Online Courier

[JohnD]

Deleted

[Guest]

Hello John,

One of the classic car clubs I belong to, has the option for its members to either receive h/copy, online or both - the choice is made on joining as a member.

A couple of other clubs I am with only do h/copy - ironically, one of these clubs would be better placed with having an online version as their h/copy is not great. Conversely, the other club magazine is of excellent quality.

I do see your point and understand the rationale.

That said, many members be it classic vehicles or other interests really do like having a h/copy version; something they can pick-up / put-down as and when required - I have to say I am a big fan of h/copy newsletters and magazines etc.

I would also add that most online publications are best viewed on a laptop rather than smaller items of IT and this is another contributing factor towards the h/copy choice.

If of course it was purely down to money, then the online choice has to win every time, however not everything is about money.

Regards.

John. 

 

[Pete Lewis]

The £3.50  value placed on the courier is vat exempt, so the club saves a lot of vat by producing a   £3.50  mag with a  big saving passed on to membership,   dump the courier and your subs will go up 

Pete

[Badwolf]

Pete - Can you explain the maths on that please. Not sure how having a vat free magazine keeps the membership subs down. Probably obvious but can't see it myself.

[Pete Lewis]

Roughly  each mag  sent out is valued at  £ 3.50  multiply by around 4500 members  comes to £15750 vat free expenditure or what ever you what to call it

As the mag cost significantly less than that its a tax win win for the club finances  makes a big gain over a small outlay

Many clubs do exactly the same .

Pete

 

[Blitz]

Makes more sense now you know the figures arnt supposed to add up 😆

[Badwolf]

Sorry... being thick here. Can't see how the printed Courier saves the club in tax. The best tax relief would only be a percentage of the cost either in production or perceived retail value, paid through subs. Even if the Courier didn't 'sell' a single copy there would only be tax relief as a percentage of the production costs paid. This is something I have never understood about companies that fail because they can't pay their tax bill. Tax is only charged on profit as a percentage, so where did the profit go??

[Pete Lewis]

All this really needs to go via the gen sec 

Let them explain the pro's and cons 

I just know from my days on com it offsets a load of vat.

Im not going to say the actual print costs but its quite  small

There is a thought the paid up member gets the published  mag   before it goes on line .

John   maybe  you should have laid  question for  the AGM  in april

If you drop a line of thoughts  to  gen sec  it will get answered

It may not get picked up on here

Pete

 

[Gully]

30 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

Sorry... being thick here. Can't see how the printed Courier saves the club in tax. The best tax relief would only be a percentage of the cost either in production or perceived retail value, paid through subs. Even if the Courier didn't 'sell' a single copy there would only be tax relief as a percentage of the production costs paid. This is something I have never understood about companies that fail because they can't pay their tax bill. Tax is only charged on profit as a percentage, so where did the profit go??

The benefit comes from the difference between input and output tax amounts - one based on costs, the other the perceived sale price - and the VAT status of a membership magazine.

Gully

[Adrian]

I can’t and won’t comment on people’s views regarding the economic’s of one form of publication over another. All I will say is I’d prefer online for two reasons. 

1. Online content is searchable much like the historic cds

2. Saves paper and postage for environmental reasons.

I have a professional magazine which I rarely take out of the wrapper as the articles are academic rather than practical. But that’s just my view. As far as I’m concerned the courier should be optional hard copy as the forum is by far the best platform the club offers!

[Pete Lewis]

This is all fine but views and ideas made on forum wont neccessarily get picked up by the club COM directors

If you  want to change the way the club works or is planned then there is a route we all have to take 

If you want this to be discussed formally  ,

Pete

its nothing to do with me I just answer anything daft or usefull. Depending on the strength of the tea

Pete

 

 

 

[Badwolf]

Sorry if I opened a can of worms but I didn't understand the maths regarding the savings from tax and still don't. Tax (of whatever kind) is only a percentage of running costs etc and doesn't cover these running costs unless it triggers another form of relief.  I agree with JohnD "I was given that argument (The VAT one) then, and as now, I cannot see why A/ it works, but have to accept the accountants view or B/ why it prevents a digital version".  I would just like to understand the figures behind these claims, not for any ulterior motive other than interest as to how it works exactly.  I do appreciate that sales of newspapers and magazines are VAT free but electronic versions (kindle etc) are not. So to sell a copy of The Courier hardcopy would be tax free but if the magazine were included in the cost of membership does that make the entire membership fee VAT free/reduced? Of course, if the membership subs only covered the purchase of 'The Courier' for 12 months that explains the saving in VAT!!

[Blitz]

Interesting subject the tax and all however as a younger ish member who uses forums and face book groups a lot, I am concerned at the comments of some officials been technophobes and these posts won’t be seen by them?

To me this forum and the Facebook group are key to me staying with the club. I’m no mechanic and post quite a lot. Online content is the present and the future, if the club fails in these areas it will die in my opinion. This forum should be monitored by the committee as a matter of course and acted upon. 

I love the paper copy of the currier but a fully searchable on line back catalogue should be available to make these articles more valuable to current and future members. 

[poppyman]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

   That is why I say 'certain officials'!   Others grasp the Torch of Progress!

John

Why should people be forced into something they dont want to do? It seem's things are working well as they are.

Tony.

[Pete Lewis]

calm down chaps  the suns out get some driving in !!

Pete

[Blitz]

To answer John's question. Yes I am aware the back catalogue is available on line and the future plans for the search facilities. Obviously only some people are technophobes and yes peeps do this in their own time. I was simply expressing my opinion on future direction without I hope sagging anyone off.  I also said I like the current paper copy too. 

[Badwolf]

I am very, very sad to see what has become of this thread. I really expect better of TSSC members and feel that for the sake of the forum and the club, Kevin should moderate it. What must casual readers think of this childishness?

(NB This comment was originally posted in response to posts which have been deleted)

[poppyman]

1 minute ago, Badwolf said:

I am very, very sad to see what has become of this thread. I really expect better of TSSC members and feel that for the sake of the forum and the club, Kevin should moderate it. What must casual readers think of this childishness?

Badwolf, i quite agree with you our posts just crossed.

Tony.

[KevinR]

There are several posts in this thread that I will delete later if the original posters don’t delete them themselves.  

Pleas moderate your own postings before I am forced to take action

[Pete Lewis]

 Kevin  good move .

there have been a couple of management issues the past forums have got deeply involved in and it doesnt work 

the Com run the ship  . any change needs progressing with them and nurturing to a successful development 

this takes time , and effort 

pete

[Adrian]

Well done Kevin. This is the first thread I’ve seen that has plunged to a base level, thankfully not the norm. Having a difference of opinion doesn’t make either side right or wrong but as most people tried to do was to get further information/explanation as to why.

Lets all take a deep breath and remember what a great club it is and how friendly and respectful we all are/should be.

now to think of how to change the subject......

Adrian

[poppyman]

I am glad this has been sorted, but i do think people should not be rude in the first place. I am not rude to anyone and i thank others for any help given   Now as Adrian says, lets change the subject......... How about "brexit"........?   Only joking... Honest  

Tony. 

[Badwolf]

22 minutes ago, poppyman said:

I am glad this has been sorted, but i do think people should not be rude in the first place. I am not rude to anyone and i thank others for any help given   Now as Adrian says, lets change the subject......... How about "brexit"........?   Only joking... Honest  

Tony. 

KevinR .....  He has used the 'B' word.  Strike him from the records.... immediately...... and never let him darken our doors again!!!! 🤣😅🤬

[Pete Lewis]

Changing the subject I would have been  out for a drive but fell asleep in between the sun ,rain sun rain ,hail sun rain sun today 

What's youre day been like 

Pete

[Badwolf]

Just the same, currently heaving down with rain & hail. Good excuse to stay indoors and not go out to work on the car bonnet in my new 'workshop' (shed).