How often should ignition parts be replaced as a matter of course?

[daverclasper]

Hi. Is there a guide line for the different consumables regarding mileage/years? (Maybe sooner for modern remanufactured parts).

For example, I gather plugs every 10,000 miles?, though do they deteriorate with age as well?.

Condenser, I was told years ago, don't replace, unless it's failed?.

My coil is probably original, that potentially ok?

I've heard that one individual has never known HT leads to fail?.

What about points, as long as no pip?.

Interested, as had to get home start out (requested an older person). I did some basic testing before and checked out ok until the dizzy cap to plugs (no spark). It eventually started with his booster pack and spraying carb cleaner, after much cranking. Ran really rough for ages and no 1 cylinder not firing at all (cold manifold branch confirming this). All cylinders smoothed out eventually.

Mechanic thought it was odd, it was so very difficult to start, as once warmed up was running really well, so he thought it was set up ok and no obvious complete failure of particular parts, though recommended I at least change plugs and HT leads.

Wondered if anyone had views on this please, as will replace whatever it needs, in the name of reliability if this is appropriate?.

Cheers, Dave

 

 

 

[NonMember]

My GT6's plugs don't last 10000 miles, but the failure mode on them is low speed misfire once warm. Coils do fail eventually but can last a long time. HT leads deteriorate with age but, again, can last a long time.

If you had a spark on the king lead but not beyond then it sounds like a failing disi cap - they develop micro-scoring that encourages moisture to cause tracking and loss of spark. If dried out thoroughly it may still seem to work but the next morning, after a cold night, it will fail again.

[daverclasper]

Thanks. I did change the dizzy cap and leads for ones that came off of a spare dizzy. They looked ok?, though unknown.

Did'nt make any difference at all that I could tell, I thought there may have been some difference. The rotor arm checked out ok, though replaced this also with NOS one.

Thinking maybe the plugs are the main culprits, though is it likely, most/all have gone dodgy at the same time?.

[Wagger]

I once had a very high resistance centre insert in the distributor cap. Over 100 meg-0hms. No sparks!

[Chris A]

I don't know about how often they should be changed I just keep a spare of most bits handy. A spare that is known to work, even if new I at least for it for a while to be certain. Than should i get suspicious I can swap them over.

I don't have a spare set of HT leads though . . .🤔 where's my shopping list?

[Works Spitfires]

Our 59 Herald as far as I can tell has all its original ignition components apart from spark plugs.

However for last years RBRR we fitted all NOS ignition components to our GT6 apart from one of those fancy red rotor arms, and a set of new off the shelf Champions. The NOS condenser, contact set, and the rotor arm all failed one  after the other.

If it aint broke don't fix it!

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Works Spitfires said:

If it aint broke don't fix it!

Exactly. But carry a big hammer just in case

[Jon J 1250]

My 65 12/50 still has its original distributor cap and coil, and leads are at least 40years old. I last changed the plugs in the 90's. Not that it has covered many miles in that time... (6k miles since 1988)

[Colin Lindsay]

17 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Exactly. But carry a big hammer just in case

Works on Skodas, anyway...

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Works on Skodas, anyway...

Almost felt like taking one to mine yesterday, not really car's fault more driver error.

Got back from the weekly supermarket run, reversed car into courtyard BUT must have caught the plate in the ground that the 2 gates butt up to on its edge. By the time I had offloaded - front tyre flat! The car was bought as an ex demonstrator, only a couple of thousand Kms done. No spare only spray gunge! (previous car bought new and spare option picked). The tyre pump was able, just, to get some air in and keep it 1/2 inflated I could feel the air escaping from the inner tyre wall.

2 new tyres ordered, 35K kms done on originals but still plenty of tread GRRRRR!

Also bit the bullet and ordered a 'galette' tyre and kit - no spare = no jack or tools.

When I told Madame we didn't have a spare wheel she read me the riot act . . Then in the next breath 'suggested' that due to my 'age and state of health' I wouldn't be capable of changing a wheel anyway!

The last 3 flats, over 15 years?, all meant new tyres. One flat was due to a bit of metal on a motorway, sidewall damage. The other was when I clipped a sharp bit of curb parking at work again sidewall!

Rant over, thanks Colin for giving me the excuse/reason . . .

[Josef]

On the subject of jacks in cars, my R56 Mini Cooper S came with a jack and wheel change kit. None of the modern Minis (well up to that point, some of them are monstrously large now!) have anywhere you might put a spare, and BMW are big on supplying runflats, so I never understood why they gave it a jack. It lived on a shelf in the garage till I sold the car!

[Wagger]

My last two BMW's have had runflats. I bought a proper spare from a scrappy, but the diameter is too large to fit in the well even though it is deep enough. A bald spare just fits. However, I had fitted a broader tyre with a lower profile when caravanning as a deflated runflat would not cope with towing. I do intend to fit softer ones eventually, (Pirelli Driveguard). Runflats are a bit firm. Need soft deep seats. (I have).

[daverclasper]

Well I noticed that that the points had a very weak spark, when cranking. On inspection the fixed sparking contact bit was black, the movable contact not. I gave the surfaces a quick file and points sparking better while cranking (though yellow colour?).

Also now had a (yellow with a bit of blue) spark at plugs. Engine fired reasonably quickly without the recent small cough and starter pinion releasing straightaway, though was still lumpy and not firing on all cylinders for 20 secs or so (has never done this until recently).

Wondering if points past there best?, or maybe condenser causing the blackness/possible burning?.

If parts need substituting, then would prefer to do one at a time and see  if it improves, rather than replace a few things at a time, that are maybe ok anyway? A few clues may be good as what to start on. I have most in my breakdown box anyway, so don't have to buy and no big hurry at the moment.

Could a failing coil be contributing to these symptoms?.

Mixture (good plug colour) and timing are pretty good (no pinking and plenty of power) once car warmed up.

Waiting for new plugs and will fit these, as current ones maybe past their best anyway.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Thanks

 

 

[Paul H]

On 14/01/2022 at 13:01, Chris A said:

Almost felt like taking one to mine yesterday, not really car's fault more driver error.

Got back from the weekly supermarket run, reversed car into courtyard BUT must have caught the plate in the ground that the 2 gates butt up to on its edge. By the time I had offloaded - front tyre flat! The car was bought as an ex demonstrator, only a couple of thousand Kms done. No spare only spray gunge! (previous car bought new and spare option picked). The tyre pump was able, just, to get some air in and keep it 1/2 inflated I could feel the air escaping from the inner tyre wall.

2 new tyres ordered, 35K kms done on originals but still plenty of tread GRRRRR!

Also bit the bullet and ordered a 'galette' tyre and kit - no spare = no jack or tools.

When I told Madame we didn't have a spare wheel she read me the riot act . . Then in the next breath 'suggested' that due to my 'age and state of health' I wouldn't be capable of changing a wheel anyway!

The last 3 flats, over 15 years?, all meant new tyres. One flat was due to a bit of metal on a motorway, sidewall damage. The other was when I clipped a sharp bit of curb parking at work again sidewall!

Rant over, thanks Colin for giving me the excuse/reason . . .

Purchased a 2017 plate Tucson last April , it has a full size alloy spare , wasn’t expecting that . However , a recent MOT highlighted the tyres had started to split at 14,000 miles . This was advisory and will be changed 
Paul 

[Chris A]

2 hours ago, daverclasper said:

then would prefer to do one at a time and see  if it improves,

Yes one at a time that way you will know which component was the source of the problem.

[daverclasper]

Any more thoughts?, regarding my last post could be very useful, as very ltd tinkering time available at the mo, so would be good to prioritise likely/possible, part/s culprits if pos.

Ta

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, daverclasper said:

Any more thoughts?, regarding my last post could be very useful, as very ltd tinkering time available at the mo, so would be good to prioritise likely/possible, part/s culprits if pos.

Ta

Start logically and follow the ingintion system from start to spark one item at a time

[Pete Lewis]

if the condenser has a orange lead be suspicious 

have a read   http://www.distributordoctor.com/distributor_condensers.htm

Pete

[Wagger]

14 hours ago, daverclasper said:

Any more thoughts?, regarding my last post could be very useful, as very ltd tinkering time available at the mo, so would be good to prioritise likely/possible, part/s culprits if pos.

Ta

Set the engine so that the points are closed. If possible, unplug the centre HT lead from the distributor and connect it to a good spark plug with the plug body connected to chassis. Using an insulated screwdriver with the ignition 'ON' open and close the points. You should see sparks at the plug. Sparking at the points indicates a weak capacitor (condenser). One of its functions is to suppress sparking at the points and improve it at the plugs. A poor one will result in the points arcing and blackening.

[daverclasper]

7 hours ago, Wagger said:

Sparking at the points indicates a weak capacitor (condenser). One of its functions is to suppress sparking at the points and improve it at the plugs. A poor one will result in the points arcing and blackening.

Thanks. That's interesting. As mentioned above, I now have a spark at plugs (after a bit of careful points filing as the contacts were a bit black especially on the fixed side?) and there was at the time a spark at points when opened and also when cranking, though quite weak. Car now starting much better (it wouldn't start at all, even with carb cleaner into carbs), though not left as as long as usual (at least a week), as starting it daily to tinker with issue.

Still not as good at starting, as it has been historically.

The condenser fitted is a NOS one fitted about 8 years ago (after quick failure of cheap new ones).

Will fit new points if filing is not a good idea?, therefore maybe their past their best?,

So could condenser be failing if I have a spark at points?

Cheers for the input. 

  

[Pete Lewis]

if you have sparking and blackend points its certainly looking like the condenser has a problem

Pete

[daverclasper]

Thanks, will change it.

I have been banging on about this (thanks for staying), though it's a good learning curve for me and others I can maybe help, and you also don't always get the detailed info/experience/knowledge from books/web sites/local garage etc.

Dave

[Wagger]

3 hours ago, daverclasper said:

Thanks, will change it.

I have been banging on about this (thanks for staying), though it's a good learning curve for me and others I can maybe help, and you also don't always get the detailed info/experience/knowledge from books/web sites/local garage etc.

Dave

In all of my 60 years working with motor bikes and cars, ignition problems have always been caused by the Capacitor. I have yet to have a coil fail.

[Clive]

I very recently say a brand new "Lucas" sports coil fail out of the box. Missfired after a few minutes. It was swapped for my nearly 30 year old Lucas sports coil, issue solved. The 2 initially look similar, but look closely and the new one appears to have been ade for about 25p, the can was poorly pressed, stamping poor etc. Internally not too clever either from the evidence.

I have also seen a few coils fail on events. Mainly Intermotor....  So I would not swap a good working coil just for the sake of it. 

12 hours ago, daverclasper said:

Thanks, will change it.

I have been banging on about this (thanks for staying), though it's a good learning curve for me and others I can maybe help, and you also don't always get the detailed info/experience/knowledge from books/web sites/local garage etc.

Dave

Sadly all the books were written when quality stuff was available.

If fitting a new condenser, you coud fit one of these, but at about £30 not cheap. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143382980505?hash=item21624aa799:g:TYAAAOSwepJXZq4t

The distributer doctor versions will be good, or find an old stock Lucas one (not green box, they are nasty)

[NonMember]

10 hours ago, Wagger said:

I have yet to have a coil fail.

I have. At least two. Mind you, one of those had been left dangling down the side of a Vitesse engine without its mounting bracket and then driven as daily transport for several months by an enthusiastic young driver who like country lanes.