Non starting herald

[daverclasper]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

i would also add check the coil is being fed while cranking as worn ign switch terminals can give problems 

Maybe a hot wire direct from battery to coil, for a test?

[iana]

1 hour ago, foshi said:

when you say wont start is it trying to fire , if not good spark at points spark from points whilst turning the engine  over ignition on , if yes move to carb spray east start or pour some petrol into carb does the engine now try to start? have you checked the king lead from coil to dist is ok, its got to be something simple 

It turns over as normal but won’t fire (which is really odd as the herald was always the easy one to start) it did initially try and fire but just spluttered and stopped, a squirt of easy start will get it to try to fire just can’t get it to run. when I first took the carb off there was a list of crud in it, I blew everything through so I assumed it was clean, hence why I’m thinking the fuel may be stale. Just don’t know how to check it.

[daverclasper]

9 minutes ago, iana said:

hence why I’m thinking the fuel may be stale. Just don’t know how to check it.

Hi Iana. A remote, direct feed of fresh petrol, from a petrol can to the carb inlet feed, maybe

[iana]

I’d thought about just before the fuel pump (I want to fit a fuel filter anyway) and then pump the fresh fuel through, just guess I need to empty the float chamber again

[Pete Lewis]

stale fuel     seems to be a good excuse for some other problem

in all the years of winter lay ups i have never found fuel as a problem , in fact nothing has ever failed to start

last year we started a Mk1 spitty that had layed up for 6 years and once primed it started fine ( yes maybe fuel was better then )  

really old fuel (years )  will clog up and cause chaos  but not a few months of sleep 

Pete

 

[Chris A]

51 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

stale fuel     seems to be a good excuse for some other problem

in all the years of winter lay ups i have never found fuel as a problem

Same here, never had any problems due to stale fuel after a winter lay up and I have used 95 in the past before 'upgrading' to 98.

[Pete Lewis]

maybe we need a Myths and legends post   Ha 

Pete

[PeteH]

As with all "Myth and Legend" there is usually a grain of truth in the background. Badly stored fuel, does suffer most often due to the condition of storage, Moisture content, sediment, all have been shown to make a difference, however marginal. Impirically, I do know that the use of E10, and to a lesser extent E5, DOES make getting a good clean start out of my Generator and Chain Saw require more effort, to the point I now run them dry if I think they will be stood for some time, and have given up storing fuel for more than a few weeks. The viability of the petroleum content itself is not the issue, it`s the contaminents. My own experience, lies in truth, more with heavy Fuel Oils, where heating and refining before using for firing or injection was indeed the norm. Also, I have never, deliberately, laid a vehicle up with a part tank of fuel. Either completely drained down, which has it`s own issues, or as full as practicable, which I prefer.

18 hours ago, iana said:

it did initially try and fire but just spluttered and stopped,

I`m afraid there is no easy fix on this, just a process of elimination, the mere fact that it tries to start will not elimenate it being an ignition issue. Other here have made suggestions, it a question of patient detection.

Pete

 

 

Pete

[foshi]

first thing to do is check you have a spark wont start with out that at the dist  plugs paul

[Peter Truman]

Two separate club members here have had E5 fuel problems after long storage, a Mini Cooper and a 2500PI, both refused to start not even a splutter, re mini syphoned the tank and refilled with new fuel and an immediate start, car had stood over a year, the PI after a 4 month layup topped up with 3 gallons of new fuel and after 15 sec cranking away we went.

I use a local product called Fuel Doctor to stabilize the fuel and stop tank corrosion seems to maintain fuel volatility with 2 monthly starts 

[PeteH]

Pete.

I think, the current alleged issues with E5/E10 in older vehicles have been insufficienty Scientifically researched, no incentive? to so do because of the low numbers involved and the rush to to "electrification", makes those involved uninterested in the future? of petroleum. So we have a situation where there is only impirical evidence of what/if is the position.

My own opinion?, centres about the ignition systems where modern cars have far more "oomph" in the spark dept; and find less issue with fuel not in the best of condition?. More so in the cold state where there is no pre heating to assist evaporation. I know, but only from being told by a driver, that Ethanol is generally only added to the Fuel blend as the delivery tanker is being filled, again alleged to be because of issues with longer term storage of the fuel mix?. My Genny and the chain saw see less use these days, which is where I have most issues.

Pete

[Chris A]

Although I have no problems with the Herald ( that's cursed it) after the winter lay up, although it does get run occasionally, the mower, strimmer & hedge trimmer all cause me grief. I put it down to them becoming damp during storage and move them into the boiler room for a few days before their annual service to dry them out. Maybe next year I'll try putting freshly bought petrol in to see if that makes a difference.

[Mark B]

What's the battery condition? There's turning over an engine, and really spinning the engine over. It can make a big difference in starting a car thats stood for a while, especially if the battery is old. You need a strong ignition spark at the same time as the starter is drawing a lot of power cranking the engine. Try jump starting the car to give it an extra boost on turnover.  Also if you have had the leads off, check the firing order. In the past I've cured one fault and created another, with lots of head scrataching. It will run eventually, good luck.

[Pete Lewis]

reminder on firing orders  always anticlockwise at the dizzy cap

once you know where no1 rotor position is for TDC compression stroke 

4 pot    1 3 4 2

6pot    15 36 24

to check NO 1 TDC   remove plugs  , stick thumb over plug hole ,     turn engine slowly till air gets past the thumb  

stop ...now turn to align the TDC pointer    you are on compression stroke

now look where the rotor is pointing  thats where No1 HT lead needs to start

if you want to remove the rocker box turn to align tdc ponters  and check you have a gap under each of No 1 rockers 

if no gap turn one more turn try  try again 

using thumb saves a  rocker gasket /leak 

Pete

[daverclasper]

On 02/01/2023 at 12:11, Pete Lewis said:

maybe we need a Myths and legends post   Ha 

I think that is a really good idea. Also what is acceptable in the world of average driving style/low annual milaege.  

[iana]

In the end I took the carb off the car so I could have another look at the issue and clean out the float again, I’d left the carb on the bench in the garage and when I stripped it today, the residual fuel had gone to a jelly like substance and it felt like the carb was damp with water, I’ve cleaned it out again and put it back together. It’s been suggested that I should get a jar and pump some fuel through and leave it to stand for a while and it will separate if the ethanol has split form the fuel - is this worth doing?

[Pete Lewis]

with the carb off its always worth priming intoa jar to see what youhave

this may be contaminated and may not  be E related 

Pete

[iana]

Well the carb is cleaned, rebuilt and now fitted, however I emptied the fuel from the pump to the carb, and it’s an odd colour. So I tried a separate fuel supply and she’s running again! The top jar is new fuel and the bottom jar is the old fuel - plus I clean a load of crud out of the fuel pump. Just need to empty the fuel tank and give her a service.

[Pete Lewis]

contaminated fuel can get in in many ways without you knowing 

be that from a can or even the pumps   

Lidl are doing their electric pump for a few £  makes sucking out the tank a lot easier than tank removal 

i dont advise using the drain plug as they tend to sieze and you ripthe  spout out the tank 

Pete

[foshi]

i use a pump that came with a audi 80 pumps the tank out in minutes. i would once drained remove the sender will be surprised how much fuel is left and you can inspect the tank 

[PeteH]

I adapted the Lidle Pump to drain the car sump via the  dip stick fitting. Bit idle on my part, but saves having to get under the motor, for just an oil change. Still have to jack for a filter change though, but it can be reached under the valence.

Pete

[iana]

The weather has been good today so I decided it was time to drain the tank as the car won’t run on the fuel in the tank. It’s a very strange colour - best described as straw like colour, tank removed and I’ll get it cleaned at work tomorrow. Gave me an excuse to check the fuel line only to find rubber hoses held in place with zip ties. So I’ll replace with ethanol proof pipe and clips. Hopefully next weekend the car will run off the tank!