Waynebaby Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I was like a kid on Christmas morning today when the refurbished cylinder head for my GT6 came back (via the club shop) from Ivor Searles. Imagine my horror then when on unwrapping the package I found that there was a large chunk of cylinder head missing from the gasket mating face at the front LHS of the head - big enough to be able to look down at number one cam-follower from outside the engine! It transpires that Searles noticed the damage after washing the head but considered it only cosmetic and so went ahead and refurbished it anyway (d'oh!) They couldn't find the missing bit of the head in the washing basket and so I have to assume that the damage was done in transit between my house and the club shop or between the shop and Searles. Either way, as I packaged up the head the liability appears to be with yours truly and since the club shop and I used different carriers for the two parts of the journey I can't see either accepting any responsibility. That's £380 I'll not see again! The moral of the story seems to be that if you are sending rare/expensive bits of Triumph away either make sure you pack them very securely (I was sure I had) or deliver them yourself. Does anybody know where I can find a recessed cylinder head for a GT6 Mk3 please? Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Wayne. I'm certain that can be welded - I have seen worse. As it's on the edge, the main upward piston pressure is absorbed by the cylinder bolts and as such your corner in far less stressed. Once the weld is done you will obviously have to have the head skimmed but that can be done locally - where are you ?? I would like to see the other side please for a better assessment. My welding is a decent standard but this requires a specific welding procedure - definitely a specialist job. That being said, because the weld area is small I think the cost would be as well - it's not an intricate weld to fix that damage. I do not think you have anything to loose by looking at this option and once done the cylinder will be 100%. All IMHO of course. Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynebaby Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Richard, Thanks for your response and for giving me a bit of hope. I will certainly see if I can find someone up here on Teesside who can weld cast iron. here's a picture of the other side of the head. Regards Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 As well as welding, it might be a little easier to braze it - still fairly specialist, but should be cheaper than throwing the head away and starting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I agree that welding could recover your head - that corner is only about keeping the oil in the push rod gallery. But it would, IMHO, cost at least as much again, and you will always be worried about the repair. Unless it's precious to you to keep the original head, it's not that hard to find another: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-GT6-TR6-Complete-Cylinder-Head-Block-Rocker-Cover-Valves-/191784466283?hash=item2ca73eb76b:g:6jcAAOSw-zxWmppQ John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hello Wayne. Thanks for the other photo, very useful and I stand by my original comment. Have a chat with this company who are leaders in all sorts of welding requirements. They are Monday - Friday. You have good photos so will be useful if you need to send when asking their advice. Slinden Services LtdL3 Olympic House,Westminster Ind. EstateMeashamDerbyshireDE12 7DS Telephone: +44 (0)1530 274646 www.castironweldingrepairs.co.uk Kevin mentioned brazing. I have never brazed but having spent the last hour or so reading about the application I think this is another viable option; but without a doubt Slinden Services should be able to assist and steer you straight. Good luck and keep us posted - interesting job. Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdennison Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Is it just me that finds it appalling that the refurb company didn't give you a call and offer advice that there was a problem with the head? I would have expected a "did you know there is a chunk missing from your head?" conversation. It is pretty obvious that if you're going to get the head refurbed that you are not afraid of spending a few quid and want a decent job. This is a top notch company, shouldn't be any surprises. No way should they have let that job out of the premises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynebaby Posted January 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Thanks for the contributions everybody. I'm going down two routes at the moment - trying to find another head and seeing if the original can be repaired. I quite agree with the sentiments expressed by James in that having chosen Ivor Searle because of their reputation I didn't expect them to send me back a beautifully refurbished piece of scrap - especially after they'd noticed that there was a defect before starting the work. Garth in the TSSC shop is negotiating on my behalf because the customer supplier relationship is: Ivor Searle -> TSSC -> me. On another point, if anybody is planning to do the same with their cylinder head I'd find out which courier Garth uses to forward on your head to Ivor Searle and make sure you use the same one. Garth doesn't unpack your head before forwarding it on and so if it arrives at the far end in a damaged state there is no way of telling at which stage of the journey it was damaged, meaning that if there are two courier companies involved (as in my case) you've no chance of proving liability or making an insurance claim. We live and learn Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 It's fairly obvious - to me at least - that whoever dropped this, threw it or otherwise abused the package must have known; that would take a fairly solid impact. If it left you in good condition I'd assume - and again it's an assumption on my part - that you'd have a good case against the carrier; it's up to them to show that packaging was inadequate and in order to do that a) they'll have to admit that they damaged it and it looks like a substantial impact, not really the due care and attention of parcels that you'd expect. Sadly with two carriers involved it may be far from simple. It's also pretty poor work, as jamesdennison says, for a refurbishment company to work on a head with that sort of damage and not point it out to you or the club - what's the point of refurbishing a head that can't be used due to other damage? The good news appears to be that that's repairable - get a quote for repairs and then weigh that against the cost of a replacement s/h head from someone like Chic Doig. I have two axles to post on Monday and am in the process of trying to find packaging that will keep them safe but won't weigh more than the parts themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomL Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 As others have said, I can't believe they went ahead with the work without informing you that the head was already damaged. At least it would have given you a chance to give them another, undamaged head. Not a great advert for their work. I hope you have success with putting it right. Let us know how you get on. Regards,Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Who did you pay for the work? They are the ones who you deal with, and are responsible for the cock-up. As above, Ivor Searle should have notified you of damage. After all, would they have carried on it the head was cracked around the valves? I would expect not. Likewise because they never informed you, I would be suspicious that there are other possibilities (like they dropped the head before/during/after the work was carried out) They must have signed for receipt of the head in good condition. As worst I would expect them to carry out the work on a fresh head you supply to make up for their incompetence in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynebaby Posted January 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Clive, The TSSC shop were paid for the work and Garth is on the case with Ivor Searle. I also have my suspicions about what exactly happened at the far end, although in fairness to Ivor Searle the colouration of the fracture seems to show that the damage was done before the head was put into the wash bath at the start of the refurbishment process and so the balance of probability points towards damage in transit. The fact that the damage wasn't noticed before the process had begun does call into question their QA however, as does the fact that having spotted it they continued without first referring back to the TSSC. I'm left feeling sick because I'm spending good money trying to keep a bit of British automotive history on the road, but it's the usual story - once something is out of your hands it only takes one careless individual to mess things up. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Wayne. Something I did not note on the Slinden website, unless it has gone on there within the last 48hrs is that you can email your jpeg for them to assess the damage and provide a repair quotation - nice touch. However I think phone first, send pics after. They also do a collection & return service. IF you do end up using them, give them & tell them you can do plenty of posting on the TSSC to spread the word - you never know it may help financially !! Best wishes. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 Garth is a good chap, and hopefully will be able to sort something out. Once all this is simply written down, it shows how badly Ivor Searle have acted. For their own sakes they need to sort the situation out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 I can`t believe any machine shop would carry out skimming and other work on a head that is clearly un-usable or even scrap,shame you already paid as i would not even contemplate a repair,i would be asking for another head to be done at no cost to yourself. Unbeliveable! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynebaby Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 According to a list produced by Chris Wittor, there are fourteen variations of the Triumph six cylinder 2000 and 2500 head, only three of which are suitable for a 2 litre engine with domed pistons. As luck would have it Garth happens to have a spare head of the correct specification sitting in the club shop! This'll get sent down to Searles for fettling in the next few days, so it looks as if my engine rebuild may well be soon back on track. We're sending the damaged head back as well so that Searles can, (a) double check the spare head is dimensionally correct and ( b ) use the head to see where/how the QA arrangements can be improved to avoid this kind of thing happening again. Wayne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 That's a top result Wayne; very pleased for you. Good luck. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Apart from the in's and outs of how and where this all showed up this flange is a common failure when at some time in its life it was levered to release the head A metalergical examination would give some clues or the age but it could well have been hidding for years hope the replacement works out well, I have been on a tour of Ivor searles and they are surpisingly pretty meticulous , Let hope lesssons are learned Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Result! Garth has a knack of "fixing" things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomL Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Yes. Great news! Please let us know how you get on. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishmosh Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 That's why you should use the club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynebaby Posted February 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Whilst waiting for progress with the "new" head sourced by Garth I thought I'd see if there was any chance of compensation from Parcelforce for the damage to the original done en route to Ivor Searles. Parcelforce complaints department kindly pointed me in the direction of their terms and conditions where I found a list of exclusions to damage compensation - and yes, you guessed it - automotive parts are excluded from damage compensation. Just goes to show that you really should read the small print. If I'd bothered to read the T&Cs it would definitely have convinced me to drive down with the head. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Just wondering how this thread is different from the one where the guy got his stuff delivered to the wrong place. That thread got a warning from the moderators not to bad mouth suppliers by name, for fear of legal reprisals. I fully agree with that. However, that appeared a cut and dried case, here we're not quite sure what happened yet Ivor Searle's reputation is not coming out too well. Surely we should be just as careful here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 This transaction was through the TSSC Club Shop, with the Club's chosen contractor, and involved a substantial grievance. The Club Shop has, or will provide a happy ending, which bolsters their reputation, and with the Club's backing will no doubt improve handling by their contractor (or else!). The other matter had no connection with the Club, which could have no influence on it, which was trivial, or its outcome. So it's worth the Club's while to publicise this one, but not the other. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Hum......All true but, the potential libel is still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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