Colin Lindsay Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 I drove a 25 back in the early 80s (firms car) and thought I was the dog's danglies. I've had two Lagunas including an RT Sport, hated both, and had a Clio for about three months which was as long as it took me to realise I'd never make anything of it, so flogged it very quickly. I did a lot of work on it, out of necessity rather than enthusiasm, including fixing the fault where the head fills up with oil that overflows everywhere due to a cheap O-ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Twitchen Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Renault 16 in the late 70's, a most comfortable car to drive with a column gear change like I learnt to drive with (Zephyr 4) and same engine as my Lotus Europa (should have kept that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 My dad had a couple of 16s in the early '70s. Very nice cars. Upgraded to a 20, and a 4 followed by a 5 for mum. I started learning to drive on the 5 - one of the early ones with the umbrella handle gearstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 I still like the 4, it's a great shape; the 5 was a bit more modern and I remember having the whatevers scared out of me in a rally Gordini in the late 1970s. A cousin had the 5 'Campus' and I remember it had no temperature gauge, only a warning light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark powell Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 Apart from my current Renault Master, I've only owned one Renault, a 12. Bought from a house clearance for next to nothing, drove it until it died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor L Posted July 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 I've seen a few 5 GT Turbos at a few local meets this year. I believe most of the older models like the 16 and 25s are becoming quite rare probably due to rust. A couple of years a go we had a 25 automatic come into work and was a rot box with fist sized holes in the inner sills. Shame really as it looked like a nice car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor L Posted July 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2019 Well this happened on Wednesday, yes that's right the chassis is finally back at mine and as soon as it was delivered it was straight into the garage ready for disassembly. Before I knew it the front end was stripped (steering rack removed after the picture was taken) I decided to then compare old strut to new, Quite a difference and on closer inspection you can still see the original blue paint on the old damper, Then I moved onto the rear which only took a few hours to disassemble, I worked it out that it only took 9 hours to take a part and surprisingly everything came undone relatively easy with little fuss and only 5 nuts needed to be cut off not bad considering its sat for 35 years! Ive pretty much got all the parts in stock ready for the rebuilt with improvements such as trunnionless conversion, poly bushes all round, inch lowering block for back and inch lowered springs for the front. I'm trying to build the car so I can blast it around the B roads in the day and then be able to take it to a local gathering on the evening basically a mix between a drivers car and a show car in 1 package and hopefully I'll achieve this with set up I'm going for. 1 question I do have is should I have the chassis shot blasted or do I attack it with the wire brush on the angle grinder? Both have there pros and cons would id like to hear what other people have to say before I make a final decision. Thanks for reading, Conor 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 Conor, When I first got my GT6 in 1978 I found the rear spring was broken, the previous owner had been towing a boat far too heavy for the car. Once I replaced the spring the car looked like a prototype TR7 so I replaced the front springs, which although standard had wound up 2" shorter due to the bouncing boat on the back. 35 years later, fed up with the MOT advisory "rusty road springs" I replaced them again and found old and new were exactly the same length. So I could have cleaned them up and repainted or had them sand blasted. Which is the question you're asking about your chassis, it comes down to time or money. Painstakingly repair it yourself or pay someone else to do it. Or, buy a new one! Unfortunately no longer an option with a chassis these days, although Rimmers did used to stock them. Doug 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark powell Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 I had both my chassis (Herald and Midge) blasted and two pack epoxy primed. The Midge chassis was further coated and finished in two pack epoxy black at just under £300. The cost was worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 If you have the time, expertise and facilities do it yourself. Then you know not only what has been done, but how its been done and how best to repair in the future. From my experience unless you have very close knowledge of a garage or contractor, trust nobody (search for reaf leaf spring thread). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 16 hours ago, Conor L said: 1 question I do have is should I have the chassis shot blasted or do I attack it with the wire brush on the angle grinder? Both have there pros and cons would id like to hear what other people have to say before I make a final decision. Shotblasting will get into the very small nooks and crannies that the wire brush won't; it will also uncover any seriously thin metal by blowing straight through it, so you'll know where the weak parts are. Wire brushing is good enough provided you don't polish the metal too shiny for paint to adhere, but in my own experience won't leave as good a finish. It's all down to your personal taste and the kind of finish you want; perhaps I was just too lazy to wirebrush the entire thing? With reference to your springs - I wirebrushed my old Herald ones but fitted new shocks; with the top plates shotblasted and painted they came up looking very well and I got a few more years out of those. Toyota blue, I think that was - it was in a bargain clearance box...but you can see how they started off - example on the left 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor L Posted July 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 12 hours ago, dougbgt6 said: Conor, When I first got my GT6 in 1978 I found the rear spring was broken, the previous owner had been towing a boat far too heavy for the car. Once I replaced the spring the car looked like a prototype TR7 so I replaced the front springs, which although standard had wound up 2" shorter due to the bouncing boat on the back. 35 years later, fed up with the MOT advisory "rusty road springs" I replaced them again and found old and new were exactly the same length. So I could have cleaned them up and repainted or had them sand blasted. Which is the question you're asking about your chassis, it comes down to time or money. Painstakingly repair it yourself or pay someone else to do it. Or, buy a new one! Unfortunately no longer an option with a chassis these days, although Rimmers did used to stock them. Doug Thanks for the feedback Doug can't really understand why the previous owner towed a boat with a GT6? The mind does wonder. When I removed the rear spring from mine it was completely shot, 2 broken leaves and loads play between them which explain why the car was very low at the back, I already have a new 1 in stock when I took advantage of the rimmers spring sale and the difference is like night and day. The chassis has had a bit of welding with the outriggers and the front cross member needed repair too which has been done thankfully the rest is only surface rust. 12 hours ago, mark powell said: I had both my chassis (Herald and Midge) blasted and two pack epoxy primed. The Midge chassis was further coated and finished in two pack epoxy black at just under £300. The cost was worth it. Did the company that blasted it paint it with epoxy? Not a bad price if so and will be worth thinking about. 11 hours ago, Badwolf said: If you have the time, expertise and facilities do it yourself. Then you know not only what has been done, but how its been done and how best to repair in the future. From my experience unless you have very close knowledge of a garage or contractor, trust nobody (search for reaf leaf spring thread). Unfortunately I haven't got the expertise or facilities to blast it however just down the main road from me is a company that some people in my area including my uncle and the restorer highly recommend which is handy. I don't normally trust people with my belongings not even a pen in some cases and they never used to get returned in school and working in the trade we always used to get in cars that had just had an MOT but they were nails kind of thing. 5 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: Shotblasting will get into the very small nooks and crannies that the wire brush won't; it will also uncover any seriously thin metal by blowing straight through it, so you'll know where the weak parts are. Wire brushing is good enough provided you don't polish the metal too shiny for paint to adhere, but in my own experience won't leave as good a finish. It's all down to your personal taste and the kind of finish you want; perhaps I was just too lazy to wirebrush the entire thing? With reference to your springs - I wirebrushed my old Herald ones but fitted new shocks; with the top plates shotblasted and painted they came up looking very well and I got a few more years out of those. Toyota blue, I think that was - it was in a bargain clearance box...but you can see how they started off - example on the left I'm intending on going for a no expense spared restoration hence why I asked about shot blasting as it can get into places a wire brush can't however with being made redundant 3 weeks ago and with finding a job proving to be quite difficult I thought about the wire brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark powell Posted July 29, 2019 Report Share Posted July 29, 2019 'Did the company that blasted it paint it with epoxy? Not a bad price if so and will be worth thinking about.' Yes. All in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor L Posted September 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 Wow over a month without an update, time sure flies when you're having fun. Not much has happened on the Spitfire since the last update. However now I've finally got myself back on my feet with the help of a new job/career. After much thought about whether to get the chassis blasted or to wire brush it I've opted for the latter, main reason being all of the shot blasting companies in my town all wanted nearly £300 just to blast the thing which is quite simply £300 I dont currently have. So over the past couple of weekends I've been out wire brushing up the chassis and I'm quite pleased with the results. I've also gave it a couple of coats of Hydrate 80 to convert any remaining rust and hopefully prevent flash rusting. The question I have is, what should I use to paint it? Obviously I want something that can be easily applied, durable with long lasting protection and with so many different products out on the market some advice and recommendations is welcomed. Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 Avoid Hammerite! It will chip far too easily. Do you want it body colour, or maybe a neutral colour such as black? The top coat is the icing on the cake, it's the preparation and the undercoats that will make it last. A good quality primer, maybe over etch primer, and stonechip on any of the leading edges should leave it ready for colouring. If you can get a good anti-rust liquid - I use Jenolite or if your Hydrate 80 does the same job - get it inside the main rails through any of the holes for brake or fuel pipes etc and turn the chassis so that it runs over as many of the internal surfaces as you can get it over. That will initially kill the rust, then after painting fill it with Waxoyl or Dinitrol to keep the moisture off the metal. It'll last for years then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor L Posted September 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 29 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: Avoid Hammerite! It will chip far too easily. Do you want it body colour, or maybe a neutral colour such as black? The top coat is the icing on the cake, it's the preparation and the undercoats that will make it last. A good quality primer, maybe over etch primer, and stonechip on any of the leading edges should leave it ready for colouring. If you can get a good anti-rust liquid - I use Jenolite or if your Hydrate 80 does the same job - get it inside the main rails through any of the holes for brake or fuel pipes etc and turn the chassis so that it runs over as many of the internal surfaces as you can get it over. That will initially kill the rust, then after painting fill it with Waxoyl or Dinitrol to keep the moisture off the metal. It'll last for years then. Dont worry Hammerite will be going no where near this car I'd have to think twice about using it on the garden bench. My thought is that as the underside of the tub is going to be body colour (red) I was thinking of painting the chassis black to have a nice contrast between body and chassis. Still torn between a gloss or satin finish though. I was thinking of building up the layers of paint before a finish coat to maximize protection for years to come. Never thought about putting the converter inside of the chassis so that is definitely on the to do list along with spraying a load of Dinitrol in there. I was also going to stay away from POR - 15 as I've heard mixed results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 38 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: Avoid Hammerite! Unfortunate as yellow Hammerite is, to all intents and purposes, Mimosa. If you like Mimosa, that is. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor L Posted October 27, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2019 Unfortunately progress has been a bit slow over the past month. Well actually that's a lie has things have been done just not enough to document. At the end of September with my 1st proper wage for a few months, a order was placed for the remaining parts to rebuilt the chassis along with the most important part, Paint. I do apologise at this is stage as I've been a naughty boy and haven't really taken any pictures of progress. So the angle grinder came out and 2 weekends were spent wire brushing the chassis to remove and old paint and all of the surface rust, soon to be followed by a good coat of Hydrate 80 to hopefully keep the rust at bay for many years to come. I then applied a coat of some zinc rich primer then the chassis received 5 good thick coats of satin black chassis paint. Once this was completed I clean up and painted all of the components in order to rebuild the front of the chassis. All of the suspension arms were polybushed too which will hopefully sharpen up the handling and improve road feel. When all of this was completed we ended up with this, Overall im quite happy with the result. Whilst everything was apart I took the opportunity to upgrade to Freelander wheel studs and a trunnion conversion kit was fitted, Since these picture I have built up the other side to the same stage. Now with everything going back together nicely I knew in the back of my mind that something would go wrong and I was right. When I fitted the recon Girling Type 14 caliper we hit an issue as can been seen in the picture above there is no gap between the caliper and the disc and as a result has completely jammed the disc solid in place. Only thing I can thing of is that the disc is too big and is fouling the caliper, are there any other causes for this? So now with the front pretty much complete that just leaves me with the rear which all well and good and progress on that will soon commence when I find the correct hub puller at a reasonable price. Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 I had that on a Herald, and I think the problem was that the hub was not properly tightened over the oil seal. The felt seal hadn't compressed enough so the hub seemed tight, but I removed it all, greased the hub seal, replaced the assembly and tightened fully this time, and the brake disc was now central to the caliper and rotated freely. If everything is mating, or spaced, correctly it should all line up. One other point in case that isn't your problem - do the calipers require any kind of spacer? Maybe a thin washer will shim them out sufficiently to avoid friction (assuming it shims them in the right direction and doesn't affect any of the other geometry.) That's all looking good and making me wish I could get on with some restoration or other in the garage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor L Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: I had that on a Herald, and I think the problem was that the hub was not properly tightened over the oil seal. The felt seal hadn't compressed enough so the hub seemed tight, but I removed it all, greased the hub seal, replaced the assembly and tightened fully this time, and the brake disc was now central to the caliper and rotated freely. If everything is mating, or spaced, correctly it should all line up. One other point in case that isn't your problem - do the calipers require any kind of spacer? Maybe a thin washer will shim them out sufficiently to avoid friction (assuming it shims them in the right direction and doesn't affect any of the other geometry.) That's all looking good and making me wish I could get on with some restoration or other in the garage! Thanks Colin. I can see an even gap either side of the disc so I'm pretty confident that it's all lined up. I think the issue lies in the picture below as there appears to be no gap at all between the edge of the disc and the caliper. Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 So it's hitting the edge of the disc, and not the side? Got ya now. Where did you buy your discs? They may be a slight bit too big. Can you try another set for size, or have those skimmed slightly? I'm assuming the caliper is correct but I'm wondering if there would be any problem with grinding this edge down slightly if all else is right, and that might be the easiest option unless you want to try another caliper too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor L Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: So it's hitting the edge of the disc, and not the side? Got ya now. Where did you buy your discs? They may be a slight bit too big. Can you try another set for size, or have those skimmed slightly? I'm assuming the caliper is correct but then again there's no problem with grinding this edge down slightly if all else is right, and that might be the easiest option unless you want to try another caliper too... I've just taken a further look and also fitted the other side for good measure and to my surprise everything fits fine My conclusion is that I think the offside caliper is a Girling type 12 instead of the correct type 14. is that a possible cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 If the calipers are visually the same, they are the same type. (type 12 have 2 bolts holding the 2 halves together, type 14 4 bolts) If they are new calipers, I suspect they are just made wrong...or the discs are. Measurements or swapping about required I am afraid. EDIT I see you have the excellent CC trunnionless uprights (I do too!) and I wonder if it is juts possible they have been machined a fraction out for the caliper mount. Unlikely, but something else to check? After all it can only be caliper, disc or what they are bolted to. And a grinder may be the answer...or a word with teh suoolier once you have found the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor L Posted October 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just had a look both calipers are Type 14 and both are refurbished girling items. on closer inspection the nearside caliper is slightly different to the offside. Another thing to note is the nearside caliper (the 1 that fits) says its a Mk3 and the offside says Mk2. Could this difference be the issue? I've fitted the nearside caliper onto the offside and there are no clearance issues which to me confirms there is defiantly an issue with the caliper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 There's a very definite difference in size between Type 12 and 14, but I've no idea of the difference between type 14 Mk11 and Mk111 - I'd guess that you're spot on in that there is definitely a difference, so get another of whichever side fits! I hope it's not anything else, such as the uprights, but unfortunately you'll only find out when the replacement caliper arrives. Fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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