Brian Sculpher Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Hi all, Since my recent purchase of a TR6 I’ve experience a handbrake issue despite checking/cleaning/adjusting the rear brakes with very little lining wear. When engaging the handbrake 4 notches = maximum pressure they barley hold the car stationary. Foot brake braking appears perfectly fine. Has anyone out there had a similar problem - if so what is the cure? Any help would be appreciated. Best regard BRIAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 I've never owned a TR6 but in general there are two things that make for poor handbrake performance. One is badly adjusted drums, which also causes a bit of excess pedal travel or sponginess. The other is badly adjusted cable. On the small chassis cars, there's an intermediate lever between the front handbrake cable and the rear. Having that pointing forward instead of slightly back will cause the handbrake not to work. I don't know whether the TR6 also has that. Or generally slack cables will mean you can run out of handle travel before the brakes are fully on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark powell Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 There hasn't been an oil leak on to the shoes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Sculpher Posted July 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Hi Dan, Appreciate your comments although I believe the drum brakes have been adjusted correctly. Maybe other members have had a similar issue with your idea of the intermediate cable union behind the handbrake which should point forward, can this be confirmed by other members or are there any other scenarios. With thanks Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark powell Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Sorry, should have checked original post... cleaned and adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Sculpher Posted July 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 For additional info there hasn’t appeared to been a leak in this area. I also washed the area out with a brake cleaner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 If the TR6 brakes are anything like the small chassis Triumph brakes, then the Slave Cylinder must be free to slip from side to side, with NO wear groove from the handbrake lever underneath it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Hi Brian, when you adjusted the brakes did you disconnect the handbrake cables on both sides? If not that is your problem. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 yes the compensator is a short equalising splitter just rear of the handbrake lever , no swinging lever like the small chassis cars it is important the shoe manual adjuster is wound fully up to lock hard the drum with the cable disconnected or very slack any tension in the twin cables will hold the shoes open and you get a false feel of fully adjusted . old back plates end up with a groove worn in by the handbrake pivot lever this arrests the hydraulic cylinder form freely sliding so check backplate for wear grooves under the cylinder........... slacken 2 cables ,.......... really lock up adjusters.............. reconnect cables to 'Just fit' and.......... de adjust the manual adjuster to free the wheel you should have about 4 clicks on the handbrake , Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Sculpher Posted July 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Thanks Guys, I will attend your recommendations in the next few days. Just one thing Pete am I right in thinking the backplate grooves you refer under the cylinder are in other words the lining backplate which located into the wheel cylinder although they did appear quite freshly replaced. Once again thank you all for your assistance - will let you all know how I get on. thank you Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 under the wheel cylinder between the backplate and the cyl. the handbrake cable lever is located on two spigots that the lever pivots on it simply rests against backplate and can end up with a good dimple worn into the plate , this then means for the cylinder to slide in the backplate the spigots on the lever have to ride out of the worn dimple , if worn a dash of weld and grind flush renovates quite well not easy to put into words ( there is a post on here with pictures of the problem Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 I thought the dimples, though they may cause the cylinder to not slide (or grab) for foot braking, would not affect the handbrake, as the lever pivot pin stays in the same position and moves the shoe?. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 For both shoes to move, the slave cylinder need to slide slightly. The wear groove in the backplate stops it sliding and reduces the handbrake efficiency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 46 minutes ago, KevinR said: For both shoes to move, the slave cylinder need to slide slightly. The wear groove in the backplate stops it sliding and reduces the handbrake efficiency Hi Brian, as above the slave MUST move 'freely'. The edge of the backplate that the HB lever pivots on MUST be well defined as a sharp square edge (as per new). As it wears it introduces friction and can also bind. If it is rounded then weld it up and file back to shape. On the 4A the cabin lever cable pivot hole can be moved closer tot he lever pivot. It sometimes happens that a 4A lever finds its way onto a TR6 (promotion). Check where the pivot is. Have you considered extending the backplate HB lever. Look on Ebay. Not expensive and add apprx 25% extra leverage to the cabin hand brake. There are numerous posts on the TRR forum but my quick look failed to find one. When I do I'll post a link. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Sculpher Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 Hi Guys, Thanks for all the posts and suggestions, currently I have undertaken the following with little success:- >Release the handbrake cable to the brake pivot arm >Checked the arm free movement with the drum off. >adjusted the linings tight to the drums prior to checking & adjusting the length of the cable followed by Re-adjusting the linings to the drums, then refitting the forks with split pin without any cable tension, handbrake continually in off position. The result being very little improvement although several more notches achieved on handbrake action. I’ve also considered wether the linings are correct or not, current literature indicates they are correct. I believe there are other posts avenues I can adopt, however a little unsure of the action I would need to take. With the drum removed the action of the lever arm activation on the lining appears good. Any plain suggestions would be appreciated for my limited understanding of an additional modification. With thanks Brian (Plymouth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Sculpher Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 Additional my previous post - when the handbrake is activated it appears to lock off the upper part of one shoe is this correct? Brian ( (Plymouth) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 Hi Brian, did you have to release cable adjustment to reconnect the cable after adjusting the foot brake? If so you might find the shoes will have to "bed" in again as they will have been wearing wrongly. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 is the trailing shoe fitted the right way up ??? is it reversable , that would give the wrong crown contact Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 The trailing shoe should push backwards, and when it contacts the drum it will then ‘react’ against the slave cylinder via the handbrake lever arm and cause the slave cylinder to slide forwards so that the leading shore also contacts the drum. As pointed out earlier, any Vertical wear grooves In the back plate under the slave cylinder will cause the handbrake lever pivot arms to snag in the wear grooves and prevent the cylinder from sliding forwards and hence loosing most of the efficiency of the handbrake. The backplate under the slave cylinder MUST be free from vertical wear marks and the cylinder must be free to slide forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Sculpher Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 Tony / Pete / Kevin, Following your latest posts:- Re Tony’s post - yes cable was released and refitted following adjustment of brakes shoes, possible bed in problem however current handbrake hold is poor. Re Pete’s post - I’ve checked if the shoes could be fitted the wrong way round it appears this is impossible due to the handbrake slot in the shoe = one pair with cut out and one pair without. The top of the shoe adjacent to the handbrake arm slot is the area of the brake lining material which is slightly shorter than the shoe length. Re Kevin’s post - As I’m questioning my own sanity, your first section of your post indicates as I understand:- The lower section of the brake drum is merely an adjustment cam and the higher level is the cylinder providing normal breaking on both shoes, contacts at the top first. My understanding being when activating the handbrake the lever not only activates one primary shoe against the drum and providing the cylinder as lateral movement further contact is made at the adjacent side, which also has a greater shoe hand brake lining coverage. Firstly am I correct and providing the wheel cylinder has free lateral movement you achieve upper contact with both shoes. Perhaps you could confirm. Thank you Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Brian Sculpher said: Re Kevin’s post - As I’m questioning my own sanity, your first section of your post indicates as I understand:- The lower section of the brake drum is merely an adjustment cam and the higher level is the cylinder providing normal breaking on both shoes, contacts at the top first. My understanding being when activating the handbrake the lever not only activates one primary shoe against the drum and providing the cylinder as lateral movement further contact is made at the adjacent side, which also has a greater shoe hand brake lining coverage. Firstly am I correct and providing the wheel cylinder has free lateral movement you achieve upper contact with both shoes. Perhaps you could confirm. Yes, the purpose of the slave cylinder sliding against the back plate is to cause upper contact with both shoes. For rotation that would cause forward movement of the vehicle, the forward shoe, being the leading shoe, does most of the work. Not having the cylinder slide properly looses 75% of the efficiency of the handbrake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Sculpher Posted July 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 Thanks Kevin, that makes perfect sense to me now as I’ve never experienced this issue before. I agree I must have lost at least 75% of brake efficiency. Once again thank you and all others who have assisted in trying to resolve my issue. I’ll let you know how I get on. Best regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted July 29, 2020 Report Share Posted July 29, 2020 Have you asked your local friendly MOT garage to put your car on the brake tester? TR6 hand brakes are not great, couple of people I know have swapped the self-adjusting ones for a set of Mk1 2000 rear brakes. fixed pistons and manual adjusters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted July 29, 2020 Report Share Posted July 29, 2020 Hi Brian, these are typical hand brake backplate lever extenders here when you get your brakes working do fit these. Not quite handbrake turns but not far off. I made my own before these were available and still have them fitted. I have nothing to do with the seller. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 29, 2020 Report Share Posted July 29, 2020 yes but all needs to be ok before you add extra leverage as to complement the idea i fitted Stag auto expanders to my 2000 as the HB lever is 15mm longer , made a superb improvement didnt think TR6s had auto adjust , all the books show manual ???? are they on some ??? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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