DVD3500 Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Greetings, I spent all morning taking out the dash on my '72 Spitfire MKIV (LHD). The dash is plastic which surprised me as I thought it would me metal... It went well until I started tackling the drive's side. The main problem is the knurled nut (is that correct term?) holding the speedo in is rusted stuck and it even looks like it is cross threaded as it is at an angle. I soaked it in various chemicals to loosen it but even with vice grips it isn't budging. I will likely take a Dremel to is and cut it off. Question is: When I put the Speed back in how to do I mount it to the dash? If the thread further down is OK I figure I can shorten the fixing arm use a new nut. I was also thinking of using some sort of easily removable adhesive but I would rather have a mechanical solution. I can't see or get to the other nut. I have the same problem on the tach. I can get to one nut but not the other. Any tips/ideas? So I want to try removing the fascia panel which means removing the wiper switch. Problem is. I can't figure out how. I learned by searching here these switches are really rare and I really dig the bellows version and I know mine works so I don't want to damage it. Haynes doesn't cover it and the German version of the factory repair manual says (roughly translated): "Insert an appropriate probe into the hole below the know and remove the knob.".... errrr... what? I am guessing there is some sort of release to get the knob off and then you can unscrew the (faux)chrome bezel. Finally, the fascia seems to be attached somewhere else. Even the German manual doesn't really mention how to do it and Haynes doesn't either. I know the instruments are not holding it in as when I pull on it they move with it. My guess is there is some sort of bolt or maybe a plastic connector somewhere on there. Any ideas/tips? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 Small note: I think I figured out the wiper switch. There is a hole you put a thin rod into and pull the knob off. The problem is getting the bezel off and on without damaging it too much. Some people I guess have made tools. Any pictures appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 There should be a hole under the neck of the knob, large enough for a very small screwdriver or blunted nail; when you press inwards you'll compress a spring catch and the knob should then slide off, but you need to press and pull at the same time - press the screwdriver / nail whatever, and pull the knob simultaneously. To get to the tacho you might need to remove the speedo first or vice-versa; remember that you can rotate the unit in the dash to make access easier. Don't shorten the threads if you can help it, there might not be enough left for you to use on refitting. With some gauges, the bracket may work if screwed into place with only one nut, but get it out first and see what you need to worry about when it's free. Edit: glad to see you worked it out.... as for the bezel you can buy special tools which make removal and tightening much easier. (Just search Triumph bezel tool) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 17, 2021 Report Share Posted February 17, 2021 way back in time i cut one from a bit of 15mm copper pipe just filed it to leave two lugs to engage the sleeve nut Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 The wipe bezel is possibly "glued" in place by a 50 year old degraded rubber washer. there is a number of ways of fixing the rusted up speedo fixings easiet is to just fit a replacement, or transfer your internals into a better casing. There are lots of spares floating about, though most will be MPH speedos, so swapping casings is probably way to go. you could also get some thin studdng, remove the damage done one, and fit a new stud, either gluing in or double nutting. the length is important to get the straps at right angles, and you can not shorten the straps. And try to keep the black accountants driven black plastic dash, most got changed to wood over the years, so not many cars still have them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 Thanks Gents for all the info! I will search around for the tool. With any luck it won't be stuck like a tick on hot summer's day... I was planning on trying to cut the nut off to save the thread as much as possible. Once it is out I can assess the damage and determine how to handle it. The speedo works. I tested it with drill so I really hope to keep it. Spares here in Germany are sort of weird. Often you get stuff dirt cheap but it goes in waves, like when someone is breaking up a car. Otherwise they hang around at nearly the same price as new (chrome and other "shiny" bit being the exception of course). The weather is threatening to be almost summer like so I will hopefully get a chance to get it out. The PO put in two gauges on the passenger side and the writing on the middle section is nearly gone. I will try not to damage it it getting it out but I was planning on replacing it with wood (the new interior is beige/biscuit) .... So if a plastic one is worth something to someone I will try to keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 19 hours ago, DVD3500 said: Small note: I think I figured out the wiper switch. There is a hole you put a thin rod into and pull the knob off. The problem is getting the bezel off and on without damaging it too much. Some people I guess have made tools. Any pictures appreciated! Hi, I haven't a clear idea of the type of bezel nut you have but this is what I use on the TR4A bezels Large bezel one side and small bezel on the other Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 cant do a pic of it but i suggested just file a short bit of copper tube to leave two pegs on its end to fit the wiper sleeve nut they are not that tight , i used it for years but it got loaned and never seen since Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said: leave two pegs on its end That depends whether it's the two-slots type bezel or the crinkly-edge type. I suspect it's the latter, so Roger's tool is what you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 Yes it is "crinkly" at least 4 maybe 6 "dents" on the edge. I've not got any copper tubing lying around and hardware stores are all close because of some virus or something, but I might find something close enough... In fact I think I have a tool for a bicycle or a washing machine that might do it... Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 If you damage it, they're easy enough to replace... but try pushing the switch forwards from behind the dash as you unscrew it; this can often lift it off the wood sufficiently to loosen, and once it starts to turn it's progressively easier. You can also - carefully - rotate the switch rather than the bezel, of course once you've removed the wiring, but the switch is easier to grip. Just don't break it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisJB Posted February 18, 2021 Report Share Posted February 18, 2021 Bent nose pliers with rounded ends (large internal circlip pliers) can work as a tool for undoing the washer switch bezel if you are very careful and you have some. The problem is that you can scratch the surface of the dash if the ends of the pliers rub against it. Pliers with "D" shaped ends might also do damage to the bezel. I can't remember if the switch will rotate in the dash, it might be keyed so it can't turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2021 I actually fond someone who has a working pump switch if I fark it all up. Ballistol is safe on plastics so I will try to get that in there if things seem to stick. Will let y'all know how I get on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 I hate it when I am right.... So after searching for nearly 15 minutes I realized the hole was on top of the knob of the wiper switch. I sprayed Ballistol in the hole as it looked dusty (Ballistol does not hurt plastics, it is great for use on Scalexteric [slot cars] and toy trains ;-)) but no matter what I put in the hole I could not feel any movement. I tried pushing and pulling the knob (gently) while pushing down and when I put a small screwdriver in to see if there was a screw in there and turned it the dang knob snapped off.... With the knob off no amount of pressure could get the piece of the shaft out of the knob. Given the bezel has scratch marks methinks the PO mounted the knob wrong and maybe glued it in. I will try to coax the shaft out in good light (slot car tools to the rescue) and see what is what. The guy with the switch does not have a knob (for the switch... don't get dirty now...) but I I am sure I saw one for sale that didn't cost much... The dash finally came loose. The plastic dashes have 2 nuts at a roughly 45° angle going to the upper left (on a LHD car). Once they were out the dash came loos and was only held by the speedo and the hazard switch. I had to cut through the nut on the speedo and in my haste I touched it and got a nice 2nd degree burn (aka blister) on my finger. (I was using a Dremel) Now that the dash is loose I see that the alumin(i)um nut has reacted with the thread and rusted to it and I can see that is the same on the other side. I have drenched the other nut in breaker fluid (is that what it is called in English? My mind is feeble right now) but have not tried to loosen it yet. I will likely try to use a tap and die set to rethread the bolt (I got too close and cut into it a little...) but I am not sure there is enough "meat" on it to do that. The gauge case/body/housing is fairly rusty so maybe swapping is the easiest option. I might get the nuts that way as well... Are the housings more or less the same across Spitfire/GT6 models or do I have to get a MKIV/1500 type? I think Haynes mentions the MKIII and earlier being different and I think the late MKIV/1500 may have different gauges all together... So a few steps forward .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, DVD3500 said: I have drenched the other nut in breaker fluid (is that what it is called in English? My mind is feeble right now) Penetrating oil, WD40 to most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 13 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said: Penetrating oil, WD40 to most of us. Except WD40 is a very poor penetrating fluid. Plus Gas used to be the fluid of choice, using something else Noe I can't remember the name of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 You just need a speedo with same tell tale light pattern. 1500's have green backlights, done by a plastic light cover in the casing. Will have a look in the garage to see what speedo look the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, thescrapman said: Except WD40 is a very poor penetrating fluid. Still used by most of us, though - it's the first name you'll get if you ask generally. I also use Degrip All and for heavily rusted bits, Innotec Deblock Oil... and 90% of people go: 'what?' Other uses include removing chewing gum and adhesive stickers, and lessening friction on metal-stringed musical instruments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 I have lived more of my life outside the US now than I have in so sometimes words escape me. Google does not always translate well, for example "tap and die set" was translated as roughly "hit them and die". 😄 The German word is literally "rust dissolving fluid" and it does a much better job than WD 40. WD as you likely all know stands for "water displacement" so I mostly use it on tools that get wet but I follow up with other oils. I don't have the gauge out completely yet (mother in law's car is blocking the garage.:-) ) but I can see the voltage regulator is also very rusty ... so I am looking for a good replacement cases until I have time to go out and pull the speedo and decide the way forward, either new case (with new nuts), replacing the thread, recutting the thread, shortened the brass brace etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 On 18/02/2021 at 12:26, Pete Lewis said: cant do a pic of it but i suggested just file a short bit of copper tube to leave two pegs on its end to fit the wiper sleeve nut they are not that tight , i used it for years but it got loaned and never seen since Pete Sadly, the story of every "dads" garage, Can I borrow ??????. Never to be seen again. Like my 9/16 AF 30deg (head) angle spanner, which was the only thing that would work on a Mini carb; to manifold studs!!. 😭😭. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 Yeah I asked about a hub puller in a forum and I got about 12 "non-offers" so I ordered one from Iain before the new rules kicked in.. Hopefully I will be able pick up a suitable used switch this week... and I have some ideas on maybe getting the old one working again as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 It is all out... I had to cut the other nut off but the heat from cutting plus vibration meant I could unscrew the nut by hand once I had cut a wedge into it. The threads on the one side looked fine. I even test fitted a nut (I actually found one in the dash...) The other one I nicked the thread a bit much but I reckon I can shorten the brace maybe 5 mm and if I make a clean cut I can re-use this case. The rust isn't too bad either though the voltage regulator might need renewing... I am meeting a guy who breaks Spitfires tomorrow for a new wiper switch and am taking the casing with me in case if has the same kind and we can do a swap. That might be easiest. I posted pictures here: https://slotcarp.wordpress.com/dashboard-autopsy-23-feb-2021/ Password is: Dash with a capital D Sorry for linking and not uploading I am working on a blog type thing and it was just easier. I work in web tech stuff so the password should keep Zuckerberg and his friends at bay. Also it keeps the amount of content on the forum down. Hope that is all OK. So on with more slaughter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted February 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 Well the switches the guy brought were all no good so I will have to try to get this one to work or get a replacement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVD3500 Posted March 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 Small update: In my toolbox there was a 6 mm hexagonal drive bit and on a whim I stuck in on the broken shaft and VOILÀ! It works! I haven't tested it if the stroke of the plunger is less now but it can't be more than a few mm. You can drill a hole in the bit and use a screw to hold it in place. Such a cool repair! The speedo is not shaping up as well. I will likely have to rethread it with a metric pitch as I can't get anything to hold firmly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 1, 2021 Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 and then when youre searching for the socket ......... where is it Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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