Poor quality parts - a new one on me...

[Bitumen Boy]

The waterpump on my Herald started leaking a week or two back, so I ordered a new one from one of the usual suspects and it arrived one day in the week. I opened the box and had a quick look at it but had no time to do any more until today. Old pump came off without any bother, cleaned everything up a bit, went to fit the new pump. When I took it out of the box though I found the pulley rattling round loose... the shaft has broken just inside the pulley. No kidding, a 5/8" diameter steel shaft snapped off cleanly - at least it should be steel, but to my admittedly untrained eye the fracture is suggestive of cast iron. Hate to think how much damage that would have caused if it had broken on a running engine, I imagine the rad would be totaled at the very least.

 

Needless to say the supplier will be getting a call about this Monday morning, at least it's not something they can bullshit away! Pump is branded "County", I know some of their stuff isn't reckoned to be the best but this..?

[Nick Jones]

Quality......... low quality.....

Nick

[poppyman]

I would say it has been dropped and put back in the box to break like that, as above , very poor quality  

Tony. 

[Bitumen Boy]

I bet you could drop an original Stanpart pump off Beachy Head without it breaking. 

[68vitesse]

Makes you wonder about the "quality" of it's seals and bearings.

Regards

Paul

[Bitumen Boy]

Spoke to supplier this morning about this broken pump. He didn't believe me at first but emailing those pictures across soon changed his mind. New pump on the way (doubtless they're all coming from the same source, unless anyone knows differently), needless to say I will be giving it a very thorough inspection before fitting. Longer term I think I'll see about getting the original pump overhauled, I don't really trust the repro ones after seeing this.

[JohnD]

But how will you inspect it?

Cast iron or mild steel:  Here's one way: 

Usung a Dremel with a stone in it might show the difference, if you have some cast iron  to test it on (yes you have - a whole engine block!) and bit of steel (any suspension arm)

An alternative is to drill a smal hole in the test material.      Steel will produce swarf and chips of metal; cast iron a fine powder, like graphite.     You coulddo this into the end on the shaft as it shows in the pulley centre.

John

[Bitumen Boy]

Well, I was thinking of a bit of big hammer work to make sure it's not hanging on by a thread like the last one must have been before it was boxed up will be a start. Drilling a wee hole in the shaft end to assess the material is a good idea too. Realistically there's not much more I can do beyond keeping everything crossed....

[Colin Lindsay]

Pumps these days are really a service part; if you get two years out of them then replace.

I've a number of original brass-impeller pumps from early Heralds, I had two professionally reconditioned recently at a cost of £45 each with new bearings and seals and they're good for years now. I rebuilt some myself a few years back but this was a lot less hassle and definitely worth the money.

[Bitumen Boy]

Care to share who did the work for you, Colin? PM if you like. I have the brass impeller pump removed last week and one from waaaay back that I thought I'd chucked out ages ago - only found it yesterday. Everything about them shouts "quality" compared to the remanufactured items, nice brass impeller, grease nipple, even the body casting is nice and smooth unlike the new ones which are dog rough.

[Colin Lindsay]

No problem; it was EP Services of Wolverhampton, they were suggested to me by another TSSC member. When I made contact they were great to deal with, and had no hesitation in offering to recondition two old pumps I had in the garage, even though one of them had been stripped down by me for a renovation that had been shelved. I sent all the parts over in a plastic tub. The pumps came back looking like new so I'm well impressed. The original pumps were so well made, with replaceable bearings and seals and the lovely brass parts, that they're worth keeping for a few more years. 

http://www.ep-services.co.uk/

[Guest]

Hello Colin,

Glad it worked out.

Regards.

Richard.

[Bitumen Boy]

Well, I've given the new pump a few smart taps and nothing's broken so will try fitting when i get time. Didn't get far drilling the shaft end, it's so hard that I couldn't centre punch it  - instantly flattened the point of the punch when I tried - and with only a handheld drill to work with I'm not going to get far without a punch mark for a start.

 

Current plan, then, is to fit new pump to get mobile again, then get old pumps rebuilt for the next time, which I suspect won't be too long coming.

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, classiclife said:

Hello Colin,

Glad it worked out.

Regards.

Richard.

They did!! Thanks for steering me towards them; they're certainly worth supporting.

[Guest]

And here is a good reason for using EP Services with a lifetime guarantee and at a price that is not ridiculous as per this example: 

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-VITESSE-1962-1967-NEW-WATER-PUMP-AND-GASKET-NJ693/283218670309?hash=item41f125f2e5:g:acYAAOSw2s1UuPqR:rk:34:pf:0

Really !!!! and £12.60 for the postage …………………. get real.

This seller has loads of stuff way above acceptable prices with postage to add; strangely not one item identified with an actual manufacturer, just Classic Spares. I'm amazed that people just buy blindly at such prices when there are other decent outlets.

Maybe it's just me.

Regards.

Richard.

[Peter Truman]

On your original Triumph brass impellor pumps when dismantled have you found the shaft corroded & possibly cavitated where it goes into the impellor before it goes into the seal.

Like you I have rebuilt several original pumps, but on a couple I had to replace the shaft, using a SS bar suitably machined for woodruff keys and circlips.

I was fortunate on one rebuild to buy an Australian NOS Repco Triumph Rebuild kit, purchased from the USA on Fleabay, how's that for coals to Newcastle! The kit had everything, seals, circlips woodruff key, bearings and spacers.

The last rebuild I've still to finish the impellor seal was a general aftermarket part from the local bearing supplier, which needed a little trim (Dremmel) on the rear inside of the impellor to seat snugley, it came with a fixed non rotating running seal face (seat) too which I might machine into the pump body, not really necessary, but what the heck, it's all fun. Interestingly the shaft on this pump showed only minor signs of corrosion/cavitation., so the shaft wasn't replaced.

A local Triumph service provider here in Melbourne was providing a rebuilt pump with a Nissan Impellor, which has a proper  radiating impellor design, not the crude Triumph right angle upright fins. There is a thought to reduce cavitation in the pump the Triumph pump impellor fins should be cut vertically where it joins the pump impellor body, so there's a gap,

Similarly there's a chap in the USA does something similar, impellor replacement, the cost of both of these modified units were about $200,

You could go Davies Craig Electric Water Pump, easily done in the bottom radiator hose, complete with electronic controller. Can provide photos of one fitted to a Saloon if reqd.

Regards

Peter Truman

 

[johny]

Ive been quite happy with the cheapy pumps available as the bearings have never failed (and certainly never the shaft) so its always been the seals that start to leak. This is usually after leaving the engine unturned for an extended period so I suspect they stick to the impellor and then are damaged on first start up. Perhaps this is where the original bronze impellors would be better....

[Bitumen Boy]

On 19/10/2018 at 20:57, classiclife said:

And here is a good reason for using EP Services with a lifetime guarantee and at a price that is not ridiculous as per this example: 

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-VITESSE-1962-1967-NEW-WATER-PUMP-AND-GASKET-NJ693/283218670309?hash=item41f125f2e5:g:acYAAOSw2s1UuPqR:rk:34:pf:0

Really !!!! and £12.60 for the postage …………………. get real.

This seller has loads of stuff way above acceptable prices with postage to add; strangely not one item identified with an actual manufacturer, just Classic Spares. I'm amazed that people just buy blindly at such prices when there are other decent outlets.

Maybe it's just me.

Regards.

Richard.

There's a lot of chancers like that on fleabay, I reckon they're looking for people that are either drunk or just plain daft. For another example, try searching for pretty much any rare-ish out of print book, you can guarantee someone is selling a copy for somewhere north of £150 on a buy it now, just waiting for the drunk or desperate buyer.

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Bitumen Boy said:

There's a lot of chancers like that on fleabay, I reckon they're looking for people that are either drunk or just plain daft. For another example, try searching for pretty much any rare-ish out of print book, you can guarantee someone is selling a copy for somewhere north of £150 on a buy it now, just waiting for the drunk or desperate buyer.

And then when a copy comes up for £5, you wonder what the catch is...

£12.60 postage isn't bad; try this lot for brake discs..!

 

 

[Guest]

That must include them fitting the discs !! ?

[Badwolf]

I saw a book I was looking for a book on Amazon last year. They had it listed for about £80.00. When I challenged the supplier about the price, they told me that the price reflected the market value and difficulty in obtaining. I told them to stuff it and went and bought it brand new, direct from the publisher for £9.99!!

[Colin Lindsay]

I collect books by two authors, Keith Roberts and Ronald Welch. It always makes me laugh when someone puts one for sale at hundreds of pounds, then next week one comes up on eBay for £4.99... 

Last book I bought was 'How to Restore the Triumph TR7' by Roger Williams, and I complained that it cost me £24 new. 

If only I'd waited.. I could have bought it used for three times that!

 

[thescrapman]

The reason for the stupidly high prices on things like brake discs is the way the sellers manage costs.

it costs less to keep a listing running on EBay continuously if it is just a Buy it Now than cancel and re-list..

if the seller does not have the item in stock he changes the price to a stupid figure, and puts it back to a sensible price when it is available. The high price covers effort to buy elsewhere and ship onward if someone does actually buy it.

a look at the listing changes shows what seller is doing.