts it had a new clutch 4 years ago with very low milage since. Someone suggested that the clutch plate may have been installed incorrectly... Chances of that? he was a keen amateur, like myself... What do you think? Oh, the clutch doesn't slip at all and I have bought new gearbox mounts. Cheers Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 43 minutes ago, Tanky said: Hi guys, It only judders as I let the clutch out on pull away. I looked at the PO paperwork/receipts and according to the receipts it had a new clutch 4 years ago with very low milage since. Someone suggested that the clutch plate may have been installed incorrectly... Chances of that? he was a keen amateur, like myself... It's possible... but I reckon it's contaminated with something, maybe oil, that is causing the slippage when it first bites and has to use more force to move the car. Low mileage is no indication of little wear, it could be many short trips all of which have either glazed the clutch to become too slippery to bite, or else contaminated it with something. Rimmers only sell clutches that are made by others, so shop around. You may not need the entire thing, just the plate, and to be honest if you've the gearbox out to inspect the clutch then why put an old worn one back in? Genuine B&B kits are just over £100, the plate on its' own is about £25. Just an example, first I could find, below. (Looks to be Motaquip) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-Spitfire-mg1500-FWD-1970-73-NEW-CLUTCH-PLATE-NEW-OLD-STOCK-VCP218-184MM/283683893406?hash=item420ce0b09e:g:90kAAOSwyKZd1uNG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 So a few possibilities. 1. Rubber mounts. You may be able to feel the gearbox wobbling about? 2. Contaminated clutch, may or may not be obvious when you see it. 3. Bent backplate. Do not underestimate the grief they can cause, always ends up with a destroyed clutch plate. 4. Rubbish clutch kit. I doubt it has been put together wrong, usually you cannot operate the clutch at all. But you never know..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Has it done this since you bought the car or started to do it since? Out of interest what has the engine and box been removed for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 a bent back plate as suggested is a good possibility often ignored , with years of gearbox levering in and out they become very bent this places the gearbox out of line and the pressure plate now will not grip the disc on its full circumference , it bites on portions and all being offset in the end it will tear the centre hub of the disc out . you could give it an italian tune up , thats allow slip at max torque in a high gear , repeat till it smells , if it goes on fire youve been too enthusiastic pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanky Posted February 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 Hi all and thanks for the advice. I'll have a look at the weekend hopefully and take some pics. The engine and box are out for a full strip of my spit. I'm giving it a back to bare re-spray more or less..... I don't think I will risk the fire tune up...I'm a Health and Safety Officer after all.......🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 so it juddered right from when you first got the car then? We'll get all the clues in the end🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 19, 2020 Report Share Posted February 19, 2020 one of our safety officers lost a finger checking a guillotine as its all stripped do a serious check on the rear plate being FLAT have a browse at these failure charts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 + 1 for a bent back plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzerman Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 I bought a clutch kit from Canley classics, all good smooth take up no judder and release bearing is quiet . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 out of interest did you have judder before changing the clutch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 check the flat torque straps around the outside are not bent thro being dropped or may had a hard time in transit on the fault chart ......its often not realised that bump starts can bend them ,as the drive is opposite to the intended Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 +1 for bent back plate. Someone changes the clutch but don't have the centring tool. They line it up as best they can and tighten the bell housing ... and tighten ... and tighten. POP! It centres, but not before the back plate has bent. I had this from the BL MAIN DEALER in Reading. Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 hmmm it all depends on whether it did this when Charlie bought the car or started to do it afterwards..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanky Posted February 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 Hi all, thanks for all the advice and thoughts. You're all stars! The clutch was like that when I bought it. The PO told me that it was just the new clutch bedding in. As you all probably know, I'm new to classic cars and working on them, so I'm a bit naive. I've cleaned and degreased the engine and gearbox this weekend and if I can get back to the garage today, I'll dive into the clutch and take a few photos.... Thanks again lovely people and please keep your thoughts coming, they are much appreciated. Charlie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 if its stripped out , put the disc on the input shaft and rotate with care that it cant move see if it has some runout of the facings , a sure sign of Gbox being misaligned when refitted by the PO pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted February 23, 2020 Report Share Posted February 23, 2020 If the bellhousing is misaligned (by not using correct 3/8" dowel bolt) it will result in driveline vibration. At what speed depends on the amount of misalignment. If the spit is the same as a vitesse all the bellhouse fixings are 5/16ths but one is 3/8ths. The input shaft should be aligned with the crank to less than 5 thou and it is if you use the 3/8ths bolt and your backplate isn't bent. Easy to check backplate, put a mag base dti on the flywheel and the dti on the backplate. Rotate the flywheel and read any runout. You can do the same test with the gearbox striped off the bellhousing, mag base on flywheel and put dti on the inside face (thickness) of the round gearbox aperture. Run out must be less than 5 thou. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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