Tappet noise?

[daverclasper]

Hi. I have on the Vitesse what I think is normal/usual tappet noise at idle, though what sounds like it could be louder tappet noise as the as the car is driven after about 1500 rpm (noticed it about 500 miles ago and doesn't seem to have got worse). Can't identify? the louder noise, if I increase the revs in nuetral. Any thoughts if this could be too large valve clearances?, please.

Also I fitted a new rocker shaft (cheap and maybe not good?) about 2000 miles ago. If this is wearing, would valve clearance increase?.

Thanks, Dave 

Edited August 8, 2020 by daverclasper

[Pete Lewis]

its rocker cover off and use an old set of feelers while its idling  (as of  twiddle day )   

poke feeler in gap does it quieten it 

Dave,  i dont remember   a full set of rockers or just the shaft 

worn cam bearings can make iregular tappet noises but lets not go there   its too hot !!

 

Pete

[daverclasper]

Thanks Pete. I took cover off shortly after noise started and checked and adjusted valves when cold (2 were a little large/2 a bit tight). Have some pad indents on a few rockers, though allowed for this.

Then started her up and used my old 5 thou feeler to check for any noisy ones. Seemed ok.

It was only the shaft that was changed, as the oil scrolls/were worn away at front of shaft and no oil coming out of the top rocker holes in this area.

Folk talk of worn shafts/rockers making noise when worn, though mine seemed the same after new shaft (always been a very quite engine, until now). Oil is coming out of rocker tops (apart from one, no 5?) currently.

Hoping, it's not cam related myself!.

Dave 

Edited August 8, 2020 by daverclasper

[Pete Lewis]

if no5 is dry that will have an input to noises 

do look closely at the valve springs is one broken ,  inner or outer .

pete

[daverclasper]

Cheers Pete. Also maybe I wasn't clear earlier. If I rev engine higher in nuetral with the bonnet up, then I don't notice the louder noise, that I can hear when driving above about 1500 rpm.

Not even sure if it's coming from the engine when driving (though a feeling in my bones!). Maybe gearbox?.  Even if it is engine,could it be something else that sounds tappety?. Dizzy, pump, dynamo etc?.

Dave

 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

Don't forget the fuel pump. That's all I could hear today, chattering away even over the engine noise.

[Pete Lewis]

dizzy drive gear with too much end float does clatter 

go round the engine witha big screwdriver against engine and your ear    it locates sound 

dont get it in the fan or you need AE to get it extracted   Ouch 

Pete

[68vitesse]

Have a Mk1 2L Vitesse what I thought was tappet noise turned out to be a cracked exhaust manifold.

Regards

Paul

[Pete Lewis]

good call  , exhaust manifold leaks give a high pressure chirrup 

pete

[daverclasper]

Cheers. Things to look into.  Any tips on how to check for exhaust manifold leak (was it the leak causing noise, or movement, please Paul?).

Dave

[Pete Lewis]

the exhaust pressure will make a sharp chirrup  not from any movement but from expanding exhaust gasses being forced out of a split or blown gasket gap that may not be obvious

the 3 stud triangle down pipe  flange is a good suspect 

Pete

[68vitesse]

1 hour ago, daverclasper said:

Cheers. Things to look into.  Any tips on how to check for exhaust manifold leak (was it the leak causing noise, or movement, please Paul?).

Dave

No real tips but the crack was obvious when I looked, never been impressed with the repro gaskets, to thin and not reinforced like originals. The Mk1 Vitesse manifold is more prone to cracking than Mk2 and have had more than one crack usually the leg to one or six.

Regards

Paul

 

[daverclasper]

2 hours ago, 68vitesse said:

No real tips

Thanks. Maybe this is a first for "there is such a thing as a daft question" , Could the exhaust be blocked off (maybe not fully, as compression may blow the system?) and soapy water sprayed around the manifold to see if any bubbles occur (like checking for gas leaks) whilst turning engine over on starter?.

Cheers, Dave

Edited August 9, 2020 by daverclasper

[daverclasper]

Was that such a daft idea then?.☺️

[Colin Lindsay]

4 minutes ago, daverclasper said:

Was that such a daft idea then?.☺️

Well, as no-one else has commented...   just start the engine and test it that way; cranking over on the starter won't get enough pressure to really show any leaks. It may also require heat to expand the metal and allow any gas to escape; but by the time it's hot enough to expand then spraying soapy water on it won't really identify any problem area. If you suspect it's the manifold then it'll take a lot of careful inspection for marks to identify the actual problem area. 

You could maybe - and this is just me wondering out loud - run the engine until warm then block the exhaust temporarily whilst watching the manifold closely for escaping gases or increased noise, but don't block it for so long that it stalls. Don't use anything that may catch fire!

I broke a cast manifold in two bits on the way home from a show at Stirling in the early 2000s, it was unfixable so I had to replace it with a tubular manifold. 

[daverclasper]

46 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Well, as no-one else has commented...

I'm forever umble, where's me cap then, to give a good dof 😄.

Thanks Colin. It is looking at a simple first maybe, (clutching at straws?). Exhaust did take a hit a few months ago, so maybe manifold disturbed, though not making noise then. Live in hope (have spare manifold), rather than cam related (especially block bearing surface).  

Edited August 11, 2020 by daverclasper

[Iain T]

Dave,

I was re-torqueing my head after an engine rebuild and noticed when rotating some of the rocker arms were a bit notchy and I had like you a bit too much tappet noise. I researched replacing the shaft and arms but then found TRGB do a refurbished complete bushed rocker shaft assembly for £140 + £13pp + VAT and they charge £50+VAT refundable exchange. Compared to buying all the parts and doing it myself this seemed a good buy, a five nut change over! The assembly arrived the next day and was as per spec. I have just fitted it today including checking the rocker arm strike pattern on the valve stem and all appears ok. The rockers are far less noisy and although I haven't taken the car for a test run the fix seems to be fine.

For me money well spent!

Iain

[daverclasper]

Thanks Iain.  Will bear that in mind.  It's looks like the exhaust manifold gasket has failed in a couple of areas, so hoping it's that making the noise.

Cheers, Dave

[daverclasper]

Hi. Have fitted new manifold and manifold to exhaust pipe gaskets and no different.

Iain.  Was it worn rocker pads, making the valve clearance difficult to set, that was making the noise on yours, do you know please?.

Cheers, Dave

 

[Pete Lewis]

does it make any noise with the rocker cover removed ???

you have seen how to use an old feeler on twiddle day does this trick quieten things ???

Pete

[daverclasper]

Hi Pete.  I haven't yet checked for a broken spring as you previously mentioned, so will do that.

I originally checked out the tappets with the old feeler, engine running and made no difference. I can check again.

The thing is, the tappet noise at idle is to me fairly quite and usual for the car.  The tappety noise that sounds more recent is when accelerating. I struggle to hear it when cruising, though more road noise may mask it?.

I can't hear it if I increase the revs, while in nuetral.

I have gone around the engine with a stethoscope and can't hear anything drastic.

Cheers, Dave 

 

[KevinR]

28 minutes ago, daverclasper said:

The tappety noise that sounds more recent is when accelerating. I struggle to hear it when cruising, though more road noise may mask it?.

I can't hear it if I increase the revs, while in nuetral.

 

Are you confident that its not "Pinking" !

[Pete Lewis]

and do you use 97+ fuel  or the lower grade ???

pete

[Iain T]

Dave, my shaft to rocker arms were worn hence the rattle, the arm tips were fine. I thought it may have been because I replaced the camshaft and had perhaps too much clearance in the block bearing surface but replacing the whole shaft assembly seems to have done the trick. Well it's quiter than before and it doesn't squeak anymore. I have slightly more clearance than standard so it's never going to be whisper quiet but then tappets never should!

Iain

[Iain T]

Reading Kevin and Pete's posts it does sound like pinking may be your problem. My tappets were noisy at tickover and just got noisier with more revs.

Iain