Front Wheel Bearings

[Darren Groves]

A while back I remember reading about an alternative type of front wheel bearing, not the usual taper type.

Can't recall much detail other than the kit required shims and was torque up to a set figure rather the the usual nip tight then back off as we all do.

Anyone know what I'm talking about......??

[dannyb]

I believe this is what you are thinking of https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-2000-2-5PI-MK1-MK2-STAG-GT6-FRONT-HUB-BEARING-SPACER-KIT/142872114056?hash=item2143d77388:g:GlcAAMXQQUpRBZg

It's a spacer that fits between the two standard tapered bearings.

[Gully]

That's all we rotoflex owners need - shimmed front bearings as well as rear! ??

Gully

[Nick Jones]

Those those are good. Fitted them on my Vitesse and. 2.5PI. Not hard at all.

Herald / Spitfire ones are slightly different (he does them too). Price has gone up significantly though.

Don't think this is what Darren means though. There are alloy hubs available which use completely different bearings with stub axles to match. Pretty sure Canleys sell them (they certainly used to) but think they were originally developed for Caterhams and similar which also use the Triumph based suspension. Same origins as the trunnionless vertical links.

Nick

[Darren Groves]

10 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Those those are good. Fitted them on my Vitesse and. 2.5PI. Not hard at all.

Herald / Spitfire ones are slightly different (he does them too). Price has gone up significantly though.

Don't think this is what Darren means though. 

Nick

Actually that was what I was thinking of but struggling to remember exactly , thought they were a good idea last time I saw them but then completely forgot about them.

I have contacted him and he did used to do them for the Herald/Spitfire, but sales were poor so no more I’m afraid, though he does have a single pair left which I’m hoping to get from him ?

Darren

 

[NonMember]

When we did the NC500 in April, there were two cars failed to make it. My Vitesse had fuelling problems. Toby's Hurricaine, with the Caterham hubs, suffered terminal bearing failure.

Using a spacer and shims between two taper bearings was standard practice on MGs and Austin-Morris, contemporary with our cars. It works well once set but is more hassle to adjust.

[Pete Lewis]

if tapers are used then there must be some shims to set the required end float with the  tolerance variance in bearing and hub dimensions 

pete

[Nick Jones]

James (vendor) is a true Triumph nutter, CT stalwart, veteran of man a crazy long distance event and all round top bloke.....  Produces some interesting and high class parts too.

Surprised about the Herald/Spit ones not selling well, especially as I thought it had been established that they would also suit TR4 - 6 (use same bearings as Herald/Spit amazingly) - perhaps I'm wrong about that.  The TRs certainly need these spacers......

A good selection of shims is supplied with the kits along with decent instructions.  Need to buy another set for the GT6......

Nick

[Ian Foster]

Fiited on the GT6 with good results....as Nick says not hard, but you will need a dial gauge to set end float

Ian F

[rogerguzzi]

Hello All

                I have been running the same set up on Spitty for 2 years now(about 12000 miles)

I adjusted one over the winter as it had got a touch of play in it(0.002") bearing looked perfect(club shop ones)

I fitted them to stop brake pad knock back as the rattle I could hear that annoyed me!

Since doing the mod they never rattle

I did mine by feel although I have several DTI,s It may take longer but when you get within 0.002" you can feel the difference(grease seal not fitted or grease)

As an aside Velocette Venom,s and Viper,s (single cylinder motorcycles) have taper roller main bearings supporting the crank and the pre load is 0.005"(If I remember correctly!)

So I think a knats of preload probably would not hurt but aim at Zero to 0.002"

Roger

 

[Pete Lewis]

The float is tomaccomodate hub expansion from brake heat,

Theres many siezed failures due to pre load tee shirts about 

Stick to the spec seeing as triumph recommend 0.002 to 0.008"   

0.008" gives a lot of float at the wheel  , but  less than  0.00" can soon seize the outer bearing onto the stub axle , thats a ££££ to fix

Just be careful respect the bearing design.

Pete

[dougbgt6]

Roger,

That is probably the best Red Arrows picture I've ever seen!   

Doug

[Nick Jones]

My Vitesse ones are set to just eliminate any free play at the wheel.  This has worked for several 10CRs, including much Alpine action and prolonged high speed cruise on German M-ways, as well as a couple or track days.

The beauty of these is spacers is that the  bearing inner races are clamped together and to the stub axle so they don't turn on the stub axle.  This means they don't weld themselves to the stub axle or wear it out.

I would not set the bearings this tight without the spacer for the reasons Pete mentions.

Nick

[Pete Lewis]

but the the design is supposed to rotate the bearings to even out the loading and impacts   its not a modern  cassette bearing , very different 

all the wheel bearings have a clearance so the races rotate in use for that purpose 

if its working   fine ,  it just flows against the basic design , there again its only lasted 50 years,   are they  that obviously problematic  ???

pete

[Nick Jones]

Taper roller bearings in most applications  have the inner and outer tracks firmly fixed and all relative motion is via the rolling element. This is the design intent of the bearing maker. Further, most taper roller sets run with a degree of preload, at least when first installed. This ensures even contact, maximum load capacity and no scuffing.

I suspect that when conceived, the original hub design did include the centre spacers (as fitted to earlier MGB and other old stuff) but it was discovered that as they are, by bearing standards, quite lightly loaded, they can survive well without if left slack enough. Therefore they were quietly dropped as a cost cutting and simplification measure across the car industry. In effect, a production bodge.

That said, they do work pretty well and last a decent mileage when properly set. The rear axle of my A6 uses the same arrangement. I renewed one side last year at just over 300k miles. The other side is still going at > 312k. The stub axles are slightly worn though giving more play in the 12 / 6 plane. Interestingly enough Audi specify just removing free play when adjusting. I generally leave just a hint.

Nick

[Pete Lewis]

If they were not allowed to rotate you would need a drag to remove the front hubs, the rotation of the inner track on the stub  is common with any car truck with floating hub taper bearings  of this generation and supported by the marks on the back of the D washer 

It turns and it should ,

Swing Rear hubs the bearing is tight on the shaft but the outer track will rotate in the bearing housing

Pete

 

[Darren Groves]

So finally fitted these spacer after living with brake pad knock back for a fair while. Fitting them was simple and the difference to the brake pedal is really quite noticeable, the pedal feel is firmer and completely consistent every time.