Gadgetman Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 As my type 12 vitesse 6 vertical link has snapped I’m replacing both , so the question comes do I replace them with later style type 14 brake vertical links and if so what else do I need? my list so far: heat shields callipers pads disks wheel bearings adaptor plate bolts do I need to upgrade the rear cylinders at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 I've done it before as part of a rebuild, upgrading Heralds from 12s to 14s, and all I needed in reality was the caliper and pads. Never touched the rears at all. I know from a rather hazy memory that the Vitesse has different vertical links and caliper attachments, but if you replace the vertical links with Spitfire versions (Herald ones will also do, not sure if they're any different as regards strength but don't think so) you'll find the calipers bolt straight on without adaptors. You don't need to change the wheel bearings unless that's a job you want to do at the time, but you may need slight alterations to the brake pipes and hoses as if they're anything like my early GT6 there are some small differences in position and length. Make sure your Vitesse hubs will clear the calipers; some are chamfered and some aren't, so check that the outer edge has been machined back to clear the gap; look closely and you'll see a machined edge all round the circumference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 The later type 12 cars used exactly the same upright as the type 14s (like my mk2 spitfire) early ones had an adaptor plate. So if you replace the uprights with later spitfire/herald the type 14s will fit. Why not go the whole way and use later vitesse links etc and type 16 callipers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 I think all Vitesses including 1600 used the bigger stub axle so I suspect that if you get a type 14 vertical link with integral calliper mount intended for Heralds an Spitfire, your stub axle won't fit. If buying all new parts anyway then you'd do much better to upgrade to 2L spec with bigger discs and type 16 callipers which are a significant improvement. Nick 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Agree wholeheartedly with Nick....the type 14 is a very marginal improvement, only real benefit is the pads and callipers are easier to find. If you existing setup has the separate calliper brackets, they have real value as they can be used on the bigger 6 cylinder uprights to fit 4 pot callipers with Ford spacing (eg princess 4 pots, or the alloy version of the same) Pete Lewis will hopefully be along, he converted his Vitesse 6 to type 16 callipers, a very good thing to do. And costwise will make little difference over your proposed "buying list" and if doing all that, check the rear wheel cylinders, they will want to be the same bore as the later vitesse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 As Nick has stated the later Herald/Spit vertical link is not a direct swop for the Vitesse type. Re fitting the 2 Litre 16P calipers, though the uprights are the same on the Vitesse 6 and 2 Litre the caliper mounting plates are different due to the larger 16P calipers mounting hole spacing. The size of the rear brake shoes on all Vitesse models are the same. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Yes I fitted type 16s to my Vit6 you do need as dave says just the matching caliper mount plate from any 2 ltr, not easily available Then you stand a good chance of stopping need the 2 ltr disc add some mintex 1144 pads and things change dramatically Type 16s use a 0.7 master cyl but a 5/8" will add some travel but lighten the pedal load Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetman Posted September 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Pete i managed to get these on flea bay for £2.25 earlier today! says they are GT6 so are they type 14 or 16? did you replace your rear cylinders to the larger size as well to maintain the balance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetman Posted September 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Oh and what’s the difference between type 16 and 16PB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 GT6 are all type 16 (of various guises) Differences are seals etc. The late metric ones are handy as they use the same pad as capri etc so common and available in a variety of types (like the 1144 as mentioned by Pete) The difference is metric threads on the connections, and the pad pins are smaller diameter. However, the pads can have the pin holes drilled out to fit the imperial type 16's. Your old calliperbrackets are worth £70-100 depending on how long you wait/how desperate somebody is.....new alloy ones were £125 last time I looked, probably more now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetman Posted September 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Thanks Clive. Is the attachment bolt pitch the same on the later metric ones? Also what do you do about pipes, can you get metric to imperial adaptor fittings? seems like a result in the brackets... I need steering arms now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted September 23, 2018 Report Share Posted September 23, 2018 Ah, the metrics have a slightly larger bolt hole So would need to use the attachment bolts from a very late GT6 or indeed TR6. As they were fitted to GT6's, the solid brake pipe is easily available with metric and imperial ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 10 hours ago, Gadgetman said: Pete i managed to get these on flea bay for £2.25 earlier today! says they are GT6 so are they type 14 or 16? did you replace your rear cylinders to the larger size as well to maintain the balance? £2.25?????? They will arrest you for robbery! GT6 will be type 16. That is what you have, type 12 are a different shape. The original type 12 adaptors are valuable as well, possibly more so a set they can be used with the lightweight 4-pot alloy calipers that come more readily in the narrower bolt spacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 there is a sealing ring to keep road water out the back of the bearings fits as an o ring between the bracket and the stub carrier you cant get them anywhere now but a smear of sealer on the mating face where the register is to take the ring will work just as well not on the mating faces they need to be solid , no squishy sealer on them and these faces are best not painted either Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 6 hours ago, thescrapman said: GT6 will be type 16. That is what you have, type 12 are a different shape. The original type 12 adaptors are valuable as well, possibly more so a set they can be used with the lightweight 4-pot alloy calipers that come more readily in the narrower bolt spacing. Oh, I didn't know that. I got some adaptors cheap (but more than £2.25 - that really was remarkably good - or a misprint!) to convert the Atlas to disc brakes some time. Now you've got me wondering what I've got! Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetman Posted September 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 3 hours ago, rlubikey said: Oh, I didn't know that. I got some adaptors cheap (but more than £2.25 - that really was remarkably good - or a misprint!) to convert the Atlas to disc brakes some time. Now you've got me wondering what I've got! Cheers, Richard Nope no misprint... ? shipping was more than the actual cost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 You did well there..... those usually make surprisingly big money. The type 12/14 ones are the really hard to find ones though Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted September 24, 2018 Report Share Posted September 24, 2018 Crikey Gadgetman! That really was very good. I thought I was doing well with £23.01 + £7.95 delivery back in 2013. I've just checked and mine look identical to yours, so type 16 brackets. Just for reference, the type 12/14 ones, do they look more of a square profile? Cheers, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 16 hours ago, rlubikey said: Just for reference, the type 12/14 ones, do they look more of a square profile? Yes Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 On 9/23/2018 at 10:30 AM, Nick Jones said: 17 hours ago, rlubikey said: Just for reference, the type 12/14 ones, do they look more of a square profile? Cheers, Richard Yes, they're more square. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 25, 2018 Report Share Posted September 25, 2018 and the mount centres are only about 1/2 a hole out ,............. visions of frantic filing to make a 16 fit !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetman Posted September 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2018 Has anyone fitted 4 pot princess possibly Landrover calipers, they have the same bolt pitch as the type 16 brackets?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted September 26, 2018 Report Share Posted September 26, 2018 Same pitch as type 14 IIRC. Very heavy callipers and troublesome to plumb in due to having two separate circuits. Hispec do an alloy version that gets around both issues. Can't remember whether you use the Spitfire or GT6 disc with them but really no point unless it's the GT6 Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetman Posted September 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 26, 2018 Looking at these they don’t have two circuits only one single inlet pipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted September 26, 2018 Report Share Posted September 26, 2018 If you increase the caliper piston displacememt you reduce the applied load , wheres the improvement coming from If the hydraulic ratio is reduced and the pad area increased ,, wheres the gain ??? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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