Triumph Vitesse quaterlight

[Robin]

I need to replace the quaterlight seal - it it possible to remove the quaterlight without taking out the main window glass or does the glass need to come out first of all?

 

 

[Nick Jones]

I reckon you can get it out without removing the window.  Might not be easier though…. Especially the putting it back bit…..

[Colin Lindsay]

The main glass runs in the channel of the quarterlight bracket, so if you can manage to brace the glass inside the door so that it will stay put once fully wound down, you can remove the quarterlight assembly without removing the door glass completely from the door by undoing the bolts and pulling the channel out round it, letting the glass remain in the door where hopefully one channel and the winding mechanism will be enough to keep it steady. On reassembly just slide the frame back into the door, manoeuvre it round the door glass so that it runs freely, fit and retighten the bolts.

[Robin]

Ok - thanks for the tips. Will give it a go

[A TR7 16V]

This isn't a job I've done before, and I may have done it totally wrong; but I've just taken the quarterlight out of a spare, scrap door to see about replacing the quarterlight top hinge bracket without replacing the whole unit. It was only practise cos the spare's for the other side of course.

However, I got the rubber out on the way and I may use that later, as it's better than the one in the car on that side.

But getting the rubber out meant taking the 1/2 nut and spring and lock washer off the pin that forms the bottom hinge of the quarterlight - the pin is upper right in the attached pic (the spring, and washer are in the bottom of the door and the nut is on the garage floor, I think, under a pile of Sprint wheels). Then, getting the swinging glass out of it's frame unit also meant drilling out a rivet/rivets in the top hinge. Because I was after the hinge plate - still attached to  glass on the lower-mid left -, I chose to drill out the two brass rivets in the door frame part, but there may be better ways I can't see. Then the top of the glass goes backwards and lifts out, and the seal follows. I assume assembly is the reverse, though I guess I now need to look for blind countersunk copper rivets for the top hinge plate.

In which case, if your are going to have to take off that nut and drill out those rivets anyway, can you not do that with it in the door like I did? The 1/2 nut isn't that hard to get at with the card off, and I had no problems drilling the rivets out with a 3.2mm drill.

I did look, and the only other way I can see to get the rubber out and in, is to cut it where it goes round the long pin through the frame. However, I'm not sure that even then the rubber comes out or goes back in around the hinges - I'd already drilled its rivets out and pulled the top of the glass out before I got the the rubber out, and the bottom run came out with the glass still around the pin. 

[martyn wright]

Take a look at Bodywork & fittings Page 14- Ref my 1600/6

[Robin]

15 hours ago, martyn wright said:

Take a look at Bodywork & fittings Page 14- Ref my 1600/6

Hi Martyn

Thanks for the link. Apologies as I think I've misled you - I need to replace the seal that sits in the quarter light channel for the window itself. Just trying to work out if I can remove the quater light assembly without removing the glass.

[Colin Lindsay]

You can remove it but it means splitting the rivet / pivot at the top front. It can be replaced with a small nut and bolt, or another rivet, but I've never yet seen anything as 'neat' as the original setup. I'd be interested in photos of drilling out the two top rivets so removing the entire bracket (the seal can be replaced this way easily enough) as it's something I'd attempt myself if anyway easy.

However: if we're not talking about the triangular seal are we talking about the rubber seal around the quarterlight glass where it's inserted into the frame? Just pull the glass out, be careful not to bend any of the metal but it will pull out without the whole unit needing to be removed, and the glass can be replaced with a good sealant.

[A TR7 16V]

44 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

You can remove it but it means splitting the rivet / pivot at the top front. It can be replaced with a small nut and bolt, or another rivet, but I've never yet seen anything as 'neat' as the original setup. I'd be interested in photos of drilling out the two top rivets so removing the entire bracket (the seal can be replaced this way easily enough) as it's something I'd attempt myself if anyway easy.

What are you looking for photos of? I just put a 3.2mm drill through the centre of each of the two rivets. Took a bit of drilling sideways to get the drill down the middle, but they're only brass.

Getting the glass and its subframe out, after the nut was off the bottom hinge pin, did take a bit of wriggling, but weren't too hard. If I do the job that way - I can only seem to find a complete unit to buy, and might swap that instead - I'll take more note and maybe some pics. But I'm not doing owt till I get all the parts.

If I do replace the plate alone, I'm also going to have to split and re-rivet/bolt the external hinge, and I'm still am thinking about what use in that. I also though of a stainless nut and bolt, maybe a coach bolt if I can get one that small - looks about 1/8th inch. Or maybe a very long pop rivet not fully pulled to the point of the pin snapping, and the pin knocked out once it's nipped up enough to hold, but not too tight on the hinge. A copper or a stainless steel one might do, if I can get one that long. I did think about an ordinary roundhead rivet, but I'm not sure about such a cavalier attitude to buying extra tools for the job.

[Robin]

Hi Again

Think my original post may be confusing...

I need to replace the felt seal in the quarter light channel where the main window sits when it's wound up or down (not the quater light glass seal). So I'm trying to work out if I can remove the quaterl ight frame from the door to fit the new felt seal without removing the main window glass.

 

 

[Pete Lewis]

think until you try this is an open ended dont remember job 

its the angle and roll to  extact the NDV and glass channel   needs a good bit of wagging around to remove it all 

Pete

[martyn wright]

Yes!  I agree with Pete!  I took the whole glass mech and inners of the door as I was refurbishing them.  I had to drill out the 2 rivets as per Colin Lindseys comments!

[A TR7 16V]

5 minutes ago, Robin said:

Hi Again

Think my original post may be confusing...

I need to replace the felt seal in the quarter light channel where the main window sits when it's wound up or down (not the quater light glass seal). So I'm trying to work out if I can remove the quaterl ight frame from the door to fit the new felt seal without removing the main window glass.

 

 

Sorry if we've diverged a bit. I need to get the hinge split and the bracket off the frame cos mine's bust. But that goes a long way to getting the triangular seal out. And, if I have the right of it, Colin appears to be thinking about getting that seal out in the same way. I'm also thinking about replacing the seal on the other side of my car, cos now I have a seal that's much better than the one that's in.

Graham

[A TR7 16V]

On the issue of taking out the two rivets at the top of the frame, what does anyone think about what rivets to put back. I can't find any closed countersunk ones or countersunk open brass/copper ones, but I can get either stainless steel or aluminium open countersunk. I'm thinking stainless and some filler.

Graham 

[PeteH]

Brake pad Rivets?.

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

On 21/06/2021 at 12:27, A TR7 16V said:

What are you looking for photos of? I just put a 3.2mm drill through the centre of each of the two rivets.

Sorry. It was just to spot any pitfalls in advance and see how the original rivets were replaced or substituted; but as you've posted yourself, they haven't been. 

[t-stag]

Useful information above. I'm just about to strip down both quarterlights to replace the 2 seals for each. Rimmer has the main seal listed as 803558/9 at £73.20 for the pair. No information on the seal around the glass itself.

Any suggestions for any more economic sources?

Steve

[Colin Lindsay]

Just now, t-stag said:

Useful information above. I'm just about to strip down both quarterlights to replace the 2 seals for each. Rimmer has the main seal listed as 803558/9 at £73.20 for the pair. No information on the seal around the glass itself.

Any suggestions for any more economic sources?

Steve

Sadly, Steve, that's the price! Paddocks are £61, add VAT and it's the same as Rimmers. Unless an old set comes up - and even then the rubber may be perished - they're probably all from the same supplier so all around the same money.

[Paul H]

29 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Sadly, Steve, that's the price! Paddocks are £61, add VAT and it's the same as Rimmers. Unless an old set comes up - and even then the rubber may be perished - they're probably all from the same supplier so all around the same money.

Have u checked Canleys 

Paul 

[martyn wright]

Canleys are: £72.63 a pair!  Unfortunately I think most parts have gone up?

[t-stag]

Had to drill out or cut off all the fasteners for the quarter lights as mostly rusted. Now just have to get the glass out, left to soak. All the seals for the doors will have to be replaced as deteriorated. This 52 year old lady is putting up a fight. 

[A TR7 16V]

Here's  few pics of putting the replacement quarter light in the , when I could have replaced the rubber if I'd wanted and had one. The rivets holding the top bracket of the old one drilled okay. The tab washer on the bottom hinge was a bitch and the nut sheared off rather than unscrewed despite an overnight soak in WD40.

The bottom hinge pin went in first. With the quarterlight angled back from its proper position and with the rubber just pushed out of the way at the top, the top hinge bracket went into the groove for the rubber with a bit of shoving. Then it moved forward easily so the holes lined up. I put the rubber back before the rivets, in case there was a problem, but there wasn't. Finally, two countersunk blind rivets fixed it.

 

[A TR7 16V]

So, having done the passenger side quarterlight, I set too to improve the driver's.

The problem there was the seal had perished and split and was flopping about a bit in the wind. I should have taken a pic of it first, but I just started without thinking of that. But here's what it looked like when I took it out, and the splits were there already:

So, as I had the seal from the spare door, which I'd taken the quarterlight out of to see if I could, which is not in that great condition but much better than the one in the car, I set to to see if I could replace it with the quarterlight left in place.

That meant cutting in at the hole where the bottom hinge pin goes through. I tried to cut just the inside of that, but when I did, the other side fell apart - I said it weren't a goodun. Anyway, looking at the job, it looks like hard to get the outer bit in going down the side of the pin, so I think it wouldn't have worked. However, if I was doing it with a good one, I might try. 

So, with the seal cut like that, and a jar of Vaseline (yes, I do remember the Bonzo's sketch about it's use) it was an easy job to fit. The results aren't perfect, but I didn't start with a good one. However, here are the pics:

This is much, much better than what it was like before.

And while it may leak, there are already holes in the seal to let that drain into the door.

Graham

[A TR7 16V]

Next. I further broke the quarterlight with the broken top hinge from the passenger side taking it out - the nut and bottom part of the bottom hinge sheared off. So, as its essentially scrap, I thought I'd look at whether that bottom hinge pin can be replaced. I think it can, though I haven't got further than taking it apart. 

I took the glass out, with some advice from Colin on that, which proved easy as he said. Under the inner seal, the pin is attached to a rectangular plate that's riveted into the swinging frame with one of them 1/8th brass rivets:

So I drilled that out (which didn't go perfectly, and I damaged the hole in the frame, but it would still repair were it worth it). The stud still wouldn't come out, because it's composed of a steel bolt with a brass tube too used to being together to ever separate, and the brass tube won't go through the hole in the frame. So I ground that off with the angle grinder (without damaging the frame anymore).

Here's the rump of the bolt and plate laid on the goodish one from the other side:

So, I reckon with a bit of threaded stud welded at right angle to a plate with a hole for the rivet, a flat filed on the lower part of the thread, and the right ID brass tube slid on, it should be easy to repair one of these that's sheared off and put it back into service. The spring and tab washer off the one that sheared look like they'd go again.

Graham

[PeteH]

I`ve been following this thread, as I have the Herald to tackle. I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of Seals, along with shed load of other necessary door stuff, from Canley. I have offered the bare frames up to see how the look now the Doors are close to alignment. One question, does the top of the frame align with the top of the Windscreen?. As you can see in the picky. It appears to be at least 1/4" or more too low? Both sides.

 

Pete