Air extraction, spraying celly

[Paul H]

Hi just waiting on delivery of a new SIP 100 litre Compressor after the 3 year old little used SGS one spewed oil everywhere . As a newbie to spraying now looking at air extraction to reduce imperfections like dust , flies etc . Any advice as to suitable equipment . I’m using a single garage to spray and can use existing windows to vent . Any advice welcome 

Paul 

Just realised I will have power issues as the compressor will be taking a lot of electricity , it’s a 3hp motor 

Paul 

 

[Clive]

Spray outside, you get a lot less crap in the paint. Just did my dolomite, painted the roof yesterday. That was under a carport, stapled polythene on the underside of the roof, still got some stuff in it. A garage will need entirely covering in polythene, stuff will be in every nook and cranny.

But you can made extractor fans using car radiator fans. They run off 12V, so a car battery and a big charger are all you need. Make a hardboard, or even (several layers thick) corrugated card to fit in a window and take the fan. If you can scrounge more, use them.

BTW I have had my sip belt drive compressor for about 10 years or so, bought off a chap who had used it to spray his kitcar. Good as gold, apart from a starter capacitor. Been very happy with it. 3hp, 50L tank. And it happily ran off a long extension lead when I did my spitfire vbefore I got my garage wired up.

[Phil C]

I sprayed my Vitesse with Celly last year and for what its worth this is what I did.

I made a timber frame/polythene booth inside my garage (Lucky to have a double but could be done in a single?)

I made it as small as possible - just big enough to hold the tub with space to spray it.

I bought a pair of spray booth filters and made a filter box to suck air through. This was connected to the booth via a Sealey air mover and hose. This positively pressurised the booth ensuring no dust/flies etc would get in through gaps and cracks. An exhaust was provided using a piece of plastic pipe to the driveway.

It worked very well as I had no problems with dust/flies etc.

[Paul H]

1 hour ago, Phil C said:

I sprayed my Vitesse with Celly last year and for what its worth this is what I did.

I made a timber frame/polythene booth inside my garage (Lucky to have a double but could be done in a single?)

I made it as small as possible - just big enough to hold the tub with space to spray it.

I bought a pair of spray booth filters and made a filter box to suck air through. This was connected to the booth via a Sealey air mover and hose. This positively pressurised the booth ensuring no dust/flies etc would get in through gaps and cracks. An exhaust was provided using a piece of plastic pipe to the driveway.

It worked very well as I had no problems with dust/flies etc.

Thanks Phil , this could work well for me . What was the spec for the Sealey air mover ?

Paul

[68vitesse]

I run a 3hp compressor, direct drive twin cylinder, from a 13amp socket in my garage, some times blows fuses on initial startup in cold weather but then ok. Was going to wire it to a 20amp. spur but prefer the flexibility of a plug and socket connection.

Regards

Paul.

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, Mathew said:

Use a 16a plug and socket , those blue ones.

Exactly! That's what I have, and it's on a dedicated circuit so that it doesn't trip anything else. It needs a special (I think it's 'class B') circuit breaker designed for motors, because a standard 16A one trips on the inrush on startup.

[Clive]

19 minutes ago, NonMember said:

Exactly! That's what I have, and it's on a dedicated circuit so that it doesn't trip anything else. It needs a special (I think it's 'class B') circuit breaker designed for motors, because a standard 16A one trips on the inrush on startup.

Class C breaker for motors, B is std. 

And yes, it needs to be on a 16A breaker, unless the compressor says a 20A supply is OK. Definately not on a 32A circuit. 

But I have had my SIP 3HP running on a 13A plug since bought, no issues. 

[68vitesse]

Still have cartridge fuses in the bungalow, all the garage circuits are fed from a 30amp cartridge fuse through an ELCB, 30A 30mA trip, to a fuse board with MCB's in the garage.

Have thought of changing it but Iike the principle, if it's not broke don't fix it.

Regards

Paul.

[Phil C]

15 hours ago, Paul H said:

What was the spec for the Sealey air mover ?

Just checked and it is actually a Clarke! 🤓

https://www.anglianpumping.com/product/air-conditioning-and-ventilation/clarke-cam300b-12-portable-ventilator-air-mover-230v-3230462?gclid=CjwKCAjw6MKXBhA5EiwANWLODCCcAcY8pUlMuoGMFZY1WaBL3GCGgI-Ew6oHnlz9r9LQKFUMnlwMxBoCGEsQAvD_BwE

I bought a 12" but I think a smaller one could have done the job. 

[Paul H]

Thanks for info - appreciated . Paul 

[Paul H]

On 07/08/2022 at 18:35, Phil C said:

I sprayed my Vitesse with Celly last year and for what its worth this is what I did.

I made a timber frame/polythene booth inside my garage (Lucky to have a double but could be done in a single?)

I made it as small as possible - just big enough to hold the tub with space to spray it.

I bought a pair of spray booth filters and made a filter box to suck air through. This was connected to the booth via a Sealey air mover and hose. This positively pressurised the booth ensuring no dust/flies etc would get in through gaps and cracks. An exhaust was provided using a piece of plastic pipe to the driveway.

It worked very well as I had no problems with dust/flies etc.

Hi Phil . With your spray booth set up does the positive pressure reduce / eliminate overspray / misting ? Also the exhaust is there a noticeable smell from the vapours and enough to annoy neighbours . I’m looking at a similar setup though based on your info looking at a 10 ins fan 

Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

not used one for years but a HVLP makes a lot ess oversray and worth investigation 

 

on the Vit6 some years ago we just stapled a diy poly tent over the car inside the garage 

wet the floor and sprayed away for not too long  it worked ok 

with a sprayers overall and face mask of the day   so suited and booted 

Pete

 

[Phil C]

Hi Paul,

I had very little overspray/misting but probably because I used a HVLP turbine spray system set at 9psi rather than anything to do with the air system. Not used one before but would recommend them over a compressor system as they are a lot quieter (probably more of a concern re neighbours?) and there is no need to worry about condensation in the air flow.

One issue I had to be very careful with was the air entry point into the booth where the air flow was at its maximum. It had to be directed away from the spraying area and also keeping the floor clean to avoid the air flow picking up dust within the booth. An extraction setup would be better but I decided ensuring air is only brought in through the filters would be too difficult (for me).

Inevitably there is a smell outside and it would depend how close your neighbours are as to whether it would be a problem. My neighbours are 250m away so not for me but I would say the current Mrs C didn't complain (and she like to comment on noise/smells coming out of my garage) so it can't have been that bad!

Hope this helps

Phil

 

[Paul H]

Hi Phil . Thanks for advice and the comments preferring extraction over pressurising as I might be able to do this . My setup is an SIP oil free compressor which is low noise 57db  with Deviblis entry level HVLP gun currently set at 28psi. I’m sure a lot of the overspray ( turns into paint dust and currently settling everywhere ) is down to my inexperience . Perhaps an obvious ? Can your air mover safely be used for extraction as well as pressurising . 
Paul 

[Paul H]

37 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

not used one for years but a HVLP makes a lot ess oversray and worth investigation 

 

on the Vit6 some years ago we just stapled a diy poly tent over the car inside the garage 

wet the floor and sprayed away for not too long  it worked ok 

with a sprayers overall and face mask of the day   so suited and booted 

Pete

 

Thanks Pete I am using an HVLP gun though some of the overspray will be down to my in experience 

Paul 

[Phil C]

2 hours ago, Paul H said:

Can your air mover safely be used for extraction as well as pressurising . 

I can't see why it wouldn't work pulling air out.

2 hours ago, Paul H said:

HVLP gun currently set at 28psi

I think you are bound to get a lot more overspray working at these higher pressures but agree experience will also have an impact.

I used a Fuji Mini Mite which provides a constant 9.5 psi so paint wastage was very much minimised. I think this type of sprayer was developed for the furniture/kitchen trade, ie to be used indoors with water based paints, where overspray needed to be kept to an absolute minimum. A mate sprayed his Healey with one, got great results and recommended it to me. 

[NonMember]

3 hours ago, Paul H said:

HVLP gun currently set at 28psi.

As Phil says, that's not particularly LP. I used to have an Apollo HVLP setup with a turbine (think vacuum cleaner exhaust) instead of a compressor. I doubt that ever achieved more than 10psi but it gave a perfectly decent finish with very little overspray.

[GrahamB]

7 hours ago, Paul H said:

Can your air mover safely be used for extraction as well as pressurising . 

I used one at work for dust extraction from a chamber.  It worked well and did not clog from the dust.

[Paul H]

18 hours ago, Phil C said:

I can't see why it wouldn't work pulling air out.

I think you are bound to get a lot more overspray working at these higher pressures but agree experience will also have an impact.

I used a Fuji Mini Mite which provides a constant 9.5 psi so paint wastage was very much minimised. I think this type of sprayer was developed for the furniture/kitchen trade, ie to be used indoors with water based paints, where overspray needed to be kept to an absolute minimum. A mate sprayed his Healey with one, got great results and recommended it to me. 

Hi Phil , re extraction didn’t know if there was an explosion risk with the blower and vapour  / motor sparks 

Paul 

[Phil C]

23 hours ago, Paul H said:

explosion risk

😳😳 didn’t really think about this!

I remember as a teenager spraying various motorbikes in a single garage with no extraction, the old compressor cutting in and out and an electric heater on full to keep things dry!

I survived 🤓

[NonMember]

23 hours ago, Paul H said:

re extraction didn’t know if there was an explosion risk with the blower and vapour  / motor sparks

Use a blower with a sealed / induction motor (most of them are, in fact) and there's no reason for there to be any sparks. If there were a spark, having extraction means that, at worst, you get a bit of an exhaust flame, because the bulk flow takes any ignition outside. For extra safety, fit a mesh filter shortly before the blower, and that will act as a flame block. In reality, though, I rather suspect that if the extraction is doing its job and keeping the spray booth atmosphere breathable, then the vapours are not sufficiently saturated to ignite.

[GrahamB]

The air movers that we used relied on a low flow of air at 50 psi to induce a large flow of air, several hundred litres per minute, at atmospheric pressure.  As such there were no moving parts to be clogged by paint or dust and definitely no sparks  to ignite any vapours.

[PeteH]

1 hour ago, GrahamB said:

no moving parts

Venturi effect? We used steam, to creat a vaccuum which allowed the (sealed) chamber to boil off sea water at low temperature for Boiler feed water. Quite effective.

Pete

[Paul H]

On 07/08/2022 at 18:35, Phil C said:

I sprayed my Vitesse with Celly last year and for what its worth this is what I did.

I made a timber frame/polythene booth inside my garage (Lucky to have a double but could be done in a single?)

I made it as small as possible - just big enough to hold the tub with space to spray it.

I bought a pair of spray booth filters and made a filter box to suck air through. This was connected to the booth via a Sealey air mover and hose. This positively pressurised the booth ensuring no dust/flies etc would get in through gaps and cracks. An exhaust was provided using a piece of plastic pipe to the driveway.

It worked very well as I had no problems with dust/flies etc.

Hi Phil , I’m in the process of building an inner spray booth like yours . Just purchased this blower 10ins fan 

I’m following your principle of positive pressure and the blower will be outside of the garage with a filter together with ducting going into the spray booth . The booth with have an extraction ducting 8 ins diameter which will be opposite the blower intake & will then go into the  garden. My questions are 

1 . should the blower intake be floor level or spray level . To me the latter makes sense .

2 my exhaust will be opposite to the intake . Is this best position ? 
Thanks 

Paul 

 

 

[ahebron]

I use the simplest set up ever.

I give the car to a car painter.
I will cut, grind, weld, grind, sand, smear filler but when it comes to the prep for painting and painting someone else can do that. Life is to short