68vitesse Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIUMPH-VITESSE-J-TYPE-OVERDRIVE-GEARBOX-CONVERSION-KIT/174197426717?hash=item288ef9ca1d:g:HjEAAOSw5r9eTspJ Text single rail picture three rail, to fit a Vitesse just swop bell housing, to think I once bought one of these combinations for about thirty pounds. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 yes that price and it can still be completely knackered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted March 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 Had a quick look on Rimmers the exchange surcharge comes to more than the selling price of these units. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 Although the text says "single rail" and "from 1850 Dolly", the input shaft is a coarse spline one and the bell housing is a Vitesse one. It's only the O/D that came from a Dolomite and it probably has the weak mainshaft tip bearing. Mind you, I also remember the days when that price bought you a fully reconditioned and guaranteed one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted March 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 The early Dolomite 1850 used the Vitesse/GT6 gearbox with a J type overdrive changing to the single rail after a couple of years. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 if for £750 they cant tell single rail from a 3 rail what can you say pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 3, 2020 Report Share Posted March 3, 2020 Probably an early 1850 box with a Vitesse bell housing. Good starting point but will almost certainly (unless it’s been updated at some point in the past) have the 1/2” mainshaft tip and will almost certainly be at least a little bit knackered. 6 cylinder boxes are a nightmare..... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 Going off on a related tangent.... I have a single rail Dolly 1850 box (well actually a gearbox with teeth missing off the layshaft and a new gear set) how easy is it to fit all the innards to a 3 rail box so I can fit it to the back of my Vitesse engine. I can find selectors etc to fit and I have some 3 rail casings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 37 minutes ago, thescrapman said: Going off on a related tangent.... I have a single rail Dolly 1850 box (well actually a gearbox with teeth missing off the layshaft and a new gear set) how easy is it to fit all the innards to a 3 rail box so I can fit it to the back of my Vitesse engine. I can find selectors etc to fit and I have some 3 rail casings Colin, give me a bell. Pete, our local cog-man, has done a few for people. But he doesn't do computers. However, he is always happy to talk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted March 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 In my Vitesse the gearbox has a fine input shaft, single rail type, large main shaft tip and three rail gear change and a J type overdrive. Don't know who put it together as came with a failed restoration I bought at Stoneleigh a few years ago, for the clutch I just used the clutch plate from a single rail Dolomite 1850. It shed some teeth from third gear on the cluster the other year Mike Papworth supplied the parts and advice for the rebuild, I found him a very helpful and knowledgeable chap. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 I believe both my Vitesse and GT6 are the same as yours, Paul. Both boxes were fitted in the early 1990s, and both sourced from either Canley or John Kipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 much of the internals look the same but have small odd differences like shaft spine sizes and tooth counts i once got a box as spares and someone had mixed up hubs and gears to make a complete mess , it was half 3rail half single rail ....needless to say it would not have worked but cost some misguided soul a lot of ££s to make up a dysfunctional box . the boX shaft centres are all the same but i belive the single rail case might be a little longer ?? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted March 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 An old Rimmers part book lists main case as 3 rail 306468 single rail RKC461 some other parts remained the same some also changed at single rail box WM1. No idea what the difference is but understand tooth profile also changed at some point. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Flinn Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 I had an Hybrid box fitted to my old Vitesse, this was 3 rail, had the Larger Mainshaft tip and J Type Over-drive, this was made up by one of the Previous Owners in the late 1980's who is still a good friend . Does anyone know when Triumph up-rated the Mainshaft Tip size and was it for the later Single rail Dolly boxes? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 yes the early dolly 1850 had a 3 rail with small tip but big synch rings (I believe these match the last GT6s units) while later ones had single rail with both big tip and rings. However Ive no idea what or when changes were done to gear teeth angles. Also all these boxes had the same poor layshaft set up which, from my experience, is the weakest point☹️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 late 3 rail dolly had a 18mm spigot mainshaft as i had one from mike papworth together with a modified 10 spline input shaft to match as said you cant mix and match 1/2 hubs or mainshafts as splines are very different unless you want a rattling fit and 1 rail has different reverse tooth count have a feeling tooth profile changed similar time to the bigger baulk rings ??? not sure Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 4, 2020 Report Share Posted March 4, 2020 I know Triumph did some strange things when they made changes in design but think in this case the number of intermediate gearboxes must have been very low as Rimmers have all GT6 and 3 rail 1850s as small tip and then single rail 1850 from approx 1974 on as large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 18 hours ago, johny said: Also all these boxes had the same poor layshaft set up which, from my experience, is the weakest point☹️ Mike Papworth rebuilt my bitza, J type for Vitesse a few years ago. I think one option, was for a longer bearing for the layshaft cluster. Don't know how much this improves it?. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 yes believe it can be bored deeper into at least one end to accept a longer needle bearing which should spread the load. Also there were more thickly case hardened shafts made up as the pattern parts available now are of unknown quality.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 have a feeling many lay spindle problems stem from a life of low /no oil, at sometime in its life span, its a low splash zone so easy to starve with over 40 years of abuse but wear and tear is an ongoing factor all the needle zones are well beyond their design life amazingly some fair well Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 hours ago, johny said: yes believe it can be bored deeper into at least one end to accept a longer needle bearing which should spread the load. Mine was worn at the rear, which is where the mod is done. I think I had this done from memory!, though the the receipt is vague. Also he fitted a SH shaft, as new ones are?/were crap apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 5, 2020 Report Share Posted March 5, 2020 7 hours ago, Pete Lewis said: have a feeling many lay spindle problems stem from a life of low /no oil, at sometime in its life span, its a low splash zone so easy to starve with over 40 years of abuse but wear and tear is an ongoing factor all the needle zones are well beyond their design life amazingly some fair well Pete I thought the layshaft would normally be submerged in oil as its well below the top up hole so be the last bearings to suffer when the level drops.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted March 7, 2020 Report Share Posted March 7, 2020 Mike Papworth did the conversions on the single rail to three rail gearboxes back in the late 1990's. They were available either through JK's establishment at 421 Aldermans Green Coventry or direct from Mike. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 We used to recover Worn/damaged shafts, in marine practice, with Metal spraying and a regrind. Does anyone offer similar now?. Getting the right depth when case hardening was always a guaranteed source of inconsistency. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 8, 2020 Report Share Posted March 8, 2020 Think metal spraying isnt easy especially on a 5/8" diameter bar. Ive seen it break away from big shafts because the process wasnt done properly. The biggest plus these days is that our gearboxes tend to do very limited mileages so even poor case hardening will last many years😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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