Which is better for long distance work, standard or electronic cooling fan?

[jagnut66]

Hi, 

I know, me again, so many questions.....

Sorry, I'm new to Triumph ownership.

I'm going to have my rad recored, so that I'm starting with a clean modern core that will cope better with modern traffic conditions, as I hope to use here on a regular basis. 

Also, in every car I've bought over the recent years Minor or MGB, it seems that previous owners, even in this enlightened(?) day and age, still think plain tap water is sufficient for cooling purposes.......🙄

However my question is this, will I be okay to stick with the original mechanical fan or would I be better swapping to an electric (temperature driven) one long term?

I imagine most of my journeys will be local / accross the peak district, however I will need to travel further by motorway on occasion.

As an aside I have purchased and will be fitting an oil cooler (lesson learnt the hard way a few years back in a Minor).

Many thanks, 

Mike.

 

[Pete Lewis]

1147 herald do not have any cooling quirks  you could fit a later plastic fan , they are quieter too.

the std fan is fine , the electric does not keep an air flow under the bonnet only when its on   this gives poor carburation control if under bonnet 

air is too hot  

unless your racing it an oil cool just is not a must have thats really needed 

decent oil quality is all you need , 

if you want performance and a hot everything   get a GT6   ha !!

Pete

[jagnut66]

24 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

if you want performance and a hot everything   get a GT6   ha !!

No, just looking to get the best out of the 1200 and ensure it copes with anything I might ask of it in modern traffic conditions / on motorways.

Oddly I'm not drawn to the TR range or the GT6.

Don't get me wrong, I like them, I just have no desire to own one.

If I was to go for another Triumph it would probably be an early 2000.

But for now I'm content with just the Herald and to spend, where neccessary, on that.

I'll stick with the standard fan set up then. (Saves me money as well! 😃)

Best wishes,

Mike.

 

[Badwolf]

Mike - As for coolant there are many discussions on here (use the search feature) from Evans waterless right through to my own humble cheap and cheerful distilled water (from dehumidifier) plus anti freeze. Everyone has their favourite 'must have'.

[Pete Lewis]

a plastic fan for christmas 

https://www.canleyclassics.com/?catalogue=triumph-spitfire-mkiv/1500&diagram=triumph-spitfire-mkiv/1500-water-pump-fan

as for coolant glycol antifreeze (blue) and demin water or  as most  Tap water 

Pete

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jagnut66]

2 hours ago, Badwolf said:

As for coolant therefore many discussions on here (use the search feature) from Evans waterless

Hi, 

Waterless coolant has been discussed on the MMOC site before now, consensus of opinion seems to be that it is not the best solution / a good idea for our type of classics.

Personally, whilst one of my Minors has silicone brake fluid (Dot 5) installed, as far coolant is concerned I will be sticking with the blue antifreeze mixed with water.

33 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

a plastic fan for christmas 

I'm watching this, looks right to me:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224433284520?epid=1316853409&hash=item34414425a8:g:X5IAAOSwdBpgf2f3

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Colin Lindsay]

4 hours ago, jagnut66 said:

I'm going to have my rad recored, so that I'm starting with a clean modern core that will cope better with modern traffic conditions, as I hope to use here on a regular basis. 

I'm assuming you have the wide radiator; a big bonus especially if you get it recored, but as long as the system is clean and free-flowing it'll cope with a lot of use.

Plastic fan... yuck. Not in the spirit of things! You can get alloy versions of the original fan, but I run (ran... not on road at present) my 1200 with a twin-blade fan, wide radiator and 80 degree thermostat and it runs fine even on long trips. 

[Clive]

It will be long uphill slogs that get things hot, plus inevitable traffic jams. But the 1200 is, as Pete points out, not known to suffer with overheating. I would stick to a manual fan (ideally plastic, more efficient) 

And yes, 30-50% blue antifreeze is my choice. It just works. 

Worth flushing teh block through, especially the block drain under the manifolds near the back of the engine. Often blocked even when the plug is fully removed. A good prod around i=with bits of wire etc gets it moving. The heater is also usually full of grot. Oh, and the metal bypass pipe under the manifolds.

[Pete Lewis]

12 hours ago, jagnut66 said:

watching this, looks right to me

you may need a bush kit as the 4  bush/grommets do regrade the pump/pulley may have a different offset to your 1200  ,so bag the fan but

take care with "the pump"

Clives on the case with a flush   the best we have found is a good strong dose of simple washing soda crystals   on top of the poke and prod exercises 

add the heater valve to the list of crud colletors 

Pete

[jagnut66]

The fan is bagged. 

At that price, including a water pump, it was too good to miss. Initially it will keep the fan on it but I can see how the lighter weight and seven angled blades of the plastic fan would make it more efficient, so once its cleaned up (and possibly repainted) I think I will fit the plastic one.

I don't see a bush kit on the Rimmers Bros site, however I note the Canley Classics site like to show a schematic breakdown of all components, the same as or similar to the workshop manual.

I am still finding my way round their site, do you have to call them to place orders? It looks like they'd be the best place to go for such a kit.

For me the RimmerBros site is easier to navigate and order parts online but they don't seem to cover everything.....

I also notice that all the recommendations for where to get parts I've had on here point towards Canley Classics. Is there a general consensus on here that favours them over others?

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Colin Lindsay]

4 minutes ago, jagnut66 said:

I also notice that all the recommendations for where to get parts I've had on here point towards Canley Classics. Is there a general consensus on here that favours them over others?

Best wishes,

Mike.

Opinions differ. They do have a good catalogue, though, which is handy for identifying part numbers.

[johny]

Im not sure that type of fan has rubber mountings, its so light I think it might have bosses as part of the moulding and just bolts up with washers on those...

James Paddock can sometimes be good on price so its worth checking different suppliers.

[Colin Lindsay]

I don't think the Spitfire fan uses bushes; the heavier GT6 version does.

I wonder how the water pump in that listing is an 'upgrade'?

 

[Chris A]

I don't know if the 13/60 is the same but I have fitted a 7 blade plastic fan and there are no bushes. I justify the upgrade as the fan was fitted to export models I think to cope with higher temperatures - as I live in Normandy it qualifies 😅

As for suppliers I usually check with all the main ones, not all offer everything, plus postage varies quite a bit as well and can make the total cost of one supplier more competitive than the initial item costs might suggest.

[Colin Lindsay]

16 minutes ago, Chris A said:

As for suppliers I usually check with all the main ones, not all offer everything, plus postage varies quite a bit as well and can make the total cost of one supplier more competitive than the initial item costs might suggest.

Same here; one supplier I phoned recently to ask for postage told me he'd waive it as it was a good order; not many do that!

Conversely one of the more prolific and usually cheaper eBay suppliers sent me an order two weeks ago that was really only fit for the bin, so there are limits both ways.

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

 

Conversely one of the more prolific and usually cheaper eBay suppliers sent me an order two weeks ago that was really only fit for the bin, so there are limits both ways.

Yes I know what you mean. If only life was simple, you had the choice of cheap & low quality or more expensive and good quality. Now it seems in many cases to be pot luck. I have to admit that so far (head on head) touch wood I've been ok.

[Pete Lewis]

whats the difference between a gwp200 to a gwp 128 ???

apart from 128 seems only listed for mkiv /1500  

would pulley dia be a guess ???

Pete

[jagnut66]

4 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

I wonder how the water pump in that listing is an 'upgrade'?

I thought it looked the same too but I am new to Triumph parts, I'll post up some pictures when it arrives.

3 hours ago, Chris A said:

as I live in Normandy it qualifies 

And I thought when it rained here it rained there as well........... 😄

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Chris A]

37 minutes ago, jagnut66 said:

 

And I thought when it rained here it rained there as well........... 😄

Best wishes,

Mike.

NOOOO! The weather people always tell us the bad weather is coming in from Britain, but doesn't reach us here in the Orne in what we still call Basse Normandie. We are protected because we are far enough inland and all the rain falls on the coastal areas. Only rains at night, only on the fields that need it so the cows produce plenty of good milk for the cheese and crème fraîche, only on the orchards so we get the apples for the cidre & calvados.

But mostly on the Parisians who pester us!

[Badwolf]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

whats the difference between a gwp200 to a gwp 128 ???

apart from 128 seems only listed for mkiv /1500  

would pulley dia be a guess ???

Pete

Correct (ish). Not sure what I put on mine which is a 13/60 engine in a Spitfire so it will probably be wrong for an 1100. Kevin put me right when I asked the same questions a couple of years ago. I will try to find his reply.

[Badwolf]

Kevin's replies you can find them at the bottom of this page....

https://forum.tssc.org.uk/topic/2623-gates-barricade-outside-diameter-nose-to-tail-1972-spitfire-mkiv-restoration-upgrades/

...I cannot work out how to quote across threads.

Posted July 30, 2017

Gwp200 is for engines fitted with a generator. Gwp128 is for engines fitted with an alternator. The pump body is the same. The pulley is the same offset, but a different size. Longer belt needed for the gwp128. Ensures that the generator or alternator spin at the right speed range relative to the engine speed.

Posted July 30, 2017

The GWP200 will have a 4" diameter pulley, and the GWP128 will have a 5, 1/4" pulley. External parts for the engine should (in the main) be selected for the car that the engine is installed in, and not the car that sourced the engine in the first place.

 

[SpitFire6]

Hi,
 How can water-pump pulley diameter have any effect on alternator/generator RPM?
I guess the earlier 200 model was prone to cavitation. 5 1/4 reduces pump speed by 25%? 200 would provide better cooling until it ever cavitates.
Cheers,
Iain.

[Pete Lewis]

the only odd thing with that is the water pump pulley has no effect on dyno/alternator speeds it only changes the belt lengths  

the crank pulley determines belt speed as does the generator pulley size the WP is just a jockey/idler  which if differening diameter will only alter the pump speeds 

Pete

 

[Pete Lewis]

Iain  .....Snap 

pete