Vitesse seats

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, PatK said:

Thats what the manual says Colin, check the photos, and by having only one outboard at the rear it would appear to help tilt the seat slightly inwards and help clear the windscreen and the B post.

My seat had none so you can see why I struggled, also having 2 at the front would also help with seat rake, which again I was having problems with.

Excellent! With none you'd have trouble sliding the seats over the carpet, but I always believed it took two to keep the rear ends of the runners up off the floorpan to help with adjustment. Three it is, then.

[johny]

My car had 3 spacers and I'd always assumed one had gone missing! Academic now though as I've put in extra spacers to raise the backs....

[Pete Lewis]

 but the  64  parts list shows  4 but not unusual for wsm and P list to not be joined up writing

dont forget the off set pivot bolts also have a wild effect on A post B post clearances and tipping the seat when tilted 

the main effect of the spacer is to stop the carper bowing the slides when bolted down , makes for stiff sliders the spacer lifts the runners off the carpet 

Pete

[trigolf]

Well, this is all very interesting. I've had two Heralds and one Vitesse and I've never seen those spacers fitted in any of my cars. My Vit has always had one 1/8th" thick washer fitted at all four corners. I'm the second owner too, so some oik must have lost the original 1/2" spacers early in the car's life !

Gav

[PatK]

7 hours ago, 68vitesse said:

Plenty off spacer washers on eBay.

Regards

Paul

Yes Paul, thanks, I have some on order and I reckon that a couple will be around 1/2" thick which hopefully will do the trick.

Pat

[Pete Lewis]

the idea of just 3 seems a poor engineering solution, the parts list calls for 4 , having no washer/spacer on the inboard rear would mean the runner gets distorted when bolted down 

on the carpet , this makes little sense to me 

 

Pete

[johny]

Isn't one of them a captive nut which is held in a little metal pocket welded to the floor? If that's the case it sits higher so probably doesn't need a spacer...

[Peter Truman]

Pete I agree When I put the convertible tub on I obviously removed all the hardware off the saloon tub which included the seat hardware.

When I put the seats in I did the obvious and put one each spacer on the rear seat runner supports BUT checking the seat  Runners spares tub there is still 2 spacer washers spare!

So maybe there’s something about the 3 spacer washer theory, ie no spacer on the inside rear mount, but it will require some force to pull that rear inside down onto the support plinth.

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Peter Truman
Typing

[Pete Lewis]

im certain  pitching the rear mounts will not affect the seat angles as thats controlled by the front slides heights and the pivot bolt positions the rear if off set would only make the sit down of the seat tube   to hit the outer rail with a gap under the inner rail  contact points even if the rubber blocks were working 

and both rear mounts are a small turret welded in the floor with a cage nut , never measured but i would presume similar heights 

just some thoughts  

Pete

[Peter Truman]

I changed the passengers seat to the 3No.1/2in spacer washer set up ie outer and front. The seat appears a little tighter to slide, and it still hasn't tilted over enough to clear the Conv B pillar.

Were sooks here it was cold in the garage only 9C outside, even with rubber mats didn't enjoy it!

[dave.vitesse]

The Vitesse had one spacer on each fixing bolt as standard. As far as I can remember back to the 948 Heralds, in the 1960's, this was standard from the introduction of the car.

Dave

[SixasStandard]

1 hour ago, dave.vitesse said:

The Vitesse had one spacer on each fixing bolt as standard. As far as I can remember back to the 948 Heralds, in the 1960's, this was standard from the introduction of the car.

Dave

I'm with Dave on this one. I recently installed a new molded carpet set in my '68 Mk1 Vitesse in the correct original colour of blue, replacing a very threadbare black one. As part of the project I stripped and restored the runners, and on my car the spacers were only present on the rear bolts. After installing the new carpet and refurbished seats I tested the seat adjustment fore and aft, and promptly left nice stripes of fresh lithium grease on my brand new carpet set!! The seat moves ok, but without the spacers on the front bolts the seat rails come into contact with the carpet........which I suppose isn't the end of the world if you have a black interior........but definitely doesn't work well with a blue one! I currently have my seats set well back on the runners to avoid any further problems (and because I'm 6'3") but will be adding the extra spacers when I can get some made. Never a dull moment with old cars!!

Ian 

[Pete Lewis]

been searching for some dimensional clues , but   605744   packing piece  4 off

is all i have found its not in hardware catalogue  

pete

[johny]

Ha, bang goes my theory! However the WSM is clear with both the diagram and written explanation indicating only 3 spacers...

[griffipaul]

Vitesse mk2 spares catalogue says 2 front 1 rear= 3 per side , .....use penny washers as appropriate.

[Peter Truman]

When I removed the Mk2 saloon rear tub I stripped all the hardware off and bagged them separately as per use. The seat hardware bag had 6 spacers and 6 long bolts and two shorter, 8No 5/16 Std washers and 8 big washers same dia as spacers. I even drilled off the 4 rear Seat mounting pillars which ironically I shipped back for a TSSC member for use on a Bond.

I assume no spacer at the rear Innside was to can’t the seat back over to clear the saloon B pillar?

 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Peter Truman said:

When I removed the Mk2 saloon rear tub I stripped all the hardware off and bagged them separately as per use. The seat hardware bag had 6 spacers and 6 long bolts and two shorter, 8No 5/16 Std washers and 8 big washers same dia as spacers. I even drilled off the 4 rear Seat mounting pillars which ironically I shipped back for a TSSC member for use on a Bond.

I assume no spacer at the rear Innside was to can’t the seat back over to clear the saloon B pillar?

 

 

It may be - just thinking - that with the seat off-set on the front mountings so as to tilt at an angle, it actually levels it up when sitting flat...

[Pete Lewis]

any angular change to the seat slide  front pivot by having or not having a spacer is less than minimal 

if it fouls the B post or A post you have the pivot bolts in the wrong pairs of holes 

Pete

[NonMember]

Is the seat actually that rigid? Doesn't it rest on the back just as much?

[Pete Lewis]

its all quite wobbly really and when youre sat on it all finds its place 

  its just from a engineering view a 1/2" washer  fitted  .....or not      under the rear end of the seat slide will have no real effect on the tilted angle  of the seat frame giving A post/  B post problems , its many inches behind the  off set   front pivots which do control the seat angles. 

so a mk1 /vit6 list 4 and mk2 list 3  it does not make happy sense unless the floor turret/cage nut heights  changed 

pete

 

, 

[johny]

As I say my MK1 manual definitely shows and talks about 3 so I think there must be a typo somewhere...

[Colin Lindsay]

I always believed it was two per seat on the rear runners to lift them off the carpet given the tilt of the floorpan, to enable the seats to slide more easily. Three is possible, as I was pondering earlier, as if the seat is bolted higher on one side than the other - to give it a tilt - then would it look as though it was down at the other side, and sitting at an angle, hence the third spacer? When I get to the stage of fitting my seats I'll maybe experiment.

[PeteH]

Hi

As I have the Vehicle stripped out, maybe the Photo`s will help.

 

The floor under the carpeting appears to be "level" between the mounting points. So the Underframe will IMV, lie level too, it will therefore be the use of "Packers" which influence the final positioning of the Seat.

Offsetting the front mounts is not something I had considered.

In my case it is my intention to retrofit MX5 Seats.

[Pete Lewis]

as expected the floor mounts are parallel /flat /equal,  adding a spacer even one at 1/2" to the rear of the slide runner( even just one of them)  makes such a small change to the front pivot point as to be of no  conclusive purpose in altering the seat angle  the only real use is to clear the runners from the carpet which can foul up the slides , all the parts books and WSM seem to vary which says .........somewhere the idea was not included in the base specification of parts , 

using 3   why ???    if you pitch the runners then the seat frame rear tubes will not sit equally ontop of the runners ,as the front is ...level,

all a bit ludicrous , its bad enough getting the front  pivot offset understood 

common sense says its got to be 4 or none i suggest you   ignore the ' wonky'  idea 

pete

[SixasStandard]

I definitely think that there should be 4. I currently only have 2 per seat on the rear, and the runners foul on the carpet when you move the seat forward. If you have the runners properly greased this will have the dual effect of dirtying your carpet and wiping all of the grease off the runners, so I can't imagine that was they way it was intended.

Ian