Alternator conversion

[jagnut66]

Hi, 

I converted my Herald to an alternator today and found a problem I wasn't expecting.

I got my kit from Rimmer Bros., so expected it all to be 'tried and tested'. 

However, if I'd used the adjustment bracket in the kit the fan belt would have been flopping round like someone who's drunk too much beer on their wedding night................

Totally useless.

So I refitted the original adjustment bracket from the Dynamo, with 4 washers to space it out, lo and behold, plenty of adjustment and a firm fixing when it was all tightened up.

As you can see from the puictures, the new adjuster that comes with the kit is too short and too straight, it leaves no room for adjustment.

Best wishes,

Mike.

[NonMember]

While I agree with Mathew's sentiment on Rimmers, in this case the kit is correct. The new adjuster bracket is what the factory fitted on Mk4 Spitfire, Toledo, Dolomite etc. when using an alternator. There is a shorter fan belt specified to match.

Not that there's anything particularly wrong with using the longer bracket as you have done. My Vitesse was set up like that for years (possibly still is, I don't remember whether I changed it).

[poppyman]

10 hours ago, jagnut66 said:

Hi, 

I converted my Herald to an alternator today and found a problem I wasn't expecting.

I got my kit from Rimmer Bros., so expected it all to be 'tried and tested'. 

However, if I'd used the adjustment bracket in the kit the fan belt would have been flopping round like someone who's drunk too much beer on their wedding night................

Totally useless.

So I refitted the original adjustment bracket from the Dynamo, with 4 washers to space it out, lo and behold, plenty of adjustment and a firm fixing when it was all tightened up.

As you can see from the puictures, the new adjuster that comes with the kit is too short and too straight, it leaves no room for adjustment.

Best wishes,

Mike.

Hi Mike, would the old bracket not fit the other side of the alternator? I notice the old bracket has a slight kink so flattened out it should fit without the need for washers.

Tony.

[johny]

Have you got the engine side valances fitted? On some models when converting to an alternator I think if the original fanbelt is used the smaller pulley means the alternator comes up against the left hand valance before the belt is tight.

I think what Rimmers have supplied would work but the kit should include the correct belt! The James Paddock offering does appear to come with a belt but no way of knowing if its the right one....

[jagnut66]

1 hour ago, johny said:

Have you got the engine side valances fitted?

Hi, 

Yes, on both sides. Plenty of clearance between the Alternator and the valance.

2 hours ago, poppyman said:

would the old bracket not fit the other side of the alternator? I notice the old bracket has a slight kink so flattened out it should fit without the need for washers.

Not sure what you mean by the 'other side'? Do you have a picture of what you mean? 

I had to space the old one out with washers because it needs to be slightly further forward to work with the Alternator. I think it just looks like there is a kink in the picture, the old bracket is the same shape as when it was used with the Dynamo.

No matter how you fit the new adjustment bar, the slot is too short to take up the slack in the new belt. Plus the 'curved' slot in the old adjuster works better. 

If I can find a single piece spacer to replace the washers I will. I will see if there are any old alternator bracket spacers on sale anywhere.

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Pete Lewis]

if ypu repos the adjuster to the back of the alt  would that lug be thicker than the washers ???

do make sure the tail lug has the tube spacer midway on the suppoert lug so there is some shft allowed due to heat expansion

its an important little bush , if the lug is claamped solid it will soon fracture 

this what i did on the vit6  

Pete

[poppyman]

20 minutes ago, jagnut66 said:

Hi, 

Yes, on both sides. Plenty of clearance between the Alternator and the valance.

Not sure what you mean by the 'other side'? Do you have a picture of what you mean? 

I had to space the old one out with washers because it needs to be slightly further forward to work with the Alternator. I think it just looks like there is a kink in the picture, the old bracket is the same shape as when it was used with the Dynamo.

No matter how you fit the new adjustment bar, the slot is too short to take up the slack in the new belt. Plus the 'curved' slot in the old adjuster works better. 

If I can find a single piece spacer to replace the washers I will. I will see if there are any old alternator bracket spacers on sale anywhere.

Best wishes,

Mike.

Hi Mike, take washers off  the bolt flatten the bracket and put the bracket on the back of the alternator to adjust it. Forget the new bracket just using what you have in your pictures.

Tony.

[johny]

Think, as Mike says, the kink in the original bracket is an optical ilusion in the photo...

Didnt the kit come with a belt?

[jagnut66]

58 minutes ago, poppyman said:

Hi Mike, take washers off  the bolt flatten the bracket and put the bracket on the back of the alternator to adjust it. Forget the new bracket just using what you have in your pictures.

Tony.

Thanks Tony, I understand what you mean now.

46 minutes ago, johny said:

Didnt the kit come with a belt?

Yes, comprehensive kit in that regard, it's simply that the new adjustment bracket is as useful as a chocolate teapot (polite version).😉

Best wishes,

Mike.

[johny]

If the supplied belt is the right length I think your kit would have fitted ok although I read a thread recently about it being difficult to remove the nº1  sparkplug with an alternator...

[rogerguzzi]

26 minutes ago, johny said:

I read a thread recently about it being difficult to remove the nº1  sparkplug with an alternator...

Hello Johny

                   Not if you fit a Nippon Denso alternator

Roger

[NonMember]

4 hours ago, johny said:

If the supplied belt is the right length I think your kit would have fitted ok

Yes and no. The problem is that, not only does the alternator fit closer to the engine, but most alternator-equipped engines from the factory had a bigger bottom pulley (and water pump pulley). So the belt you need for a standard factory alternator fit onto a Herald engine is shorter than either the standard one for a Herald or for a later Spitfire.

[johny]

I see, but surely the kit will only be used to convert dynamo cars so should come with the correct size belt?

[NonMember]

Yes, you might think so. But if you remember from the start of the thread, this kit is from Rimmers, so I wouldn't expect anything that sensible.

[Colin Lindsay]

Just as a slight drift: I'm fitting two alternators at present to both Herald rebuilds but have found that the standard spacers don't line up the front pulleys; in fact there's almost an inch of difference with the alternator sitting much too far backwards. Anyone got any kind of innovative solution before I run to the In-Laws to have a bigger spacer machined up? (Need two long bolts for the lower fitting too...)

[Pete Lewis]

what alternators are they Colin ?   thats a big diference in off set 

Pete

[PeteH]

Cannot attest to Triumph`s as it`s 30 years since I converted the Vittesse. But more recently A guy was bemoaning the fact that having converted his Minor? (I Think), one of the bottom alternator flanges had cracked, investigation revealed the the width between the lower brackets was too wide and needed the (overlooked) packing distance piece/washers to avoid the strain when bolted up. If I can find the article (P C I think,) I will post the reference.

Pete

[NonMember]

18 minutes ago, PeteH said:

one of the bottom alternator flanges had cracked, investigation revealed the the width between the lower brackets was too wide and needed the (overlooked) packing distance piece/washers to avoid the strain when bolted up

Indeed. I once managed to snap a lug clean off an alternator on a TR7 just by tightening the bolt, not because that packing was missing but merely because the sliding tube that's supposed to take up the final tolerance had seized into the casting.

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

what alternators are they Colin ?   thats a big diference in off set 

Pete

One is 'standard' Lucas 17ACR, the other is a small Delco unit. 

I may have solved part of the problem already; I went to look for photos and realised the alternator top lug goes in front of the sliding adjuster, not behind... so will update with photos later today if I get time and confirm what gaps I now have. 

[Pete Lewis]

come on Colin you ought to know that blindfold      Ha !

Pete

[dougbgt6]

Yeh Colin, get with the program!

Doug

[Colin Lindsay]

Don't forget that one of these is the car where, on finding one of the waterpump housing bolts too long, I trimmed 1/4 inch off it only to find that it was now too short to take the alternator bracket.

[johny]

All this talk of snapping lugs off, isnt there suppose to be some free play in the fixing to allow for thermal expansion of the alternator...

[Pete Lewis]

yes the rea lug on this vintage alternator has a slidding tube/bush  but Robs was stuck solid 

just shows they work when they dont    crack !!

pete

[jagnut66]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

but Robs was stuck solid 

Another case for copper grease! 😃

Best wishes,

Mike.