Steve P Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 05/03/2019 at 17:15, dougbgt6 said: Guppy, Nice job! Occasionally an SAH rocker cover with chamfered ends comes up on Ebay, but out of reach at £500+ . A lot of people would pay you big money for that conversion! Doug One on e bay now for those with deep pockets: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-TR5-6-Vitesse-SAH-Alloy-Rocker-Cover-Cap-and-Bolts/324047258039?hash=item4b72b8c1b7:g:Sh8AAOSwRS9eJGCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 As far as I can remember over the last 50+ years the oil pressure has always been 40 to 60 PSI on the small four and the six cylinder engines. 60 PSI all smiles and 40 PSI must do something soon. As for the oil feed, don't bother as there should be sufficient oil. If there is not then find out why. I have seen shaft wear on high mileage and or poorly maintained engines. Plus some of the repro shafts. The push rod engine top ends normally aren't that quite, so an SAH cover is another option as it will cut down on the top end noise, but destroy the wallet. Just my own experience. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Looks as though it my of had some surface deterioration {2nd photo LH side} with a quick blow over as you can see from the paint run where the vent pipe comes out. All of which is recoverable but certainly noticeable. Nice item to have but I can think of better things to spend £250 and upwards on. Good luck to those bidding. Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtRo Racing Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Johny, I would agree with you but Moss is saying just the opposite. I have posted their directions on installing their bronze sleeved rockers and rocker shaft that they have reamed out to a .002 clearance so you can see what they are saying. I believe they are backwards. If you agree I will order shims from Rimmer as they have .010 shims but I have no idea how many I will need. I also posted the newest picture after I removed the pedestal nuts, tapped them towards the inside of the valve stems, and then re-torqued them to 26 Lb Ft. There seems to be a conflict if to if you set the valve / rocker lash at .010 COLD OR HOT. Different manuals say different things. I have done them COLD. Does everyone agree? Thank you again for all your help. Cheers, Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Think it depends on the angle these rockers are operating over. If its mostly above horizontal then the instructions seem correct if theyre more like the WSM and operating mostly below horizontal the reverse will apply. Always done adjustment cold.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtRo Racing Posted January 21, 2020 Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Thanks. do you like the wear pattern or do I need to move it back towards the rocker shaft? It is up and running quite well and quite. Please Be kind enough to explain what you mean by WSM. When the valves are closed the rockers are horizontal. I need to order pushrods which are 8.11 or 8-1/8” long. Any suggestions? You are the best. Cheers, Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 WSM - Workshop Manual Have you had any work done on the engine? Thinking head or block skim to clean up face to increase compression a touch. there is a working range of angles from the horizontal for the rockers, is yours within the window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 8 hours ago, AtRo Racing said: When the valves are closed the rockers are horizontal. If the rockers are horizontal when "relaxed" (valves closed) then this is the WSM condition. I think the pattern you're seeing is fine and you shouldn't worry about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 I think NonMember is probably right. It would be nice to have a contact band on the valve stem like Fig.3 shown but if your rockers are operating around horizontal I think thats about the best youre going to get..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Robbie, Been where you are, haven't we all, you just want to get it right! My engine has been played with by the PO and there are shims under my pedestals. I haven't checked the contact area but the shim is about 1mm (40 thou) thick. If you have any sheet metal (or anything that doesn't compress) make some rough shims so you can do a trial to see the difference before you buy anything. The rule is the rockers should be horizontal. However if the parts haven't been machined correctly then as most things on old vehicles it's going to be a compromise. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtRo Racing Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Thank you everyone for your thoughts in this matter. I am assuming that you check to see if the rocker is in the horizontal position with the rocker arm at its highest position. Am I correct? Would someone here please tell me what “WSM” stands fir or means? Also what are the specs for the “working range of angles from the horizontal“ for the rockers, and how do I measure them? I do not know what has been done to the engine as I am the second owner. All I know is that the car was raced at the Pikes Peak Hillclimb. This has been confirmed by many of the Pikes Peak Hillclimb competitors that I met three years ago at the Mt. Washington, New Hampshire “Climb To The Clouds” Hillclimb Race. The engine is very high compression and turns over rather slowly before it starts. Need to install a gear reduction hi torque starter before spring. Took it for a short ride last night and it ran like a scared moggie. You guys are the best and have been extremely helpful. Cheers, Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 As Scrapman said previously WSM is workshop manual which you can download free. For the angle of the rocker look at the diagram I posted which shows the valve closed ie. the rocker's valve side at its highest position as if youre going to check the valve clearance. Does yours look at roughly the same angle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 Robbie To be correct if you draw a line from the centres of the rocker shaft and the tip of the rocker arm (easy with a roller rocker) then this should be 90 degrees to the valve stem when the rocker is half way through its stroke. Adjust the rocker arm to touch the valve so no clearance and measure the stroke of the valve through the cycle and then halve it. If you google rocker arm geometry there are various videos to explain why and how much better than I can. All well and good if you have adjustable pushrods but ideally you want to have the correct geometry and the rocker tip in the centre of the valve stem throughout its cycle. I don't know which one is more important but as you can only realistically adjust the pedestal height (unless you want to pay a lot of money for adjustable pushrods and pedestal shims) go for shims first and see how that alters the strike pattern on the valve head. If you get a more central pattern then check the geometry to see if is looks acceptable. Have fun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtRo Racing Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 A huge thank you do all of you. I understand completely and need to order shims from RIMMER. Amazing that Moss USA does not have any. As I do have a few pushrods that are slightly bent I believe that I will be ordering adjustable pushrods once I get the rear of the head sorted. Cheers, Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 So you think the rockers are in the wrong position? Please let us know how it the contact pattern turns out with the shims..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtRo Racing Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 The pattern is still like the above. I have ordered shims from RIMMER and when they come in I will measure everything. The rockers are in their correct positions as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 There were a number of different lengths push rods used over the production time, these were relative to the period of the engine and head used. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 bent push rods normally are due to the springs bottoming out ,, so if high cam lift what tappet clearance is specified generally quite larger than the std.. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtRo Racing Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 I have no idea what cam is in the car except that the power comes on from 3200-4000 rpms. Perhaps a Fast Road Cam or the next one up. When I am cruising in overdrive on the parkways at 3200 Rpms the car really pulls when ai want to pass. Parts are ordered so I will post once they have arrived and I have had time to install the shims.p which should be in the next week or so. Thanks again to all of you. Cheers, Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 ️ 1 On 21/01/2020 at 19:52, dave.vitesse said: As far as I can remember over the last 50+ years the oil pressure has always been 40 to 60 PSI on the small four and the six cylinder engines. 60 PSI all smiles and 40 PSI must do something soon. SNIP....... Hi Dave, At what temperature & RPM are you talking about? What "weight" oil? Thanks, Iain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Same topic but light tangent in your original photos of the rocker shaft it shows an allen headed cap screw as the locating and sealing screw on the rear pedestal, this I assume is a retro fit as the originals were I believe a phillips headed countersunk screw/bolt seating and sealing in a countersunk hole in the pedestal. Some will think me over the top but Triumph used a countersunk screw for a reason to maximise the seal area and get the screw head reasonably level with the pedestal. Yes I agree the bottom edge of the cap screw could/should cut its own seal in the soft pedestal metal, and limit any leakage. Late 70's a 3yr old 2500TC the rocker shaft seized because that screw came out and fortunately sat against a push rod shaft. car ran like a pig the rockers had seized on the shaft. Pic of correct screw attached. Sorry have to go out so must stop now, hope info useful. Regards Peter T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtRo Racing Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 Make sure that the rocker shaft to pedestal locking screw is not to long. If it sticks past the end of the threads in the pedestal you will be restricting the flow of oil to the rockers. When I took mine apart the rocker and the rocker shaft and rockers were toast from lack of oil. After removing all the rockers I cut the rocker shaft just past where the screw went in only to find the locking screw to be sticking all the way down to the shaft. Therefor there was very little oil making it to the shaft and rockers. The DPO must have done this. I used a socket ahead Cap Screw and cut it off so that it just went past the threads in the rocker shaft by an 1/8”. I then used locktite on the screw so it can not back out. Cheers, Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 You obviously know what your doing and thinking of the consequences. I just noticed the non std screw/bolt and with my shaft failure eons ago was concerned oil could leak and not getting up the shaft your’ve made me think and I’ll check the length of an original countersunk bolt set up on my 68 Vitesse that I know is original having owned it 50 years in both UK and OZ. You never know what Triumph did. Peter T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 ive seen a few of the screws adrift , luckily they do seem to lodge ready for recovery as for pressures the All WSM only state 40-60 at 2000 rpm there is no qualifying temp or oil spec other than normal running temp or oil as specified I imaging the production test beds had a basic range to achieve with a working tolerance , then engines were often run on town gas not petrol many run back to back so one as a brake/load then reverse the drive i remember often carb floats arrived flattened due to a gas backfire which would show up on a test rig but wont start on the end of line . pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtRo Racing Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 8 hours ago, Peter Truman said: You obviously know what your doing and thinking of the consequences. I just noticed the non std screw/bolt and with my shaft failure eons ago was concerned oil could leak and not getting up the shaft your’ve made me think and I’ll check the length of an original countersunk bolt set up on my 68 Vitesse that I know is original having owned it 50 years in both UK and OZ. You never know what Triumph did. Peter T. Peter, The reason I used High Strength Red Locktite on the screw that holds the rocker shaft to the pedestal is that ai am not worried about removing the rockers. If they needs to be replaced then the shaft will need to be replaced also. Therefor, for me anyway, it is more important for the screw to stay in place than it is for me to ever have to remove it. I also feel that with a Socket Head Cap Screw you can torque it better than with a Phillips Flat Head Machine Screw that is very soft and easy to strip. Just my two cents. Cheers, Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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