JohnD Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 I come for guidance, O Wise Ones. On the Triumph Vitesse International Fb page, https://www.facebook.com/groups/355145157954928/?fref=nf it is being said that "The twist is there by design, it was introduced very early in Herald production and was maintained until the end of production." I disagree - an ARB should be flat on the floor - but I'll be glad for other's views. JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 I've not heard of it before in 30 years of Vitesse / Herald / Spitfire / GT6 ownership, so I certainly wouldn't believe it based on statements in a farceburk group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 I agree John, no twist. Some did develop a bent or twist over time, but this was a fault and caused an unwanted bias. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 The twist they are talking about maybe along the length of the bar to increase it's strength? Though I have not hear of it before. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, dave.vitesse said: The twist they are talking about maybe along the length of the bar to increase it's strength? Though I have not hear of it before. Dave Eh? J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 to have a built in twist in an ARB is complete nuts it would give diffent loads at each end depending which way they are twisted , some bright spark might pre form to suit LH or RH race tracks as John knows , but not on road cars............ unbelievable dribble its likely some suspension type torsion bars have some pre determined set but how thats controlled through the heat treatment process defies any sense true old torsion bars can develop a set due to being ..........used /worn out beyond their life cycle Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 The Fb OP claims to have a collection of thirty or so ARBs, and to have seen a Service Bulletin from 1959 saying they would be all.like that from the on. I cradled the BMIHT Archive section of they have a collection of Triumph SBs to consult. But it's Sunday. JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 The Vitesse (all) was fitted with the same ARB as the Herald. I am not aware of any intended twist or bend in the ARB. A thicker type was fitted to the later Spits. An even thicker type was sold by Triumph Tune. It's not an uncommon mod to fit the later Spit type to the earlier cars.e.g. Vitesse. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 But they should all lie flat when placed on the floor, not have one end sticking up... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 hours ago, dave.vitesse said: The Vitesse (all) was fitted with the same ARB as the Herald. I am not aware of any intended twist or bend in the ARB. A thicker type was fitted to the later Spits. An even thicker type was sold by Triumph Tune. It's not an uncommon mod to fit the later Spit type to the earlier cars.e.g. Vitesse. Dave Information I have is that the only time to fit the thicker later bar to a Vitesse/Herald is if converting to swing spring as it can lead to oversteering. Regards Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) the old 5/8 bar 207093 is no longer available most suppliers offer the 7/8" bar 217033 as the only available supersession to to use across the range on my Vit6 i had a courier rear spring and the 7/8" ARB and its on rails , most under steers are down to bad tyre pressure balance F &R and initial poor geometry setting by not following the static loading guidelines. Pete Edited January 7, 2019 by Pete Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 BMIHT responded with request for more detail of what I was looking for. They might have Service Bulletins from 1959, but it'll take a search, apparently! JOhn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, 68vitesse said: Information I have is that the only time to fit the thicker later bar to a Vitesse/Herald is if converting to swing spring as it can lead to oversteering. Regards Paul If you stiffen up the rear suspension or fit a camber compensator then the thicker ARB helps keep the balance between the front and rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Sorry Guys what is an ARB can we please speak non techno bable for a simple person like me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Anti Roll Bar. I prefer just the bar! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Bit confused, are we saying the thicker bar should not be fitted to a Herald/Mk1 Vitesse if it still has the standard swing axle suspension. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 If its specified for a 13/60 its going to be ok for all , The thin one bends the thick one doesnt Uprating the roll parameters must aid handling ,(left the bar out as Daves propping it up) There is a balance , we are not looking at utopian handling its a 50 year old family saloon or small sports car which has less roll to start with, the problem of orginiality is you cant buy the old one as a new one A straight 7/8 bar has to be a great improvement on a twisted 5/8 bar Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Its Good to have a mixed view of these sort of question Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Tried a thicker ARB from a swing-spring Spit on my lowered, but still fixed-spring Herald. Ruined the turn-in and made it understeer horribly. Soon swapped back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Way back when I remember a comment from Triumph that the 5/8 ARB was meant to twist as it was all part of reducing the effects of the camber change of the rear swing axle. Too long ago to remember anymore details. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 hours ago, 68vitesse said: Information I have is that the only time to fit the thicker later bar to a Vitesse/Herald is if converting to swing spring as it can lead to oversteering. Regards Paul Relying on memory, perhaps not oversteer but understeer as Nick Jones post, either way not a desirable outcome. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT6M Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 there maybe something in this really as Ive seen 100,s of the thinner bars 3 on my own cars, the others on others I worked on, plus bars that wer off all the thinner ones wer bent, all about 1/2 to 3/4 inch nin of the thicker ones ive seen wer bent Now then, them that say its no possible, then I ask ye all to go tek yours of and report back saying if its bent or not it seems so strange that all of the bars ive seen are bent lots of others have said there bent lots of pictures show there bent so wots causing the bend, defective metal, poor workmanship, poor tempering,the actuall mould bent, look at yer front springs, O|E or aftermarket, they all got a bend in em, that bend comes out whenst they been off for a wee while but the ARB dont, so I dont think its metal fatigue M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Nick Jones said: Tried a thicker ARB from a swing-spring Spit on my lowered, but still fixed-spring Herald. Ruined the turn-in and made it understeer horribly. Soon swapped back. On my herald estate, fitted with a courier (ie flat and stronger spring) plus stiff front springs, I removed the ARB altogether with very positive results. The car did a remarkable number of autosolos/autotests and 12 car rallies, so went through its paces. And Marcus, that is exactly the point. I really don't think I have ever seen a "flat" thin ARB. They are always bent, and in the same way. That surely cannot be coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 I am sure I have an ARB off on of the demo chassis somewhere, just need to find it, or remember who I sold it too... 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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