johny Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 yes as said elsewhere we're waiting on this mob to come up with a conversion for our cars. Though Ist gear ratio still pretty useless and then theres the price🙃 Triumph Gearbox upgrades | Mazda MX-5 Gearbox upgrades | Vitesse — Vitesse Global LTD (vitesse-ltd.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 On 17/02/2024 at 12:53, johny said: It was stronger and of course effectively had overdrive but again the ratios available werent great. The ratios on a 2.8 litre T9 gb are almost exactly the same as the Triumph. The four pot 1.6 litre T9 has different ratios with much shorter 1st gear so not suited unless you want black line starts! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Sooooo difficult to find though🤑 We need something more available in local breakers yards now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straightsix Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Has anybody fitted a front wheel drive lump into their Vitesse? 😆 .........I’ll get my coat! 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 MX5 Gearbox?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 See above☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted February 19 Report Share Posted February 19 Frontline T9 or Vitesse Mazda box they are both around £3500. I would ask BGH Geartech who specialise in T9s if they could help with a gearbox and then perhaps get your adaptor plate made. Still not going to be cheap but BGH will make a box to take 250bhp! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Works Spitfires Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 As one of the largest suppliers of T9 conversion bits you might assume that at least one of our fleet has one fitted, not so! I have to say hand on heart I have never broken, or worn out to the point where a few needle rollers, or the odd tip bearing are needed in any Triumph box. I used to pull the gearbox on the Chicane every 50,000 miles, and swap a few syncro rinds around, Same on our Vitesse (pictured), and that has over the years been given a fair bit of stick doing the odd track day, autosolo, etc. However the most important thing I have found is to carefully monitor oil level. The small chassis cars in particular have a very small oil capacity. Let it loose a bit at your peril. I also change gearbox (and diff) oil every time I do a engine oil, and filter change. The majority of customer gearboxes I have rebuilt over the years show neglect of the above. The remaining oil in them generally stinks like its been there since the car was manufactured 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Im really surprised because as both the mainshaft tip and layshaft have the needle rollers running on them directly I find that by the time the needle rollers themselves are worn the surfaces they run on are really shot. I have always thought this is because the needle rollers being a precision specialist component are likely to be harder than the other components. Its made worse by the fact the bearing surfaces are only case hardened (of varying quality?) and once worn through deteriorate rapidly. The layshaft can be readily replaced but the mainshaft tip is much more of a problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Needle rollers can be 'Crowded' or 'Caged'. I do not know which is in the gearbox but, crowded rollers scuff against one another at twice the rate of the surface speed of the shaft. Caged rollers do not scuff but can wear the cage. This should last longer than the life of the bearings BUT I have seen broken cages on ball and roller beariings causing all sorts of problems. Sometimes a plain well oiled bearing lasts just as long and gives an audible warning when is is worn. Low oil level and dirty oil is the major contributor to wear in these gearboxes. Some Motorcycles had grease in their boxes. (Burman, I believe). Not easy to clean that out. without major stripping. However, that is easier in a motor cycle. Maybe I should get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 We have a caged on the mainshaft tip and free rollers for the laygear and all would last much longer if they ran in proper inner and outer races as these would have a high quality through hardening. Ours run directly on quite large components that would be too brittle if through hardened and so are unfortunately only case hardened to a depth of a few thou☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 (edited) Back when I was on Factory maintenence, 50 years ago!!, some of the wearing parts of machine tools where induction hardened. This however does require a different class of steel (inherantly more costly too). Whereas Low carbon (cheaper) steels can be benficially case hardened and is (as) satisfactory in many/most uses. The issue with "our" cars is their age and the declining availability of many O/E spare parts, plus the questionable quality of those being produced. Refurbishing damaged shafting by "metal spraying" whilst one way of recovering a part, also has it`s own hazards centred around "who and to what standard". Done right it is a way of recovering expensive to re-manufacture equipment. Pete Edited February 23 by PeteH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 If possible I prefer sleeving of bearing surfaces as you then get a proper race which is through hardened and machined to very fine tolerance. Its what Ive just done on the mainshaft tip bearing of the OD gearbox Im preparing but unfortunately to do the same for its laygear is much more difficult (impossible?)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, johny said: If possible I prefer sleeving of bearing surfaces as you then get a proper race which is through hardened and machined to very fine tolerance. Its what Ive just done on the mainshaft tip bearing of the OD gearbox Im preparing but unfortunately to do the same for its laygear is much more difficult (impossible?)... I have a Spitfire box with a fully caged mainshaft tip bearing. Tip ground down very slightly and inner race pressed on, input shaft ground out, and race pressed in. instructions were in The Courier, long time ago I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 7 minutes ago, thescrapman said: I have a Spitfire box with a fully caged mainshaft tip bearing. Tip ground down very slightly and inner race pressed on, input shaft ground out, and race pressed in. instructions were in The Courier, long time ago I suspect. Any ideas for knackered laygears? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 When I had two teeth break of third gear on the cluster the one Mike Papworth supplied had been drilled and sleeved. He said that it was difficult to find someone to do a good job at a reasonable price, this was well pre COVID, doubt if things have improved. Regards Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Works Spitfires Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 12 hours ago, thescrapman said: I have a Spitfire box with a fully caged mainshaft tip bearing. Tip ground down very slightly and inner race pressed on, input shaft ground out, and race pressed in. instructions were in The Courier, long time ago I suspect. This was a common fix in the gearbox shop back in the John Kipping days. Worn 1/2" tip mainshafts were ground down to take an off the shelf Torrington sleeve (I still have a box full of them somewhere). Then a steel cage tip bearing was used to compliment it. Worn 18mm mainshaft tips were ground down to the next common size (Ital?) and used NOS Unipart needle rollers that were as cheap as chips back then. Cluster gears were bored out, and sleeved usually as a matter of course on one end at least. I think Mick Papworth was still doing this until fairly recently (learnt from his days in the JK gearbox shop). There used to be a gearbox supplier who used to drill the end of mainthafts and glue in a new tip. They didn't last long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 Im building up a collection of laygears with worn bearing surfaces but dont want to throw them. Sleeving them looks problematic as youve got to keep the end thrust faces plus the bore seems to be a custom size so anything you make and fit needs to be properly hardened☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Works Spitfires Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 10 minutes ago, johny said: Im building up a collection of laygears with worn bearing surfaces but dont want to throw them. Sleeving them looks problematic as youve got to keep the end thrust faces plus the bore seems to be a custom size so anything you make and fit needs to be properly hardened☹️ Bread and butter stuff for any old school machine shop. The sleeves used to a an off the shelf thing, but in the end our place made their own. Set up charges used to be the killer so we used to have to do a minimum of 25 gears (or it might have been 50?) to make it reasonable money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 So I guess its the bin for my little lot. Even the 3/32" needle rollers are special order from the far east and not available from normal bearing suppliers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 On 24/02/2024 at 09:43, Works Spitfires said: I think Mick Papworth was still doing this until fairly recently This was done on my rebuild, by Mike about 8 years ago, though I read the engineer who actually bored and sleeved the laygear was not doing it anymore. I assume Mike can longer offer this service?, What a shame these old school skills dying out!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Works Spitfires Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 (edited) 16 hours ago, daverclasper said: This was done on my rebuild, by Mike about 8 years ago, though I read the engineer who actually bored and sleeved the laygear was not doing it anymore. I assume Mike can longer offer this service?, What a shame these old school skills dying out!. It was Walsh's in Coventry, a large engineering company that unfortunately changed hands some years ago, and then ceased trading recently. John Kipping used them back in the 80/90's, and we continued using them until they changed hands, and things got difficult (MOQ's went up, prices went through the roof). Mick continued to use Walsh's after he left us, but came up against the same issues eventually. He probably persevered with them longer than us, but because of the volume of stuff we were doing in the trade, and retail back then it was too much of a struggle to maintain reliable supply, so we left it to others. Shame because we were (and probably still are) left sitting on the largest core stock in the trade. Edited February 26 by Works Spitfires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 Thanks for the info. What is your company, "Works"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 Dave this is your names sake David from canley classics ...keep it quiet Ha ! should be your favourite place for spares Welcome to Canley Classics : Canley Classics Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 (edited) Ah, that Dave. Certainly, Canley are my no1, to go to Edited February 26 by daverclasper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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