Maximum speeds in intermediary gears Herald 13/60

[Chris A]

I'm too mean to buy and fit a rev counter, 🤑, but would be interested to know what the max speeds are in the first 3 gears of a standard 13/60, the handbook gives max power and max torque at 'X' rpm but I'm interested in the top speeds. I've done a calculation but would like the clever ones on the forum to give a second opinion.

Thanks guys.

[Pete Lewis]

a bit cruel..........why not just floor it in each gear and when you reach valve bounce note the speed !!!!!!!

pete

 

 

[mishmosh]

Mintylamb.co.U.K. Will tell you all you need. A great resource. 

[mishmosh]

[Josef]

Should be a 4.11 diff for a standard Herald though right?

[Clive]

1 minute ago, Josef said:

Should be a 4.11 diff for a standard Herald though right?

Yep. Worth double checking the gear ratios too.

[mishmosh]

26 minutes ago, Josef said:

Should be a 4.11 diff for a standard Herald though right?

I simply screen shotted my last calculation. If you go on the site you need to put all the cars variables in  first. 

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

a bit cruel..........why not just floor it in each gear and when you reach valve bounce note the speed !!!!!!!

pete

 

 

Arrrghhhhhh!!!!

[daverclasper]

Out of interest "what does valve bounce sound / feel like"?.  Yes I know, I should drive car harder, then maybe obvious. I just can't!. 

[Chris A]

41 minutes ago, Josef said:

Should be a 4.11 diff for a standard Herald though right?

Yes

 

35 minutes ago, clive said:

Yep. Worth double checking the gear ratios too.

Done

Assuming red line at 5500 - is that correct?

This gives :24, 42, 65 and 4th at 90.

Which ties in with what I had, great minds think alike & fools, well lets forget that bit.

90, as we all know is a theoretical figure but not that much above Triumph's claims 🙄.

I'm not sure my heart would stand pushing it to those levels too often, but occasionally when the need/desire strikes . . .

Question asked, question answered. Thanks to all

[mishmosh]

An overdrive is the best solution. 

[Chris A]

Just now, daverclasper said:

Out of interest "what does valve bounce sound / feel like"?.  Yes I know, I should drive car harder, then maybe obvious. I just can't!. 

Good question, I wondered myself - see there are two of us who are wimps here.

Maybe its like when the car bounces on a bumpy road, but less so . . .when I think I'm pushing it a bit I look in the rear view mirror for :-

1. Nasty smoke from the exhaust

2. Bits of the car that have fallen off 

😱

[Chris A]

1 minute ago, mishmosh said:

An overdrive is the best solution. 

Yes I know, I could be persuaded but I can find enough excuses reasons why not, such as availability here of the parts, cost. I am sure I know a man that could do the work though . . . .Must ask him this spring. It'll be a good reason for a drive over to his place and have another look round his 400(?) or so British cars he has collected over the years.

[mishmosh]

2 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Yes I know, I could be persuaded but I can find enough excuses reasons why not, such as availability here of the parts, cost. I am sure I know a man that could do the work though . . . .Must ask him this spring. It'll be a good reason for a drive over to his place and have another look round his 400(?) or so British cars he has collected over the years.

Any spitfire box can be fitted. Although the 1500 ones need some mods. 

[Josef]

4 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Yes I know, I could be persuaded but I can find enough excuses reasons why not, such as availability here of the parts, cost. I am sure I know a man that could do the work though . . . .Must ask him this spring. It'll be a good reason for a drive over to his place and have another look round his 400(?) or so British cars he has collected over the years.

I have recently finally bitten the bullet and obtained an overdrive box and overdrive to fit to the Herald (via a complex plan of rebuilding this one and swapping it into the Spitfire to then at least attempt to re-seal that one as it barely holds oil and has suspicious bits of red sealant hanging down from it, before converting the Herald).

[Clive]

2 hours ago, Chris A said:

I'm too mean to buy and fit a rev counter, 🤑, but would be interested to know what the max speeds are in the first 3 gears of a standard 13/60, the handbook gives max power and max torque at 'X' rpm but I'm interested in the top speeds. I've done a calculation but would like the clever ones on the forum to give a second opinion.

Thanks guys.

Generally the drivers nerve gives out before the engine suffers any damage.... these engines are pretty noisy (or more to the point, the interior has less sound insulation than modern cars) so getting near te red line can be scary. 

6000rpm should be fine on any engine, though not for long with a 1500. 

[Pete Lewis]

valve bounce is when at silly excess rpm the valve spring will not hold the valve shut and it does a double bounce off its seating 

dramatic loss of power and a racket of what  the heck is all that  as there will be a good clatter 

ask why a spitty has double springs and herald only a single  getting the spring rates and adding a double is a very clever bit of work of compressive and returning hysteresis

and the frequency/velocity   of all that goes up and down  

well something like that

not much on wiki

'Valve bounce' is a related condition where the valve does not stay seated because of the combined effects of the valve's inertia and resonance of metallic valve springs that reduce the closing force and allow the valve to re-open partially.

[1969Mk3Spitfire]

I’ve reached valve bounce just once in my driving career and I don’t think that I’ve put “pedal to the metal” in any car since.

It was the day I passed my driving test. My first “solo” I absolutely thrashed my Mk1 Cortina and bounced the valves in 3rd gear. It felt like a misfire. As a slowed down I heard the noise, I’d broken the cam shaft. A salutary lesson for a stupid 17 year old. 
 

[Steve P]

I had a modified 1293cc mini back in the day with an Avonbar Racing cam and head work etc. standard springs though, that would start valve bouncing at 6200 rpm.

Regularly reached by a mad 18 year old me.And i killed loads of metalastic couplings trying to do wheelspins.

Much more sedate now with my Herald and Vitesse, though they are both highly modified.

Steve

[Colin Lindsay]

On 01/01/2022 at 15:31, Chris A said:

I'm too mean to buy and fit a rev counter, 🤑,

They can be big money... I haven't fitted this one yet, still getting over the shock...

[Chris A]

54 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

They can be big money... I haven't fitted this one yet, still getting over the shock...

I bet the postage cost more than the tacho 🤔

[Pete Lewis]

if thats 1980s  what on earth did it come from or fit in

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

I bet the postage cost more than the tacho 🤔

Lol yes postage was a fiver. It's a 3 inch rev counter, quite unusual but with no maker's details at all. The other one I have for the Herald is a Checkman, it's only 52mm and will sit on top of the dash near the windscreen pillar, small enough to be out of the way but easily read if need be. It was about £4.

 

[Wagger]

I am an amateur musician, as is my wife who has 'Perfect Pitch'. I ask her what note the engine is making, Middle C on the piano is about 256Hz, about 6,200rpm on a four pot engine. The E below that is about 162Hz. At 5000 rpm, a four pot hits 166.7Hz. I compare it to my voice range using relative pitch.

Six pot rpm is 2/3rd's for the same notes.

Not very practical, but quite fun. Harmonizing with my engines in the past has annoyed many a passenger. Major seventh's especially.

I need another 'T' shirt don't I? 'Beware, this man is a mine of useless information'.

Happy 2022.

[Chris A]

11 hours ago, Wagger said:

Harmonizing with my engines in the past has annoyed many a passenger

Really? Can't understand why 😱