poppyman Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 For many years moderns have rarely used a spigot bush or shaft at all. I have always thought "is it in fact needed?" Maybe with Colin's experience its not really needed, i don't know. I have fitted them without before when the spigot brg has failed and chewed up the crank and the box and everything worked as normal and customers happy not to spend money on new engine and gearbox. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Thanks all for your detailed response! I would of course prefer to find a solution that do not require any cutting in neither input shafts nor chassie. Shortening the input shaft is irreversible, so I have to go through all my options (condition and supply of parts) again and make a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 3 hours ago, poppyman said: I have fitted them without before when the spigot brg has failed and chewed up the crank and the box Has this been on Triumphs?, only, not a failure I've heard of before. Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Just now, daverclasper said: Has this been on Triumphs?, only, not a failure I've heard of before. Cheers, Dave Hi Dave, not on a Triumph it was mainly Fords it happened on and usually the ones with the needle rollers, although have had the bronze ones go as well. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Will it work with the flywheel from a long back crank engine (Mk1 2000 saloon?) I think trying to use the flywheel from a short back crank is putting the flywheel too far back. can you get a photo of your Vitesse flywheels mounted to the engine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, thescrapman said: Will it work with the flywheel from a long back crank engine (Mk1 2000 saloon?) I think trying to use the flywheel from a short back crank is putting the flywheel too far back. can you get a photo of your Vitesse flywheels mounted to the engine? I have 3 flywheels to play with: One from the original HC engine (3/8 bolts to crank if I remember, probably needs to be drilled) and one flywheel from a Vitesse Mk II (7/16 bolts) the one I tried to use. I also have a flywheel from a 1974 2,5 PI (MG-prefix). Very heavy indeed... Actually I have a fourth flywheel sitting in a Saloon Mk II engine (still in engine). The MB engine that I try to combine with the HC gerabox did not come with a flywheel. I will take some pictures tomorrow with what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Unfortunately looking at the diagram any flywheel would have to be very thin where it bolts onto the crank so as not touch the input shaft splines and I just cant see that being possible☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 I've managed to find two (I hope!!) relevant photos - this is a MK2 Vitesse block with the flywheel, it may illustrate the setup in relation to the distance off the block, and the other is a clutch centralising tool made from an old GT6 input shaft which shows how far along the splines the clutch goes. Might be of some help! Just to clear up confusion in one of my earlier posts I did use a spigot bush on my GT6 reassembly but it only fitted once the shaft was trimmed down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted November 29, 2020 Report Share Posted November 29, 2020 Interestingly on the Triumph Experience website in the Spitfire & GT6 Forum there is a query re difference why the difference in weight between the GT6 and TR6 flywheels (18 vs 27lbs) with pics of the GT flywheel maybe of interest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 the 2000 saloon range have the same ground anchor its just like 1/2" thicker guess it aids smoothness/damping like the engine is not heavy enough in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 Yes and then their gearbox looks to have a longer bell housing/shorter input shaft to accomodate the clutch being further away from the mounting plate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, johny said: Yes and then their gearbox looks to have a longer bell housing/shorter input shaft to accommodate the clutch being further away from the mounting plate.... Not to mention different clutch release angles etc to account for all that. Discovered when I used a saloon gearbox in my Vitesse, and never did fully solve (but I think there is a fix, or at least something better than the vitesse carrier on the saloon mechanism) Using a saloon flywheel with a vitesse box would do the opposite, and need the mechanism made closer to the box, somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 Have you tried removing bellhousing to get a look at which component, components, foul when gearbox is offered up?. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 or remove the clutch , refit the box , then you can see the shaft thro the throwout port seems pretty clear the spigot may not have the depth needed and or the spline will be hard against the flywheel then its butcher time pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 13 hours ago, Peter Truman said: Interestingly on the Triumph Experience website in the Spitfire & GT6 Forum there is a query re difference why the difference in weight between the GT6 and TR6 flywheels (18 vs 27lbs) with pics of the GT flywheel maybe of interest GT6 wheel on top, thicker saloon wheel below. Quite a difference in weight!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 5 hours ago, 68vitesse said: Have you tried removing bellhousing to get a look at which component, components, foul when gearbox is offered up? No, but I think it is the splines that fouls the clutch, and I'm not sure that shortening the input shaft will solve all my problems. There are so many other uncertain variables also like starter motor, clutch position etc so for the moment I will focus on my 2000 Mk II Saloon engine which I bought together with its gearbox. I know for sure that gearbox will fit! Unfortunately that engine is seized and will need a lot more work than the MB engine I was hoping to use. Great support on this forum, thanks a lot everyone! Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 i doubt its the disc as i said try a fit without the clutch ...what do you get ...i expect the same gap with all the mix and match ideas what stops the mk2 gearbox fitting to the mk1 engine ??? other out the box why not swap the crank if compatible journals so you get a short back crank in your mk1 engine ??? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted November 30, 2020 Report Share Posted November 30, 2020 You need a flywheel from an early Mk1 2000 engine, all 4 that you have are for short back cranks, you need the one for the long back crank. there should be someone in the UK that can supply one, suspect postage may be prohibitive though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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