Spitfire mkIV/1500 Hardtop rear seal Info required

[Clive]

I have a late spit hardtop I wish to pop on my car. It is bare, but I have the traingle 1/4light seals, and the L shaped side window seals. I know it needs a front header rail type seal, but I am struggling to understand the rear seal.

Has anybody got a picture of a hard top which shows the seal, and the seal type. It is possible I do already have it (I have a length of small edge trim that is a perfect fit lengthwise, but I can't see how it would seal against the body) Rimmers show this as the seal they supply, which has a bubble profile. 

[Badwolf]

Clive - I have a list of seals from Baines which I remember that I was going to route out and post for someone else, possibly Mathew,, but forgot. I will try to find it later. The rear seal does look to be unusual in that it appears to go around the inner lip of the hardtop, leaving the outer lip as a sort of drip line. Most of the photos on-line show tops in a poor state with no seals, indeed some with little metal!

[Colin Lindsay]

That photo from Rimmers might not be the actual seal; that looks more like door bubble seal.

The seal appears to be a U-shaped push-on that pushes up onto the lower edge of the hardtop with, as BW says, an extra bit to keep drips out. Paddocks seem to sell a chunky seal that would squash against the rear deck, and on checking Rimmers' site I found a slightly different version from the original photo:

 

[Badwolf]

Found this is my list of sample photos. It's not mine but it might help a little..

Still not found my list yet.

[Badwolf]

OK. I have dug out a list of comparative seals which COH Barines were listing.

The list is over 18 months old so some products may not be available.  I must stress that I have not actually tried these and list them for guidance only...

Front header seal - IRS1599EP

U Channel Draft Seal - Moquette - ET32M Black (I think that this was to go around the front windows)

Rear Deck Seal DX79 or DX82

Quarter-Light Window Seal - Moquette Interior SN42M Black, Without Moquette DX75, DX71

Padd*cks list a 'Hardtop rear lower seal ref 624831 but the photo does not show the profile, side seal left/right 7161834, front seal 629584, foam Pad Hardtop to deck 624876, quarterlight seals 813861-71, front inner seal 630961, seating pad 624746.

Hope that this helps.

 

[Clive]

16 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

OK. I have dug out a list of comparative seals which COH Barines were listing.

The list is over 18 months old so some products may not be available.  I must stress that I have not actually tried these and list them for guidance only...

Front header seal - IRS1599EP

U Channel Draft Seal - Moquette - ET32M Black (I think that this was to go around the front windows)

Rear Deck Seal DX79 or DX82

Quarter-Light Window Seal - Moquette Interior SN42M Black, Without Moquette DX75, DX71

Padd*cks list a 'Hardtop rear lower seal ref 624831 but the photo does not show the profile, side seal left/right 7161834, front seal 629584, foam Pad Hardtop to deck 624876, quarterlight seals 813861-71, front inner seal 630961, seating pad 624746.

Hope that this helps.

 

Interesting with your Baines numbers. The ones you quote for the rear seal are like this 

 

But having looked at the hardtiop, I think a side bubble will be better, the lip on the hardtop appears to sit just inside of the bodytub lip. I will see if I can get the lady wife to help with a trial fit without seals first. Have  alook and then order the wrong seal!

 

[Badwolf]

Clive - I was of the opinion that the hardtop actually sat on top of the seal pushing it against the body. Unfortunately mine came with a selection of rubbers none of which were attached and many not complete/perished. Some might even have been from other things. I will be very interested in what you finally decide. There are very few photos around on the net to help. I will have a look to see if I have any other reference pictures which might help, among the ones that I collected to guide my, somewhat aborted restoration of mine.

[Badwolf]

Try these. If there are any that might help, I will try to enhance a selective area for you.

[Clive]

9 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

Clive - I was of the opinion that the hardtop actually sat on top of the seal pushing it against the body. Unfortunately mine came with a selection of rubbers none of which were attached and many not complete/perished. Some might even have been from other things. I will be very interested in what you finally decide. There are very few photos around on the net to help. I will have a look to see if I have any other reference pictures which might help, among the ones that I collected to guide my, somewhat aborted restoration of mine.

It will be Thursday before I get the chance to do a "dry run", but will try to remember to take some pics. Even they will be difficult as I am hoping to not remove the soft top for the trial. (unless the boss is happy to have a go when she gets home this evening. Maybe I should cook dinner....)

I need to find something to substitute the rubber blocks as they are unavailable. I have some thickish rubber matting, I can glue layers to get the correct height.

And you have done well to find those pictures, much better than I found. But all point to a "side bubble"

[Badwolf]

I wonder if Baines have a list of recommended seals for various cars/lids? Just a thought.

[Colin Lindsay]

11 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

I wonder if Baines have a list of recommended seals for various cars/lids? Just a thought.

I don't know if Baines list their seals for applications, they admittedly do list some for specific vehicles, but for a goodly number they just list the seals and illustrate the profile, and you work out the necessary for your needs?

[Badwolf]

Sadly, when the original looks like a deflated, decomposed balloon it doesn't help much.

[Clive]

4 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

Sadly, when the original looks like a deflated, decomposed balloon it doesn't help much.

Are we talking seals?

[Clive]

42 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

I don't know if Baines list their seals for applications, they admittedly do list some for specific vehicles, but for a goodly number they just list the seals and illustrate the profile, and you work out the necessary for your needs?

I have spent too long looking at the profiles, but I expect they don't have the knowledge to say how the seals were used. Rtaher leave it to the customer to choose. (probably why so many traders sell bubble profile seals for herald/vitesse when it should be a "fin" profile)

[Badwolf]

1 hour ago, clive said:

Are we talking seals?

Actually sounds very much like me!! 😄

[Dick Twitchen]

Standing back aghast at the affrontery of being constructive (😉 ) perhaps somebody on the Forum with time, experience of, and solutions to, this issue could volunteer to take the lead and pull together a grid of Baines numbers versus specific model usage.  Useful to the whole TSSC/Triumph community.

Dick

[Pete Lewis]

if you search thetabs and select Triumph you get what they know fits what  theses a lot of things there we didnt know about 

Triumph (coh-baines.co.uk)

[PeteH]

Anyone fitted one of their Herald windscreen rubbers?.

Pete

[Clive]

I have made a decision. Hopefully a good one....

I have ordered a std spit header rail seal (in fact 3m, so enough for a spare) 

For the rear seal, I did a dry fit, but with the hood still fitted (folded down) and a roll bar fitted with a polycarb screen, the best I could do was feel the gap. About a finger thickness, maybe 15mm

So I have gone overkill, and ordered a large bubble seal, the bubble will not be visible and the exces should tuck away but will definately seal against the tub.  Hopefully here in a few days, we may need the hardtop as off to Wales in 2 weeks (followed by a silverstone trackday on the monday).

I have also ordered some mutemat (like silentcoat etc etc) and will use some stretch carpet (used for walls etc in campervans) to line the roof. I may put a thin layer of close cell foam under the carpet layer, we shall see....

[rlubikey]

Hi Clive. I bought new seals for my hard top in about 1990 and I've hardly used it since then. It lives in the house so doesn't see temperature extremes.

The two pads with the slots where the rear fitting bolts go through measure 7.5mm x 51mm x 22.5mm. These pads are made of VERY hard rubber, so they do NOT compress as you tighten the bolts, otherwise you get a lovely outline imprint on the rear deck!

The other two pads (without the slots) are the same but made of softer rubber. They either conform to the soft top, or seal the soft top fitting holes if you un-bolt the rear bar.

The other furflex seal is very similar to the modern - incorrect - stuff supplied for the doors.

<Just went to check and you've replied since then>

It is a "bubble" type furflex similar to the stuff you've ordered, but the bubble cross-section is triangular. I would say that what you've ordered will fit, but it might initially be a bit firm tightening down. With time it will settle in.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Richard

[Clive]

6 minutes ago, rlubikey said:

Hi Clive. I bought new seals for my hard top in about 1990 and I've hardly used it since then. It lives in the house so doesn't see temperature extremes.

The two pads with the slots where the rear fitting bolts go through measure 7.5mm x 51mm x 22.5mm. These pads are made of VERY hard rubber, so they do NOT compress as you tighten the bolts, otherwise you get a lovely outline imprint on the rear deck!

The other two pads (without the slots) are the same but made of softer rubber. They either conform to the soft top, or seal the soft top fitting holes if you un-bolt the rear bar.

The other furflex seal is very similar to the modern - incorrect - stuff supplied for the doors.

<Just went to check and you've replied since then>

It is a "bubble" type furflex similar to the stuff you've ordered, but the bubble cross-section is triangular. I would say that what you've ordered will fit, but it might initially be a bit firm tightening down. With time it will settle in.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Richard

I went for the larger seal as it also appears a bit floppier, some of the bubble stuff is rather firm.

The info on the rubber pads is very useful. I have some 3mm or so commercial rubber matting, so a double layer of that may work (glued with polyurethane sealant/adhesive, or possibly Fixall, my current favorite for sealing showers/worktops)

The car actually looks rather smart even without the hardtop glass. I painted it black, nice sharp contrast to the yellow. Better looking than the soft top. 

[Badwolf]

Keep us updated on how well it fits Clive, along with any other rubbers, as, as you may have gathered, I have an interest.

I was lucky with my solid rubber pads as Mathew had a set he let me have. They are still off the car so if you need pictures, I can help.

[Clive]

I think I may have the rubber pads, but absolutely no idea where. 

But yes, once the rubbers arrive and I get a chance, I will start putting it together and get it on teh car.

Somewhere I have all the brackets, but again location is unknown.....

[Badwolf]

I have a box with all the hardtop fittings in it, except for the metal trim that goes across the back. Unfortunately, as I have mentioned, the rubbers are in a dreadful state, perished, split, in multiple bits and some are from...who knows where and don't appear to have any relevance to the car at all. I can only assume that they were 'acquired' on a scrapyard trip in years gone by, which shows how old they are? That reminds me, I offered to measure the diameter of the headlining retainers for someone and forgot...doh...sorry. Will look them out over the weekend. 

[Clive]