Herald 13/60 Resto + Auto Conversion

[PeteH]

I`m using "bilthammer" products currently. Seems to have good "reviews"?. It`s all the way through the Chassis, via some holes drilled for the job and then plugged with nitrile plugs from E-Bay.

Pete

[Paul H]

4 minutes ago, PeteH said:

I`m using "bilthammer" products currently. Seems to have good "reviews"?. It`s all the way through the Chassis, via some holes drilled for the job and then plugged with nitrile plugs from E-Bay.

Pete

Another vote for Bilthamber 

Paul

[Badwolf]

I am using Bilthamber products too.

[RogerH]

Hi Rich,

regarding small 'iffy' areas like in the heater box it is often better to cut out a bigger area as the welding is more controlled.

 

Roger

[Colin Lindsay]

12 hours ago, Richeee said:

 

Question.  The A posts on the Bulkhead have been dipped with the rest, and so now have no internal protection.    On the chassis etc my protection of choice is waxoyl.  But in the A posts and other areas think something that dry's out would be suitable.   What do you guys suggest would be suitable and how to apply.

Love the welding clamps.....

To fully rustproof the bulkhead, while it's off the chassis, turn it onto its' side and pour a good rust killer followed by anti-rust paint in through the holes in the A post, or other areas. Turn it in whichever direction you need the paint to flow, but it'll get into all the areas that a spray gun never will. Repeat for the other side. I think if you turn it upside down it will even flow up inside the screen pillars, but I've never been able to confirm that.

[Pete Lewis]

we just used a wand and sprayed waxoyl till  it ouzed from anywhere im sure it went right to the screen surround 

replacing the floor was not the best jigsaw of welding but it worked  there was no next time but repair sections are better available than when we made this lot into a finished job

 

[Richeee]

Thanks for the replies , will investigate the Bilt-Hamber range.   Never used before, normally waxoyl but inside the car wanted something that might dry better.

It was back to the tub today.   Replaced the offside treadplate .

Then had to patch a few holes in the front flange , and the front seat mountings all seemed cracked.

Now have both treadplates and front flange repaired. 

Moving backwards the next job will be the seat belt fixings.

It seems that the plates bolted on the back are only welded on the side and not the top.    So dirt and dampness can get behind and rot out.  Next job will be to cut of the plates and nuts, repair the body and then weld the plates and nuts back on.   This will have to wait till next week now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Badwolf]

Waxoyl was the 'go to' product many years ago and is still favoured by many, although, in my view, it is no longer as good as it used to be when I first used it over 40 years ago when it was marketed by Finnegan's. The range of products by Dinitrol are favoured by many, so worth doing a search on here to get more research data. We all have our favourites so worth compiling some sort of short list.

[PeteH]

I still have the "remains" of a 40 year old GALLON (not 5litre) can of original Finnegans waxoyl. It goes in the "air" gun and liberally sprayed under the Camper van, and the little P107.👍 Thinned with white spirit, it get used for allsorts of things, Gate hinges, bolts, Etc:. I went for the Bilthammer for the 13/60 chassis on the basis that it had a better "creep" effect (allegedly) than it`s rivals?. So whoever get`s to do the next refurb; will be able to confirm if that was true?.😂 cos it sure as hell is unlikely to be me!.😁

Pete

[Clive]

In tests Dynax S50 came out top for cavity protection, thin so it creeps in seams everywhere. I had bought some Dinitrol already, again super thin and in the tests was not far behind the S50. Used with a compressor, at about 100psi, I was blowing it into the chassis with an underseal type gun with felxi lance, and the vapour was coming out at the far end. I blew it in from all angles, and was happy that the chassis will not rot out in my lifetime.

I don't think any of the rust protectors actually dry out completely. I have used another Dinitrol product, a hard wax, in teh wheel arches and other areas subjected to abrasion from stone and rain on the road. That gives a hard finish, not as hard as say a candle, but much harder than waxoil. 32K on my car, and the arches still don't require a recoat.

 

[RogerH]

A few years back I had to cut into a sill on a TR4A and found that the Waxoyl that I applied during restoration and re-coated every two  years had

come off the metal in sheets and the underlying metal was rusty.

I now use Dinitol 3125 (also available in clear as #1000).  This stays put.

 

Roger

[Richeee]

Well asking about cavity wax , certainly had a few different replies.   Seems we all have our favourites.    Thankyou for replying.

Over the last couple of days have repaired the front seat belt fittings by cutting off the back plate and nut. Cutting out the rot and roughly welding in a patch and refitting the plate and nut.

Then had to repair the mounting above by fitting a plate under and and welding it in place and drilling new mounting hole.

Next a tricky one for me and my messy lumpy welding. 

On the floor plan there's a kidney shaped moulding and drain hole just before the front axle.   This was extremely lacey.   Cut it out and tried to replicate as best I could.  Half way through I nearly gave up because my panel was rubbish, and my welding was real lumpy, But the grinder came in useful and its only the MOT man and anybody i run over that will see it so carried on.

Now got to pay attention to the rear inner and outer wheel arch and wings.   Where the inner wheel arch meets the floor its a bit flakey, and the inner wing is holed.   Also the wing return flanges are very holed. The actual external wing faces are OK.    So a bit of a dilemma.   I am minded to remove and replace the rear wings, and replace the inner and outer arch's.  Trying to eradicate all holes and rust.  But I don't Know.   With my welding skills, hmm and I only want the bare minimum of filler to smooth , reckon I might make a mess unless I use new panels.   Decisions , Decisions,

Anyway, thats it for today.

 

To be Continued.

 

[Bordfunker]

The wing to wheel arch flanges on the rear of my Herald were in a similar state, rough around the edges, but with 95% of the panel in good nick.

I ended up replacing the edges in small sections, and replacing the rear wing around the arch only, as I could bring myself to trash the otherwise good wing.

Karl

[Josef]

I would avoid cutting any whole panel out unless you have absolutely no other option. Especially in this particular case as the top seam on Herald rear wings is going to be a pain to get access to plug weld. From your photos it looks like you mostly will have to replace the flanges, and don’t have any damage to the face of the wing? Replacing the flanges should be relatively simple in that case and not require you to weld in any really visible areas. The inner wheel arches will  be trickier, you may find you need to cut out a section of outer wing to give yourself enough access, but again from the photos looks like that could be a very small section and let you minimise any welding of visible surfaces. 

[Clive]

Unless things have changed, whole rear wings are (were) an issue as te top edge was straight, rather than curved as per original. Unless you find NOS stuff, but I haven't seen any for years. 

I would use repair panels. Great care needed to avoid distortion, but that applies to a whole panel too. 

[Works Spitfires]

1 hour ago, clive said:

Unless things have changed, whole rear wings are (were) an issue as te top edge was straight, rather than curved as per original. Unless you find NOS stuff, but I haven't seen any for years. 

I would use repair panels. Great care needed to avoid distortion, but that applies to a whole panel too. 

Ours were curved along the top as original. We had NOS Stanpart wings to drop onto the tooling (fitted like a glove) to show anyone who questioned this. However there was a cheaper 'flat' hand made wing available throughout the trade which meant that very slow turnover on our part pressed wings didn't justify another run.

There was only about £30-50 in it depending on your chosen retailer, but most chose the cheaper option, pity.

[Clive]

9 minutes ago, Works Spitfires said:

Ours were curved along the top as original. We had NOS Stanpart wings to drop onto the tooling (fitted like a glove) to show anyone who questioned this. However there was a cheaper 'flat' hand made wing available throughout the trade which meant that very slow turnover on our part pressed wings didn't justify another run.

There was only about £30-50 in it depending on your chosen retailer, but most chose the cheaper option, pity.

Usual story then.

People moan about quality, but equally (almost) nobody wants to pay the extra for a quality part. 

It must make you tear your hair out.

[Works Spitfires]

1 hour ago, clive said:

 

It must make you tear your hair out.

I have to be careful there aint much left

[Richeee]

Boy. Doesn't time fly.     June the 22nd for last post on this thread from myself.    Must admit though that have been on holiday to Northumberland and over the border to Duns to visit the Jim Clark Museum.    Excellent Museum and Duns was a lovely place.    Nearly thought about emigrating there.         But with my views I would only be allowed a day pass.

Just a quick update whilst the boss's are not looking.   Will do a fuller update when I've had a couple of drinks and feel more inclined to show off some of my terrible metal work skills.    But have a question re the rear wing fitting.

I have been busy however ignoring all the advice of my betters, in the comments above  and set to with a grinder.  

Whilst on Holiday I ordered some panels. 

As it turns out two panels from same supplier with same number are not the same.  And not as the Triumph spare parts catalogue.  See The two outer wheel arch panels below.       Need to magically morph into 1.

One is from Fitchett's via the club and one is from Rimmers.   One has 2 flanges and the other has 1 flange to meet the outer wing,   ( Or it will when i have hit it with a big hammer)  and a flange to lap over the inner arch.   One has the full extension down to the boot floor. 1 does not.   

Unfortunately I can live with the above.   I will make it  fit and again it will only be seen by myself and the Mot man.    

The question is on the rear wing.   Yes as per above its straight but with a little pushing etc Have managed to curve into shape.   The problem is below where it meets the rear light .

Its basically not tall enough by 10mm.    Fits in all other respects.   This wing is from Paddock's but probably all made in 1 place.   (The picture above is upside down as have the tub inverted on trestles.)   I Have trimmed the panel as it would not fit under the bottom of the light box by the tube for the over rider.    Question is with the wing now 10mm out of alignment with the light box will the rear and quarter valances fit ok ?    Or should i alter the light box to suit.   To keep all level. ? 

 

At this stage i'm tempted to leave as is , and not fully weld in this area until I acquire some new valances and do a mock up.

To be continued.

 

 

 

 

 

[Richeee]

Bit more acheieved today.    Just wish my skills were better. But none the less did get somewhere.

Had previously welded in new inner rear arch.

Had managed to trial fit the rear outer arch to the wing.    Did not fit too well.    Quite a bit of brute force and ignorance.

Finally got it welded to the rear wing.   Badly.    Will needs lots of dressing and seam sealer.

Next re trial fitted the rear wing with its attached outer arch to see if it still seemed to meet the inner arch. Had two of the outer arch panels as described before. The rimmers one seemed eaisier for myself and laps over the inner. This was marked up and cut to reduce the amount of overlap.

Finally i removed again prepared all the eges  ground off old the paint and replaced with weld through primer. 

Punching and drilling holes for plug welds.

Next time try to weld into place.   

That will be a bit tense.

To be continued.

 

 

[RogerH]

Hi Rich,

 what size holes do you punch/drill.

The standard punch pliers does 3/16".  I have found this is way too small and often produces a lump of weld that is not attached to the subsurface.

I use 1/4" or even 5/16" on thick areas.

 

Roger

[Richeee]

Ahhhh.

I have used a clarke air punch joggler that makes a 3/16 hole. 4.8mm.   (Just looked it up to check.)

Where i had to drill i used a 4.5mm drill.    

Thanks for the advice. I shall be wary.    Must admit that when i was adapting the chassis for the automatic gearbox , that the first cover / fish plate i put on , i had to redrill.bigger holes.  

This the first time i have tried to plug weld an external panel on, and will be wary.

[Bordfunker]

I’ve used the Clarke air juggler/punch on my build, and as long as you crank the welding power up, it produces a very strong plug weld.

Not sure what welder you are using, mine is a Clarke 150, so I usually do plug welds at power setting 3/min, and the wire speed set to about 6.5.

This produces a very strong weld, I know because I have tested them to destruction, and it’s always the base metal sheet that fails before the weld itself.

With regards the rear wing to light cluster junction, I would be inclined to get the rear valances and do a trial fit now before you weld it all in place.

It’s a faff, but we’ll worth it as it avoids bigger issues down the road.

Karl

[Richeee]

Rear valances ordered.  Will trial fit with the light units and over riders before welding the wing on. Thanks for the advice.   Lets see how good they are? Have been Looking through discussions on here regarding fitting etc.

Ta.

[Richeee]

Hi. Thought i ordered rear valances 705883/4 from the shop but told that no longer available.    Its for a 13/60

Paddock have 902274/3

Just wondering what the difference ?     Not at home so dont have my part books near me.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Richeee
Correction on numbers