Kevin Osborn Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 Hi all, Does anyone recognise the fuel pump in the photo? It’s been on my my Mk2 Spit ever since I bought it over 20 years ago but I only realised it was non standard when I came to dismantle it to clean it recently. I’m wondering if it may be the cause of an occasional issue I have with the float chambers overflowing - today this happened first on the rear, then on the front SU. It only occurs when idling. I’ve replaced the needle valve assemblies, cleaned out the float chambers (no dirt or rubber ‘slivers’) and the fuel filter is changed regularly. Could it be the pressure from the pump is too high and overwhelms the float chambers when the carbs are not drawing much fuel? Appreciate any thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 I have seen those pumps many times. I guess a replacement from the 80's? But not been an issue. However, it is possible it produces too much pressure. Solution is to use a regulator if you think this is the case. Malpassi probably the best, but Sytec seem to work (had one on a dellorto-equipped car, set to 1psi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 this design is out there , its not uncommon . but not close to the original over the years i have found SU get upset by a lumpy idle ??? you need to measure the output pressure if you can unfortunate but many aftermarket pumps have been shown to exceed the 2.5psi max so buying another may not improv i take it this is 1300 using a short lever pump and NO plastic spacer pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Osborn Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 Thanks guys, useful info. Pete, it’s an 1147 with no plastic spacer. Not sure how I can measure the pressure output but will give it some thought. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 1147 thats ok might be worth looking at the pump arm some pics on rimmers https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID005622 you dont want one that resembles the arm on the 1500 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Osborn Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 Thanks Pete, will let you know how I get on! Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 17 hours ago, Kevin Osborn said: Does anyone recognise the fuel pump in the photo? It’s been on my my Mk2 Spit ever since I bought it over 20 years ago but I only realised it was non standard when I came to dismantle it to clean it recently. It's a common enough fuel pump; still available new in that pattern. There were quite a few variations depending on who made them but they're all much of a muchness for our cars, as long as it's the correct model and the correct pump arm they all put out more or less the same pressure. That one's quite exact on top so looks to have no filter, which the domed versions sometimes have, but internally they're all virtually the same. That one is part number VE523155 by Cambiare, for Spitfires up to 1300cc, or at least, should be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 that type of pump with no removable dome cover to access the filter has one advantage I can see there's no sealing issue on the dome cover, which on my original dome cover fitment caused me much grief in the cork gasket failing, the pump body has a very narrow annulus for the cork too seal on and the harder you tighten the more compressed the cork gets. There's a broken pump brass arm somewhere in the sump of my Vitesse, been there 40 years, I prefer the laminated and rivited steel arms there stronger, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 Got curious, Reading the post. The pic above shows the pump on the 13/60 as having a cover, so assume it has filter?. More curious is the fact the the Engine, (never noticed before) appears to have the "screw on" oil filter?. Is that normal for a 1970 Build?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 I refurbished one or two a while back, left one below with no filter and the other with, which you can tell by the bolt on top, or the dome shaped cover: Inside the dome of the filtered version there's a mesh, usually of brass but sometimes just steel, that filters all kinds of debris before it reaches the carbs, so handy to have. The non-filter versions just have the bare essential bodywork to cover the pipes. You can fit an inline fuel filter somewhere along the fuel line to do much the same job. I'm a fan of the glass-bowl versions, where you can see the fuel inside, and they have a brass filter, but they're usually too big for our smaller engines, so I only have one on the GT6 and not the Heralds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 My 1968 13/60 has a screw on oil filter, original engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 All Heralds have screw-on filters; the originals were a canister oil filter which had the threads built-in, but are hard to get nowadays; later cars changed to having the threaded adaptor in the block in order to use screw-on filters. Many cars these days use an adaptor which converts threads to a more modern format to enable modern screw-on filters to fit; the modern filters being more efficient and usually anti-drain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 3 hours ago, PeteH said: The pic above shows the pump on the 13/60 as having a cover, so assume it has filter? That looks like the original type pump which does have a gauze filter. And as Colin said, all Heralds have spin-on filters. In fact all the four cylinder small engine cars including Toledo, Spitfire, etc. had that style. The six cylinder engine had a canister / replaceable paper element type on the side. The 1850/TR7/Sprint/Stag engines had a canister type, too, but it's fitted underneath the engine so doesn't suffer from drain-back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 17, 2021 Report Share Posted January 17, 2021 The pump on my 13/60 is like the second of Colin's photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 19 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: All Heralds have screw-on filters; the originals were a canister oil filter which had the threads built-in, but are hard to get nowadays; later cars changed to having the threaded adaptor in the block in order to use screw-on filters. Many cars these days use an adaptor which converts threads to a more modern format to enable modern screw-on filters to fit; the modern filters being more efficient and usually anti-drain. Around what period was the change of filter?. Mine will be a `70 build (Reg 1st Jan 1971) but on the face of it the the filter does not look like the one (above). The Engine No looks like GK 315HE. and as far as I know IS orginal?. The fuel pump does not have a significant "dome". more semi flat one?. Pete Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 38 minutes ago, PeteH said: Around what period was the change of filter?. Mine will be a `70 build (Reg 1st Jan 1971) but on the face of it the the filter does not look like the one (above). The Engine No looks like GK 315HE. and as far as I know IS orginal?. The fuel pump does not have a significant "dome". more semi flat one?. Pete Pete It was only very early heralds that had the filter colin has shown. I would guess changeover was 62ish? certainly way before the 1300 was built. Likewise the pump, I think glass domes disappeared 67/68, but that is gut feeling and looking at a variety of cars over the years. Saying that, did the 4 cylinders have glass tops at all?? I know the 6's did. And of course, many many (most?) cars have had pumps replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 hour ago, clive said: I think glass domes disappeared 67/68 I don't think the glass bowl pumps were ever fitted to four cylinder engines. There were definitely all-metal ones on late Vitesses and GT6s but on the other hand I've encountered too many glass bowl ones on unmolested late saloons (including my two-previous-owner 2500S) for them not to have been original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 hour ago, clive said: It was only very early heralds that had the filter colin has shown. I would guess changeover was 62ish? certainly way before the 1300 was built. Likewise the pump, I think glass domes disappeared 67/68, but that is gut feeling and looking at a variety of cars over the years. Saying that, did the 4 cylinders have glass tops at all?? I know the 6's did. And of course, many many (most?) cars have had pumps replaced. I know Heralds never had glass-top pumps, they seem to be larger capacity for bigger engines. I've had that dome-type of pump that I pictured on most of my cars, and they come up for sale much too regularly to be a rarity - in fact the first three on-line listings I've found for sale this morning are brand new versions, £25 - £30, one is Quinton Hazell and there are dozens available, sold as brand new and not NOS, so they're not rare even today. The photos vary between spacer / non-spacer types but it they're being sold in both types to suit the entire year range from 1961 - 1970. The flat-top versions are also readily available, I refurbished some of those recently and the parts for both are all readily available bar the filter, which shouldn't be worn or damaged unless the pump has been allowed to dry out and rust. Many pumps were replaced over the years by garages or owners as they leaked or wore out valves, so there's a good sprinkling of various types fitted. It wouldn't be the first time that I bought one of these new and used the parts to repair an older model, to keep the 'period' look of the fitted version. In fact I've just found a glass-dome pump which may (needs a few enquiries) be suitable for smaller engines; it's advertised for Lotus and Ford and the like, so might be too high flow for a small Solex - the arm is simply held in with a roll-pin so as long as the springs are the same they can be swapped for a Triumph version quite easily. The top filter for these, and in fact any replacement part, is very easy to find as it's used by many old tractors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 yes , swapped the arm from a glass top ex Vx viva i think but yes its easy to mix and match the arms on a glass top Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Aw no... now you've started me thinking... that glass domed top has six screws, and some of my other spare pumps have the same... so can the top half of one be mated to the bottom half of the other, so that it will fit the block... I've just found a small version advertised for Ford Anglia, which was around the same size as our engines. Remember the old petrol pumps where you could watch the fuel flow in a little glass dome? I always liked that, same with the Triumph engines. This Lockdown thingie is creating too many problems for idle hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Update: went out just after lunch and dug out a few old pumps to repair to destruction; this is an old AC version with the brass filter. I know it's been lying for a year or two but when you see what the filter traps over the years, you'd definitely go for an in-line filter at least, if nothing else... any tips for removing the old valves? One won't play at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 8 hours ago, PeteH said: Around what period was the change of filter?. Mine will be a `70 build (Reg 1st Jan 1971) but on the face of it the the filter does not look like the one (above). The Engine No looks like GK 315HE. and as far as I know IS orginal?. The fuel pump does not have a significant "dome". more semi flat one?. Pete Pete Slight update in that the Engine No was short a digit. GK 1315HE. A few better picies, and one`s of the Oil filter Removed, (now back in place to preserve it from dust and further general crap.) The filter looks like D102?. but is a full "spin on" type. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 The pump looks like an AC 661, so internally it should look the same as the one I've just dismantled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 I`ll know when I get round to it. It (the Engine) needs a good clean to start with, its currently as the P-O took it out of the car Circa 2015. I know I have one Low Compression reading. As I put a Battery and Start motor on it and did some tests about 2 years ago. Minimum, sump off and clean, and head off and check. I have the bill for an unleaded head from "Club Shop" circa 2008 (ish). so (hopefully) just some cleaning and valve work?. Still loads of body to work on yet. The idea is to get it into primer, send for Final Paint, and work on the Engine/Transmission whilst it`s gone. Keeping me out of the pub`s and off street corners, (as my old dad would have said). Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 38 minutes ago, PeteH said: Keeping me out of the pub`s and off street corners, (as my old dad would have said). Pete I thought Lockdown was doing that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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