Breaks pulling to the left

[peterthegreat]

hello everyone,

For the past ccouple of years I have been struggling with my Spit mk3 breaks pulling to the left. When doing reasonable speeds 30 mph or so there is not much 'pull' resulting in only a few inches to the left when the breaks are locked up. At higher speeds then the pull becomes quite a lot and just not correct to an extent it would be unhealthy to take on something like the M25

So here goes the list of things I have changed (not all for the break pulling!)

1. Recon Chasis/top/bottom wishbones
2. Stub axels/ trunion and ball joint
3. EBC slotted disks and yellow stuff pads (they didnt have any green and said the yellow was even better, including normal day /lesure use)
4. New recon calipers (14's) from TRGB
5. New kuffner break pipes all round + new girling braded flexible hoses
6. New seals etc in the master cylinder

And it still pulls.

So I have

1. made sure the caliper pisons move in and out ok, seem to have similar resistance when I push them back with a couple of screwdrivers by hand - so they are not the normal stuck state
2. tried moving the pads from near side to off side (its only done a few 100's of miles) - no change - assume its not the pads
3. tried moving the whole front hub inc disk and pads to the other side- no change still pulls to the left - assume its not the disks or pads or items with the hub
4. measured if the disk was in the centre of the calipers - result is 0.006" difference - seems negilbile
5. Checked the 4 way pipe junction/spliter for dirt or something jamming one line - not the junction
6. replaced the near side break pipe again, just for good luck (it seemed a bit long anyway)
7. Checked the pipe from 4 way junction to off side  - no kinks I can find
8. got my friendly MOT man to put in on his rolling road and it shows the left about 10-20% stronger than the right

Only thing I haven't changed temporarily is the calipers,  as I they are handed. So even if they were refurbs 2 years ago perhaps something has happened to them?

What do you think any other ideas before a fork out another £100?

thanks

Peter

[Waynebaby]

Peter

When I first got my GT6 it used to try to climb on the pavement whenever I used the brakes. My problem turned out to be badly worn steering rack bushes which meant that the rack could float back and forth by about 1". I think that applying the brakes encouraged the car to head down the road camber and towards the gutter. Just a thought.

Wayne

[foshi]

weak spring , tracking chassis damage ?

[peterthegreat]

The springs are about 4 years old, look fine but not sure how else to check?

Steering rack doesn't seem to have play in it. Did you see this simply by turning the wheel assembly back and forth and its effect on the steering wheel? If so I havent noticed such a large amount but can check again tomorrow

[Pete Lewis]

if the brake dyno showed 20% variance then its the foundation braking thats the problem 

tracking and suspension will move with braking loads and this will affect geomerty as it dives when braking but the dyno has the 20% imbalance 

so the other thing is hub end float ,is it excess or unusual pushing pads back so initial pad load is unbalanced 

was the dyno man talking front or rear brakes 

rear braking will vere the car if shoes mih=ght have the trailing shoes upside down or grooves in the backplate restricting cylinder slide

or even tention in the HB cable holding shoes open 

and does the brake pull take youre steering wheel with it  or not  

Pete

 

[trigolf]

I'd also check your top shock bushes, in the centre of the top spring pan. Years ago I had some Spax shocks and the NS top Bush wore out very quickly. This caused the car to try and dive into the hedge, particularly under braking. When I eventually found the problem, the whole shock was flopping about!

[peterthegreat]

The difference seen on the dyno was on the front. At the back he noticed that one drum didnt seem round (even if new from rimmers) the rear drums  have since been changed but I havent tested them again with the MOT man.

I can't say I noticed about the steering being pulled, natural reaction to try and correct but was it pulling, it may be or may not. Can check that tomorrow.

For end float of the hub back and forth, I dont think there is any but again will check in the morning.

thanks for the suggestions

[peterthegreat]

The top bushes of the shocks were changed last winter, it was a tight fit 

[peterthegreat]

on the steering pulling, its not so bad its janking the steering wheel to the left in a harsh way

[Pete Lewis]

so the question is  is the braking making the car steer accepting a 20% imbalance  is the steering leading the vere  rather than a brake pulling you over ??

if you held the stg wheel does it keep her straight ??

Pete

[Peter Truman]

Try moderns with lane departure correction, you really have to fight the steering!!!

[dougbgt6]

Maybe time for a front suspension poly bush upgrade? Also forget green and yellow pads, Mintex 11/44s are the dog's proverbials.

Doug

[johny]

I know the EBC Green pads are poor but think the yellow are supposed to be much better so worth sticking with for a while yet....

[Pete Lewis]

11 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Try moderns with lane departure correction,

thats amust have they make when ive been steering cars for 60 years  the ne C5X you have to navigate the touch screen to turn the ruddy thing off 

i find it very disconcerting that the car can have amind of its own above the drivers competence 

there must be a lot of plonkers in the modern world 

the C4 had a  delete  button  much easier to condem it to the dust bin 

and must add any pad thats not black makes wheel cleaning easy but none stop the car when needed 

mintex 1144 are as Doug says the  D B's    (notice thats dougs initials  too  ) !!!!!!

Pete

Pete

[Clive]

17 hours ago, peterthegreat said:

hello everyone,

For the past ccouple of years I have been struggling with my Spit mk3 breaks pulling to the left. When doing reasonable speeds 30 mph or so there is not much 'pull' resulting in only a few inches to the left when the breaks are locked up. At higher speeds then the pull becomes quite a lot and just not correct to an extent it would be unhealthy to take on something like the M25

So here goes the list of things I have changed (not all for the break pulling!)

1. Recon Chasis/top/bottom wishbones
2. Stub axels/ trunion and ball joint
3. EBC slotted disks and yellow stuff pads (they didnt have any green and said the yellow was even better, including normal day /lesure use)
4. New recon calipers (14's) from TRGB
5. New kuffner break pipes all round + new girling braded flexible hoses
6. New seals etc in the master cylinder

And it still pulls.

So I have

1. made sure the caliper pisons move in and out ok, seem to have similar resistance when I push them back with a couple of screwdrivers by hand - so they are not the normal stuck state
2. tried moving the pads from near side to off side (its only done a few 100's of miles) - no change - assume its not the pads
3. tried moving the whole front hub inc disk and pads to the other side- no change still pulls to the left - assume its not the disks or pads or items with the hub
4. measured if the disk was in the centre of the calipers - result is 0.006" difference - seems negilbile
5. Checked the 4 way pipe junction/spliter for dirt or something jamming one line - not the junction
6. replaced the near side break pipe again, just for good luck (it seemed a bit long anyway)
7. Checked the pipe from 4 way junction to off side  - no kinks I can find
8. got my friendly MOT man to put in on his rolling road and it shows the left about 10-20% stronger than the right

Only thing I haven't changed temporarily is the calipers,  as I they are handed. So even if they were refurbs 2 years ago perhaps something has happened to them?

What do you think any other ideas before a fork out another £100?

thanks

Peter

Have you checked or swapped the flexible hoses? 

Has this problem always been there or started after fitting all the new stuff?

Is this single line brakes or split?

Lastly,  a local bought new drums for his vitesse. Obviously out of round, sent back and eventually sourced some NoS ones. So new brake drums are now a real issue.

[peterthegreat]

Status update:

The problem was there before I did the quite extensive list of things above, only think I can think of is not changing the steering rack but I cant find any play on either side.

The is no noticeble play in hubs, flexi hoses changed 2 weeks ago, single line Mk3 system.Quite a few of the bushes are upgraded to poly. I include a picture for reference. I think the break is pulling it over to the left when I drive it, rather than the steering

 

[Chilliman]

7 hours ago, peterthegreat said:

The problem was there before I did the quite extensive list of things above

In that case I think I would start with some very basic geometry checks before you go any further- distance between nearside front/rear hub centres compared to offside for starters (I.e. wheelbase)

[Adrian Cooper]

On 04/11/2022 at 16:58, peterthegreat said:

hello everyone,

For the past ccouple of years I have been struggling with my Spit mk3 breaks pulling to the left. When doing reasonable speeds 30 mph or so there is not much 'pull' resulting in only a few inches to the left when the breaks are locked up. At higher speeds then the pull becomes quite a lot and just not correct to an extent it would be unhealthy to take on something like the M25

So here goes the list of things I have changed (not all for the break pulling!)

1. Recon Chasis/top/bottom wishbones
2. Stub axels/ trunion and ball joint
3. EBC slotted disks and yellow stuff pads (they didnt have any green and said the yellow was even better, including normal day /lesure use)
4. New recon calipers (14's) from TRGB
5. New kuffner break pipes all round + new girling braded flexible hoses
6. New seals etc in the master cylinder

And it still pulls.

So I have

1. made sure the caliper pisons move in and out ok, seem to have similar resistance when I push them back with a couple of screwdrivers by hand - so they are not the normal stuck state
2. tried moving the pads from near side to off side (its only done a few 100's of miles) - no change - assume its not the pads
3. tried moving the whole front hub inc disk and pads to the other side- no change still pulls to the left - assume its not the disks or pads or items with the hub
4. measured if the disk was in the centre of the calipers - result is 0.006" difference - seems negilbile
5. Checked the 4 way pipe junction/spliter for dirt or something jamming one line - not the junction
6. replaced the near side break pipe again, just for good luck (it seemed a bit long anyway)
7. Checked the pipe from 4 way junction to off side  - no kinks I can find
8. got my friendly MOT man to put in on his rolling road and it shows the left about 10-20% stronger than the right

Only thing I haven't changed temporarily is the calipers,  as I they are handed. So even if they were refurbs 2 years ago perhaps something has happened to them?

What do you think any other ideas before a fork out another £100?

thanks

Peter

Peter, have you checked the tightness of the bolts that hold the wishbone brackets to the chassis? I had a similar problem with my Mk2 a long time ago and this was the cause of the problem. 

Adrian

[Pete Lewis]

and make sure the brackets are the correct way up  as fitted upside down couls give you too much dive under braking creating a steer 

from memory front offset  points up the rear points down

Front Suspension : Canley Classics

Pete

[PeteH]

On 04/11/2022 at 21:08, Peter Truman said:

Try moderns with lane departure correction, you really have to fight the steering!!!

The first thing I switched out. The Nissan comes with a bloody alarm as well. I’ve been forbidden to permanently disable the auto stop start though by herself. 
Pete

[Pete Lewis]

cant switch mine out for good as soon as you  fire up........... I'M    BACK !!!!

Pete

[PeteH]

2 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

cant switch mine out for good as soon as you  fire up........... I'M    BACK !!!!

Pete

The “trick” according to one of the tech boys. Is the fact that allegedly there is a bonnet switch which allows the tec guys/gals to run the engine during servicing. You are supposed to wire it permanently open?.

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

thats interesting               what warranty???  

wonder where thats lurking 

Pete

[PeteH]

If, said switch exists?. Just decoupling one terminal should be enough?. As for warranty? Who would know?.

pete

[Waynebaby]

Steering rack doesn't seem to have play in it. Did you see this simply by turning the wheel assembly back and forth and its effect on the steering wheel? If so I havent noticed such a large amount but can check again tomorrow

Hi Peter,

Sorry for the delay in replying. The play in the steering rack mounts was obvious when watching the rack whilst the steering wheel was waggled. The rack waggled back and forth along with the steering wheel .

Wayne