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Newbie 13/60 owner from North Tyneside


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Hi there folks, I'm Jeff from Cullercoats.

I'm 69 years of age and just bought a 1971 13/60 in Maroon. (Damson?)

It has a recon engine with 26k on (changed at 99,960) so the rest of it is 'getting on a bit' :) !!

In fact it is a bit dilapidated! I probably paid to much for it but...!!

I had a couple of spits in my youth, Mk1 and 11 and also a 1600 vitesse convertible, this is late '60s early 70s.

So..... it is back to the grease in the finger nails and the swarfega by the sink

I have LOADS of questions and will get back later....oh.. One I need to answer now is ....It is nigh impossible to get into reverse, I lift and push forward. (book says press down???) ... Anyway, it is a fight, I smash my knuckles into the radio!! Also getting into first is the same, I have to lift a little but keep right of reverse and even worse, second is a struggle!! but 3&4 ok. I've whipped the cover off, and the extension housing but cannot, as yet see into the gubbins and do not know what I am looking for??? I've ordered a £13 rebush kit but do not know if this is what I need

Also the passenger door protrudes but only at the bottom rear? How to adjust please?

I also have a reversing light switch ,operated by a 'cam' on the front of the extension cover red plastic bolted to the two forward retaining bolts. Big red wires going under bonnet to a fused link, but no actual light anywhere! anyone need one? I do not think I'll trace wireing and fit a spotlamp or whatever, plus it 'cracks and spits' when I get near reverse or even first so Ive pulled the live feed.

Oh... I get a rotational knock nock nock, like a dumph dumph dumph.. .. UJ?

Wife calling, got to go.

Some pictures.

1360a.jpg

1360b.jpg

1360e.jpg

1360i.jpg

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I suspect the cam switch on the gearbox is an overdrive cut out switch. Looks like an extra switch on the column for O/D, cam switch allows engagement only in 3rd and 4th.

Bottom door edge sticking out is usually a symptom of 'tub spread' where the tub at the top of the door 'B' posts has expanded. Lots of links to this.

Gear selection often cured by replacing the parts at the base of the gear lever. Again, lots of links.

 Enjoy!. 

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12 minutes ago, Jeffds1360 said:

So..... it is back to the grease in the finger nails and the swarfega by the sink

Hello Jeff,

Welcome to the Forum, and congratulations on your return to Triumph ownership. I had to laugh at your 'Swarfega by the sink' comment.......as I have a jumbo tub there as well!!

You have quite a list of issues there to be getting on with, and as I'm a fairly recent convert to Triumphs I'll let more experienced heads comment on your car's maladies. If you're like me you'll probably see the spannering as one of the most rewarding elements of classic car ownership, so don't be afraid to go outside your comfort zone. There are plenty of experienced owners on the Forum to give advice and guidance.

Enjoy your Herald.

Ian  

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Hi Jeff,

Nice colour ;)

As Mark said, you appear to have an overdrive switch so the one on the gearbox extension is probably the cut-out for that.

Needing to lift the gear lever - ever! - on a Herald is normally a sign of the bushing at the bottom of the gearstick being shot. You've ordered the kit - have a search on here for threads relating to it, as there are some things to watch for, such as jagged edges and poor quality parts. I will just ask, though, for clarity - you have reverse to the left of first, yes? Your comments about needing to avoid it suggest so. That's the correct position but, since you appear to have overdrive, which was never offered on Heralds, I want to be sure you don't have a late Spitfire "single rail" gearbox fitted. Just re-read your comments and I'm fairly sure you have the 3-rail, and even more sure that most of your gear selection problems are down to shot bushes.

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yes they are all on the ball  tub spread  door adjustment will not work to solve this 

gear remote is easy if the Tunnel is off the remote needs to come off  just the top 4 nuts and put it on the kitchen table !!!

reverse switch ... odd the bracket on the front 2 bolts is early design i would have thought  a 13/60 might have the switch port under the remote hsg. overdrive inhibitor switch also sits on a front bracket opposite side 

keep asking when your ready and we can point you in a direction without the need for the samaritans  

Pete

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Thank you gentlemen, that is my hours exercise for the day over so now I wash her and see how many bits of trim fall off!!!

I already need a bumper end, blooming heck... £22 on line???

So,  Mark, no way does this have O/D so even more confused. I'll search up on the door but the panel behind is fine.I'll also search the gear lever links. Ta

Sixas, cheers we can learn together. In about '74 I sort of moved on from DIY mechanics and chucked all my AF, Witworth and BA tools away... that was stupid of me.

'NonMember, I am pretty sure it is the 3 rail non overdrive. This switch is all wired up to come live when reverse is selected, I'll try get a picture later and Yes reverse to left and up and forward. Book says press down????

Pete,.. I'd get hung drawn and quartered if bits came in the kitchen! I get enough grief working on the freezer and washing machine tops!!!

Cheers poppyman

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10 minutes ago, Jeffds1360 said:

 Yes reverse to left and up and forward. Book says press down????

The book is right ;)

If the gear lever bushes are intact, and everything properly adjusted, there's a little bolt on the gearstick that hits a plate on the remote housing and prevents the gear lever going left of the 1st/2nd plane. To get to reverse, you need to move the bolt down below the plate, which you do by pushing the gear lever down, against the spring on the bush. If you even can lift the gear lever then your bushes are shot or the spring retaining circlip is AWOL. This is really common!

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1 hour ago, Jeffds1360 said:

Sixas, cheers we can learn together. In about '74 I sort of moved on from DIY mechanics and chucked all my AF, Witworth and BA tools away... that was stupid of me.

Buy more!! With 7/16, 1/2 and 9/16 spanners you can pretty much dismantle the entire car.

Welcome Jeff, I was looking at that car and it seems an honest Herald; you never pay too much for one as firstly it makes you happy - which is priceless - and secondly the longer you keep it, the better value it becomes.

I think Mark's correct about the overdrive cam, you have two stalks on the right side of the steering column. It will only work in 3rd and 4th.

For reverse press down whilst in neutral then out to the left and forward. This exploded diagram will give you an idea of what to expect once you start to dismantle; I have photos if you need detail.

gearbushkit.jpg.b76a8dfdaaeb035fdaffd11a98aa2632.jpg

 

 

 

 

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if the stick is so low the reverse stop is overiden then theres a good chance the main spherical ball has failed  the small inner spring in the sketch is the one that returns the reverse push down , the hardest job is getting the circlip off the stick can be a challenge 

do check your kit for the cup washer may have as rob says very sharp cropped edges which will mince the replacement before yo get off the drive   a bit of filing will sort it or use the old one 

pete

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Good good, I'm getting somewhere now. Looks like I may have overdrive as I have a second stalk on the column on the right! Wonder what the box is from then?

Colin, thanks. I have seen that the top 4 pieces on the left are there but not sure about bottom 3!!??. Too hot here, having a sit in garden with a beer so just polishing this PM. when she is in shade!

Pete, cheers, my ball seemed pretty solid  :) but I need a proper look. 

I'll do a search when in the shade.

(I've been posting in triumph club? but there has been 1/10 the interaction over 2 weeks that I have had in 2 hours here.

Seems nice place but bit like some other nameless clubs I was in, they all go Facebook... I am not on ANY social media sites. BTW I had a couple of celica GT4s :) good UK ones. PM me if interested in my car history  :) )

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Jeff,

Have you had the gearbox cover off?    You'll be able to see then if you have an O/d gearbox, and it's the big cylinder bolted onto the back.  Not to be confused by the small cylinder, the Servo.

threeraildtypeoverdrive.jpg

D-type, and for good measure, but unlikely;

singlerailjtypeoverdrive.jpg

the J-type.   

In the D-type the inhibitor switch that prevents engagement in 1st & 2nd is bolted to the gearbox lid at the front and is actuated by a lever on the front end of the remote.    The reverse switch for the reversing light is under the remote and actuated from inside the 'box.

If you have to look from under the car, then an O/d box has a different rear support plate. Looks like this:

5) D TYPE O/D MOUNTING PLATE GT6 with O/D

The big holes are for adjusting the internals of the O/d.

If you don't have an O/d box, bad luck, but no surprises!   All Triumphs by now are 'bitsa' cars, with replaced parts, some not a perfect replacement.   

If you want an O/d box then you will have yo source a complete one - the Overdrive unit isn't just a bolt-on to the back!

 

Finally, a guru will need to confirm this, but I think that later Triumph gearboxes found reverse somewhere else!  Again as a 'bitsa' you car might have a 1500 Spitfire 'box, where reverse is to the RIGHT and UP, as you LIFT the gear knob.  

Triumph Spitfire MK4, 1500 OE Shift Knob Rare - Sports & Classics

 

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Yes, that is a 3-rail gearbox with a D-type overdrive. The switch, if aligned correctly, is engaged when in the 3rd/4th plane, to allow overdrive operation only in 3rd or 4th. The pin sticking through the bottom of the gearstick is the reverse detent and should hit the curved plate  to stop you going into reverse without pushing down. And finally, YES, that spring is in the wrong place! It's either been reassembled by a numpty, or the plastic ball is totally shot. Quite possibly the former. I suspect you'll find a few more bits of idiocy as you get the car into proper order, but at least this one is a cheap fix, and having overdrive is a bonus!

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Incidentally, in the photo of the switch I can see that the front fixings of the remote are still present, and in the first photo I think I can see the switch bracket hanging off the left side. Is that how it was fitted? What was operating the switch? Was the guy who fitted that gearbox having a laugh?

Just to be clear, the bracket has two holes for 5/16" bolts (8mm roughly). These are supposed to be bolted down by the front pair of nuts that hold the remote assembly onto the gearbox cover. You should then find that the switch operates in 3rd and 4th

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No no, I took the switch off and replaced the cover It was in the right place. Woo hoo!! Overdrive!!. Am now attempting to remove circlip and my phone is getting greasy  :)

I'll report back soon

 

Edited by Jeffds1360
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Just while you have access - on the top face of the gearbox metal housing, along the side of the flat alloy top cover, there will be a serial number - along the rusty brown bit in this photo. Two letters followed by numbers. If you can see it, it will help identify the box for spares or maybe repairs.

serial.jpg.70b537bea11ace4675ba8a9193d00c2b.jpg

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Circlip not in slot!!!! I wonder what sort of pillock put this together????

Major question though.....my ball is sound but what does it sit on? Is there a washer? The gearlever is counter sunk at the very bottom. Bit like where the snap ring goes???

Edited by Jeffds1360
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This one?

Damn. Passenger door chunks on bonnet. What does the nylon sphere sit on? Damn top cut of photo. It says V2628 above that....oh? It's ok now.

Need to know ball sits on if anything or is just held in housing? My old (1970) manual  shows part number '13' looks like a washer?

20200624_152332.jpg

Edited by Jeffds1360
1970 manual no 13/60 in it
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No, that's not the number Colin was after. We want the serial number, which was stamped, not cast, into the top face of the cast iron main housing - the flat but slightly rusty bit next to the nice shade of blue in the bottom right corner of Colin's photo.

The ball sits directly in the cup in the remote housing. I think the springs sit directly on the ball. The hole in the ball should be just snug to slide along the lever.

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Circlip not in slot!!!! I wonder what sort of pillock put this together????

Major question though.....my ball is sound but what does it sit on? Is there a washer? The gearlever is counter sunk there. Bit like where the snap ring goes???

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Damn. Posts all out of order! Forgot to submit. Greasy hands!!

So anyway, it's back together and I have 5 gears easily obtained. Thank you all.

However when pushed down and into reverse it needs pulling back up to get 1234 easily. My bad, I cleaned everything so it needs relubricating unless the springs are too weak.

That's it for today. Do not go topless when working on gearbox, I have grease up my armpits :) I'll get that box number tomorrow 

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