Vitesse front brake pads

[Robin]

Need to replace the front  pads on my vitesse and I wondered if there was a particular make I should look for? Rimmer's are selling standard ones for £13 (I'm assuming that's a set) or EBC green stuff for £47. Is it worth spending the extra? 

[Steve P]

I am about to do mine and will be trying Mintex 1144`s.Supposed to be excellent.Available in the club shop i think.

Steve

[Robin]

Thanks Steve

 

Just saw this on Canley's site:

 

If fitting GBP216MINTEX to cars using Type16P & Type 16PB Imperial calipers, pad pin holes will need to be drilled out to 1/4" diameter to suit the larger pad pins.

 

Is this relevant to a mk2 vitesse?

[Colin Lindsay]

Remember that heavier pads (i.e. fast road or race) will take ages to bed in, so if you’re not using your car every day or driving like a…whatever… they may be a waste of money. I threw my EBC pads out after one season, they weren’t getting enough use to bed in properly.

[Clive]

Eh? The bedding in process is just a few short stops from high speed (Mintex at least) No need to use regularly, and the 1144 are fine from cold.

 

My EBC experience wasn't great, luckily they came in a box with teh car. Would have been gutted to pay good money for them.

The std "white box" pads are OK for gentle use, but are not great at stopping you quickly. That has been my experience. I try to use NoS asbestos pads, they have a much greater coefficient of friction than most modern pads, so stop you faster and have better feel. After that I would only be using Mintex 1144 (although if my pockets were deep enough there are even better options)

 

And yes, the actual pad shape for GT6/vitesse is all the same, but the late metric GT6 callipers used the same pad but slightly smaller pins. And they are readily available as they are used on many many fords (good news for us!) Drilling the pads is very easy, almost impossible to go wrong.

[Pete Lewis]

experience of green stuff pads early in the life of the Vit6 ownership found the only good thing was you could clean the wheels easily

it was hopeless at being used for any braking,and the sump on a roundabout seemed very likely option.

 

mintex are very good, can be a bit dusty , you may need shim steel anti squeal shims to stop pad clatter,  the plastic adhesive ones i find are 

no good.

 

if the pad chatter persists you may find a set of end loading springs which apply load from the pin to the egde of the pad works

not easy to find , some are long and need a bit of heat and a curl to fit the spring.

yes bed them from 70 -20  about 3 times dont stop the car, allow to cool and repeat two more,  again dont stop drive to cool them down 

yes def available from club shop'

Pete

[dougbgt6]

My brakes were scarily poor. I fitted some Mintex 1144s from the club shop, a vast improvement!  And now I've got my servo fixed, as good as a modern.

[JohnD]

Remember that heavier pads (i.e. fast road or race) will take ages to bed in, so if you’re not using your car every day or driving like a…whatever… they may be a waste of money. I threw my EBC pads out after one season, they weren’t getting enough use to bed in properly.

Colin,

"Bedding in" brake pads is a one-time procedure.  It's nothing to do with infrequent use.

And it takes a few minutes, given the right bit of road to do it in, never "ages".

 

See: http://www.club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1312984233/ from which I copy the Official Mintex Advice:

 

Bedding Procedure for M1144 / M1155 / M1166 

 

1) Clean discs with brake cleaner

2) Following initial brake test start with 3 or 4 light applications from 30mph down to 0mph.

After these, follow the steps below according to Material.

M1144: 6 / 7 medium pressure applications 70mph down to 30mph

M1155: 8 / 9 medium pressure applications 90mph down to 30mph

M1166: 9 / 10 medium applications 90mph down to 30mph

When carrying out the bedding process, do not allow the brakes to drag, do not left foot brake. To do so may result in damage to, or failure of the brake system.

Leave the brakes to completely cool.

 

For Further information please contact Richard Barton on 01274-854030

 

The purpose and procedure of brake bedding is nothing to do with conforming them to the wear pattern on your discs.  If your discs are that worn, then you need new discs!

Instead it is to heat them to the highest temperature they are likely to see in use, to drive off any residual volatiles from manufacture and to condition the materials.

 

Mind you, I completely agree about any EBC product.

John

[Robin]

Thanks to everyone for their advice. So if I did opt for the Mintex ones, do the holes need drilling for vitesse calipers or will my current pins fit ok. If drilling is required, how do I do this?

[Pete Lewis]

The pin holes will drill with a normal drill bit of the right size in a hand battery or power drill hold pad ina clamp or vice

the pad backing is not hardened , so it drills quite easily

 

if the pin boles are elongated it may tend to jam the drill so take it slowly, and use side loading on the drill to replecate the elongated hole,

 

There again you may not need to do this they could be a straight easy swap

if you have calpers with small pins they fit the pads with good clearance if you want to fit big pins in a small pin caliper its just drill the existing hole tomfit the bigger pin

its only a casting so drills by hand , battery , orpower easilly

 

pete

[JohnD]

if the pin boles are elongated it may tend to jam the drill so take it slowly, and use side loading on the drill to replecate the elongated hole,

 

pete

 

Drills (unlike die grinders) are not designed with bearings to take side loads, and this will risk breaking the drill, which is likewise intended for straight up and down use.  And the lands aren't sharpened or hardened!

Drill it out, and use a small round file to complete the slotting.

 

John, the pedantic workshop user.

[Colin Lindsay]

Colin,

"Bedding in" brake pads is a one-time procedure.  It's nothing to do with infrequent use.

And it takes a few minutes, given the right bit of road to do it in, never "ages".

 

See: http://www.club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl?m-1312984233/ from which I copy the Official Mintex Advice:

 

Bedding Procedure for M1144 / M1155 / M1166 

 

1) Clean discs with brake cleaner

2) Following initial brake test start with 3 or 4 light applications from 30mph down to 0mph.

After these, follow the steps below according to Material.

M1144: 6 / 7 medium pressure applications 70mph down to 30mph

M1155: 8 / 9 medium pressure applications 90mph down to 30mph

M1166: 9 / 10 medium applications 90mph down to 30mph

When carrying out the bedding process, do not allow the brakes to drag, do not left foot brake. To do so may result in damage to, or failure of the brake system.

Leave the brakes to completely cool.

 

For Further information please contact Richard Barton on 01274-854030

 

The purpose and procedure of brake bedding is nothing to do with conforming them to the wear pattern on your discs.  If your discs are that worn, then you need new discs!

Instead it is to heat them to the highest temperature they are likely to see in use, to drive off any residual volatiles from manufacture and to condition the materials.

 

Mind you, I completely agree about any EBC product.

John

Thanks John, my mistake. I fitted new discs and pads recently and the instructions were that they can take up to 800 miles to properly bed in; 3 - 400 with worn discs but longer on brand new ones. Even my Clio discs and pads, changed for new items two weeks ago, still haven’t got the contact band for the full width of the disc after 200 miles or so. The EBC pads just didn’t get the mileage to do anything at all…  

[Clive]

Solution=use the car more!

[dougbgt6]

The club shop sell both metric and imperial 1144s so no need to mess around with drills. Speak to Gareth. Under no circumstances use asbestos pads, they may save you in a car crash but they will kill you, very slowly and, painfully.

[Clive]

Doug, please do not suggest such nonsense about asbestos. It only needs a few sensible precautions and they are entirely safe. Just follow the instructions. They come on the box. Remember pre 1999 virtually all brake pads and shoes were asbestos. And asbestos could still be fitted by garages until 2004. So we have all driven and maintained asbestos equipped cars for many many years with very few people contracting asbestosis or other asbestos related diseases. I suspect most who sadly have will be smokers (smoking doesn't just double your chances of lung disease but multiplies it many times) or were sloppy with precautions. Oh, don't forget most fibre type gaskets used to contain asbestos pre 1999. So all the old stock gaskets that people use, or are already in the engines, are death traps too?? (actually I have seen people use wire brushes in drills to clean gasket material, not clever.) 

 

Maybe we should all give up doing anything to our cars as used oil is very nasty and cause cancer. How about banning convertibles because of the risk of skin cancer? And how safe is the dust from modern brake pads? No, I have no idea either.

 

Have a look here for more info

http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/mechanical-repair/asbestos.htm

[dougbgt6]

Clive, to say that asbestos was considered safe before such and such a date is fallacious and carries no credence what so ever!  We now know that asbestos is VERY dangerous stuff. But you are still chucking it into the environment, I think there might be a case to prosecute you?

[Guest]

Hello.

 

I'm currently using some TRW specification brake pads at the moment on my Mk2 - the reference is GDB541. 

 

These were fitted after I overhauled my braking system with BF Goodridge hoses, new calipers and EBC drilled & grooved discs.

 

The pads took about 100 miles to bed in, but they now grip exceptionally well even from cold.

 

As you probably know TRW absorbed Mintex; but interestingly enough I have just read that Mintex pads are going to be released again covering vehicles from the 50's onwards. The article is in CCW dated 23/09/2015 and the pads will start appearing in retailers in 2016.  A couple of websites have been flagged: www.questmead.co.uk and www.mintexclassic.com

 

On another line, I also see there are some original Unipart pads on Ebay 331667800410 which will contain asbestos. I agree with Clive that there is no problem with pads containing asbestos. Just use common sense when cleaning and changing them. If you stick your face right in to them blow the dust out; then need I say more !! ?? 

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

[Clive]

Doug, I never said asbestos was not harmful. I did say follow the instructions and all would be well. 

Have you read the HSE document? Or had any education about asbestos? It appears not, at least not from any credible source. 

Please, read the document that the government has published, and rely on facts rather here-say. Or worse, the Daily Mail.

I spent some time working doing asbestos analysis and testing. Many years ago now, but I do understand the dangers and how to deal with the risks. 

If the rate of asbestos related diseases is very low amongst mechanics who worked changing brakes/clutches/gaskets etc all day every day, often with scant regard to safety or common sense (like the people who don't wear eye protection when grinding, gloves when coming into contact with oil and so on) then as drivers and occasional fixers of cars, our risk is tiny. Or approaching zero if we follow the instructions.

Still, if you wish to bring a private prosecution, go ahead. Not sure on what grounds though? I am not breaking any rules. There are other more worthy targets for you out there at the moment......(diesel car manufacturers for a start)

[dougbgt6]

Thanks for that Clive! Just what I'd expect. Unbelievable!

[Clive]

I apologise if my post offended you. 

I do hope you read the document, it is quite concise for something produced by the HSE.

[Guest]

On a lighter note, there is some superb film archive on the above Mintex link under Classic Footage. 

 

Worth clicking and watching. You even have an opportunity to win some Mintex brake pads / shoes.

 

Regards.

 

Richard.

[dougbgt6]

Here is a quote from the HSE The important word to look out for is, BANNED!

 

"In the past, asbestos was used in motor vehicles as the friction material in clutches, automatic transmission and brake linings, and in gaskets. The use of asbestos in these components was prohibited from 1999, with the exception that pre 1973 vehicles could continue to be fitted with asbestos containing brake shoes until 2004. Therefore, it is possible that some older and 'classic' vehicles could still contain these asbestos containing products. The supply, possession for supply and fitting of asbestos products to motor vehicle, trailers etc is now banned. Care should be taken when removing an existing component that you suspect may contain asbestos (which must be replaced by one which is asbestos-free)"

 

Here is the full text.

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/mechanical-repair/asbestos.htm

[JohnD]

Thanks John, my mistake. I fitted new discs and pads recently and the instructions were that they can take up to 800 miles to properly bed in; 3 - 400 with worn discs but longer on brand new ones. Even my Clio discs and pads, changed for new items two weeks ago, still haven’t got the contact band for the full width of the disc after 200 miles or so. The EBC pads just didn’t get the mileage to do anything at all…

Was this EBC advice?  Confirms my opinion about them.

 

On exposure to asbestos:   Two diseases can result, asbestosis that eventually kills you as your lungs get too stiff to work and mesothelioma, a cancer of the outer lining of the lung.  Both take a long time to develop, the cancer 40+ years after exposure, but then kills you very quickly.   Asbestosis can take a long time, during which you wish you were dead.     Neither are good ways to die.     Asbestos isn't dangerous, unless it can get into the air so you can breath in the very fine fibres, so in buildings where it was used as for instance insulation, it may be sealed in, until it must be removed for repair or demolition.     Then it is a big problem, as those very fine fibres take to the air very easily.    It was such a health risk to workers that it was banned as described above, but it is also a risk to anybody exposed, and mesotheliomas still occur - they are specific to asbestos exposure, and so it is to the benefit of public health, not just workers that asbestos is not used, and expertly removed when it must be disturbed.   That expert care includes sealing the work area, with air locks etc.

 

So encouraging anyone to use asbestos brake pads, whose wear dust will be blown around and breathed in by anyone, old or young, is IRRESPONSIBLE IN THE EXTREME.   Yes, you can minimise your own risk by following HSE recommendations when working on your brakes, but then leave a miasma of dangerous dust behind you wherever you travel.     We can expect to see mesotheliomas many years into the future, in those who are babies today if people go one using asbestos brake pads.

 

John

[Peaks]

My two penneth: Having tried EBC Green Stuff on several different cars they really are not any better than cheaper pads. Mintex 1144 however transformed the braking on my Vitesse. The TSSC supplied the correct pads for my 1970 car and they needed no modification at all. 

 

As for asbestos pads, I'm not encouraging anyone to do anything, but using up the very few remaining asbestos based pads remaining in the world is really not going to make any difference to anyone's health (assuming a modicum of common sense and no one is actually snorting the dust). The real issue was when asbestos was pretty much everywhere in daily life. 

[Clive]

As an aside, I have just nabbed a well priced set of Ferodo DS2500 pads off fleabay. I believe they are more fade resistant than Mintex 1144, so once bedded in will be preserved for trackday use. I think they retail at £100ish a set, and their qualities are not required on a daily basis. Besides, swapping pads is pretty quick to do, and gives the opportunity for a clean up etc at the same time.