Pete Lewis Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 there is a good article in this Months Courier page 7 and heres a note in practical classics sealed beam to Halogen filament is fine but LED or HID converted are outlawed properly designed LED headlamps (not a conversion) are allowed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I'd seen this one elsewhere. Seems reasonable to me as they (headlamps) were never designed for LED's or especially HID's and unless in the case of LED's the position of the light source matches halogens, the beam pattern will be off. In the case of HID's, unless the headlamps are fitted with washers and levelling (either suspension or fitting itself) they are illegal anyway. I,e you can't replace your headlamps with ones designed for HID's unless you also fit washers and levelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 had them on C5 always found the leveling annoying constantly on the upsy downsy twas a joy to revert to normal far better Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Ah well, French, say no more......... Disco self levelled all four corners of the suspension which worked great. (Could go up and down which was good for lots of things) The BMW self levelled the rear only - worked ok. The Current skoda levels the lights themselves - and points them in the direction of travel which works really well. Certainly none of them have upsy downsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 It seems confusing at first BUT what they're saying is that if you have headlamps that were originally halogens, but have been converted for LEDs or HIDs, they fail. It's not banning LED headlamps, as some seem to be claiming in various forums / magazines, but only lamps which have been modified to take HIDs by owners; I'm assuming the beam pattern is not yet correct for road use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 yes to summarise i make it this sealed beam to bulbs ok bulbs to LED fail Led as OE /designed as LED OK bulbs to HID fail HID as OE or as designed OK does that it simpler same rules be they plain filament or filament+ halogen are just a Bulb Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 With most UK classics up to about 1971 being sealed beam the conversion to LED is a good leap. Not sure why classics would want HID (costly) but of course personal choice. I have converted the Daimler to LED and the transformation is significant to say the least. Vitesse has Halogen converted from sealed units and the Saab was fitted with halogen as standard - certainly by 1976. If you can show the MOT tester via the WSM that sealed beam units were OE fitment, that should negate any testing issues if an upgrade to LED has been carried out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Anglefire said: I'd seen this one elsewhere. Seems reasonable to me as they (headlamps) were never designed for LED's ......But!!. Could the LED be designed for the original headlamp to get the correct beam pattern. This whole matter is as daft as when HiD's were first legalised for road use and blinding everybody on the road. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Anglefire said: k The Current skoda levels the lights themselves - and points them in the direction of travel which works really well. Certainly none of them have upsy downsy My Yeti has them. Makes me smile when I start the car and it is facing the wall, the lights do their little dance! My previous Skoda had the turning headlights and the 'corner light' system; back in 2007 is was quite rare. Got to work one day and a guy told me only one of my front fog lights was working, I said thanks for the info - much easier than trying to explain the corner lights system 😇 Had to change a wiper blade today on the Skoda, wow! there is still something that can be done at home and the handbook doesn't tell me to see a specialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 53 minutes ago, classiclife said: With most UK classics up to about 1971 being sealed beam the conversion to LED is a good leap. If you can show the MOT tester via the WSM that sealed beam units were OE fitment, that should negate any testing issues if an upgrade to LED has been carried out. Do you mean sealed-beam conversion to LED or conversion to halogen? I've the original sealed beams in my Herald estate, the convertible has halogen units and in a car that's used to more than just shows they're almost a necessity. LEDs for me at present are a leap too far, but that's personal taste. At my speeds I can see perfectly well with halogens and I'd hope my dead-of-night driving days are mostly behind me. I always wondered how things like this would affect the use of early Lucas 700 headlamps, where the unit isn't sealed and you can replace the bulbs? If I was to use halogen bulbs, I wonder if they would pass muster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 halogen is just a bulb with a brighter glass/gas element to its design as i read it you can use any filament bulb just not a LED or HID so a orig F700 lamp unit just takes a bulb any bulb of the right type and youre ok Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 This was all over the German press as Osram made a road-legal H7 LED replacement BUT only for certain vehicles as they have gone through the pain and effort to ensure that the pattern "correct". H7 as you guys likely know is one of the most common types of bulb and the shape of the headlight can vary greatly. One could hope that they will make an H4 version but it all comes down to money and if it is worth it. Having said that, I know in the US the sealed beams rectangular and round headlights all had the same pattern in the lens so maybe that was the case in Europe as well? I have seen a Spitfire with an LED replacement and it was ... different... I won't say off-putting but I can't decide if I find it attractive or not.. much like many wives of royalty... 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 The biggest and current issue with conversion headlights, is not the the type of lighting contained therein, but with the quality of the glass & design of the glass. It is this factor which is causing MOT testers real issues - I can speak from experience. I had a set of P700 headlights on the Daimler illuminated by Osram Nightbreaker - an excellent bulb if you know of them. The issue was that when the headlight was checked on the alignment machine there were a number of black spots within the beam pattern. This was not caused by the bulb or the perfect silvering but down to poor quality glass and the fact that the design was incorrect. To the naked eye the glass looked perfect, the alignment machine had another opinion. The dark spots were not an MOT failure, as the required amount of beam pattern was fine' it just meant that the glass was detracting from the bulb potential. As such I sold the light units. I then purchased a set of genuine Lucas headlights and to these I fitted the LED conversion - dropped it in at the MOT to check alignment etc and the beam pattern was 100% along with no black spots. All purely down to the quality of the glass. Colin - if you have sealed beams fitted as OE equipment and then get replacement headlight units; you have the choice of halogen or LED; hence my jump to LED. Whereas my Saab has OE halogen fitted and as such (within the law) cannot upgrade to LED. Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 I have some difficulty with this. There are LED "bulbs" on the market. What is the difference (other that the light output) between them and a Filament Bulb?. They are in use for rear, brake, indicator, and appear to be accepted. They do have a lower power consumption and ergo should not really affect the wiring system, fusing etc:?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Its generally considered ok in side/indicators (Subject to the flasher unit working ok with the reduced current or additional resistors install to get the current back up to the expected value) as they are not the main light source for seeing. And if an LED bulb is manufactured to the exact same specification and has a single light source, then it should still work the same - but they generally have multiple separate LED's which don't converge on the reflector correctly so the light doesn't come out of the fitting correctly and can cause stray light and blind or just be crap. All down to design of the light fitting. And hence LED lamps on modern cars are thousands (Apart from being a stupid shape which adds cost anyway) and not a "few" quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Anglefire said: Its generally considered ok in side/indicators (Subject to the flasher unit working ok with the reduced current or additional resistors install to get the current back up to the expected value) as they are not the main light source for seeing. If you use LED indicators then you will need the correct LED flasher unit - the standard filament type is unsuitable for LED indicator bulbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just now, classiclife said: If you use LED indicators then you will need the correct LED flasher unit - the standard filament type is unsuitable for LED indicator bulbs. Not if you also fit additional resistors - which somewhat makes the reduced energy consumption null and void! Big buggers they are too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Just now, Anglefire said: Not if you also fit additional resistors - which somewhat makes the reduced energy consumption null and void! Big buggers they are too. Think I'd rather pay a few extra quid and have the correct flasher unit in situ than trying to be clever with adding resistors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Most "modern" Flasher units are "electronic" now anyway, are they not?. Not the old style Bi-Metal.? Which rely on the heat produced to activate. I seem to remember seeing in a Magazine back in the 80`s the circuitry for making one using vera board and a few components?. You could adjust the flash rate with a small screwdriver. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, PeteH said: Most "modern" Flasher units are "electronic" now anyway, are they not? The ones fitted to modern cars universally are electronic. However, unlike the voltage stabiliser, most of the aftermarket replacements for bimetallic flashers are still bimetallic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, classiclife said: Colin - if you have sealed beams fitted as OE equipment and then get replacement headlight units; you have the choice of halogen or LED; hence my jump to LED. I've used plenty of halogen upgrades in the past (one of the Heralds has sealed-beam lamps just for the traditional look) but any of the LED units I saw always looked too modern for the period atmosphere. I haven't spotted any yet that could persuade me, but I understand the argument for better light and safer night driving. I just haven't been nudged that far yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Hi How might using individual LED`s (bulb) in a Vittese style twin headlight configuration be?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Going by the regulations, you can't. Halogen bulbs yes, but not LED, unless the entire unit has been specially made for LEDs and presumably passed testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 i guess LED have moved on but Garth (ex club shop) tested some a good while back ( before proposing shop stocking) and whilst they were very white and very bright there was no penetration with a vision of no more than at 30mph............ the trial stopped as just dangerous not saying they are all like it but this doesnt help you like them anyway on our classics they are banned unless you fit a fully LED designed headlamp , how many drive for long in the dark anyway when i converted the Vit6 to halogens + relays we had all 4 on dip or all 4 on main very illuminating and as the MOT only check inners and outers they never spotted the abuse of light Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Hi Isn`t there a Wattage limit anyway. I know I had 100/60 halogens in one car Granada Giha X, and was told they where not (road) legal?. MOT tester didn`t pick up on it anyway. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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