Mounting engine on a stand

[jagnut66]

Hi, 

Hopefully just a quick question (is there such a thing with classic cars??)......

Anyway, having been distracted by Morris problems for a while, today I finally got back on the Herald.

Hoping that I had simply made a schoolboy error I took the gearbox off again to check I'd fitted the clutch driven plate the right way round. I had.

I then loosened the alternator belt, to make sure it wasn't holding the crankshaft pully in place and concealing an end float issue. It was. 

It feels about the same as my spare 1300 engine. Being this engine is already out of any car, it makes sense to rebuild this one first, fit it and then fix the 1200 engine when it's out of the car (lets hope this makes sense in practice too...).

This is where my dilemma comes in. The back plate on a Morris 1098 engine is quite thick, so when mounted on my engine stand takes the weight of the Morris engine quite easily. However, the back plate on the Triumph 1200 and 1300 engines seems quite thin by comparison.....

Will it take the weight of the triumph engine or bend under the load, if I mount it on the engine stand with it? 

Plus, if I can't mount it via the back plate, how do others on here attach their engines to a stand?

Many thanks,

Mike.

[NonMember]

I've never used an engine stand but I'd have though the back plate could come off and the rear of the block be used.

[Anglefire]

When I put mine on a stand, I took off the plate and mounted through the holes left - if that makes sense - used some long bolts and washers.

[Colin Lindsay]

I used my estate engine with the back plate, didn't know any better back in the 1990s... but the instructions, which I found many years later, were to use long threaded bar or bolts into the block itself. The arms of the stand make that very difficult; very broad so you need heavy washers, and quite long, and of course you need UNF threaded bar.

[JohnD]

I'm sure that mounted as Colin has above, choosing mount holes as close as possible to the block itself, will easily support the weight of a four cylinder engine without a bend.

A six weighs significantly more and block mounting is usually suggested, but I've had a non-Triumph engine so mounted break off the block, when struck by a falling object.    Cast iron breaks rather than bends, and it would be possible to source another back plate if really necessary, so I always mount via a back plate.      I say "A" back plate, as I've been though this process many times and  I keep an old back plate for just this purpose.    A canted saloon engine donated it, I could never have used it, so it's being put to good use rather than scrap!

Because it's a tool, not a part, I can adapt it.

The central hole has been widened, to allow the rear crank seal housing to be installed while the engine is on the stand, and certain rim bolt holes widened, so that I may use the biggest bolts that my stand will take.     And, to make sure I NEVER use it on a rebuilt engine, its painted RED!

John

[Pete Lewis]

I would agree mount on the block  you dont want a bent backplate which will destroy clutch life quite quickly 

and if the plate is removed you can check it for complete flatness

after years of geabox on/off  they do get quite distorted 

Pete

[jagnut66]

Colin's engine stand looks very much like mine, I see (in the photo) that he left the flywheel in place, so maybe this helped to prevent the backplate from distorting?

I suspect the block would be safer though, I don't want the additional cost of a new (secondhand) backplate.....

What thread size UNF bolts will I need for block mounting? (Length I can measure / work out)

Many thanks,

Mike.

[JohnD]

Er, jagnut.   In Jaguars, the flywheel may be bolted to the engine backplate, stiffening the latter, but I doubt it.    I think it might inhibit revving the engine.

 

[PeteH]

I don`t own an engine stand, only ever worked on a bench, or my trusty Workmate!. Most of those offered for the trade and hobby use appear to use a 4 point fixing?. In which case I would expect the stress to be within the cope of the Backplate? if properly didtributed. Certainly a 4 Cylinder engine. Without actually going out in the dark, and rain, how thick is a Herald backplate? I am thinking about 5/16 or 3/8".

It`s not easy to see on the Haynes stripdown photo`s, as they are a bit dark. But It looks as if there are 6 backplate mounting bolts?. Replacing 4 with longer bolts (or studs?) direct into the block would in that case take strain off the backplate?.

Pete

[DJB350Z]

The 6 pot engine seems incredibly heavy to be mounted to a frame. It's a running joke here that everything designed to fit onto this engine must weigh at least 10kg.

I'd still like a proper stand but it seems a bit of a palava to mate up with the 4 point fixing.

I've used a strong workbench and some wooden blocks to support the engine at the front and rear but the problem I have is that I can't get the sump on in this arrangement. 

[PeteH]

When I stripped the Mitsui Engine, (One SOB heavy lump), I took the head off before I removed the sump, that way it was laying flat on the bench. Turning the bu**er over single handed was something of a logistical exercise!!. Never got to re-assemble it, it was so far gone, I swapped it in for a factory recon. That made the Credit Card cry!.

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

we changed the crank for a balanced one on the 1600  with engine IN Car     and its worse than heavy to haul it into plave and get a couple of caps back on quick 

 

[ludwig113]

I've always liked this idea, someone in America built this stand, if you can weld, it looks fairly simple to fab.

[Nigel Clark]

I've fitted a couple of Triumph sixes to an engine stand in the past. I used 5/16" UNF threaded bar, straight into the holes in the rear of the block and never had a problem. The previous 2 litre engine from my GT6 is stored on a stand, mounted that way, and it's fully built up including the cylinder head. I'm sure this approach would be fine for mounting the lighter four pot motors.

Nigel

[jagnut66]

8 hours ago, Nigel Clark said:

I used 5/16" UNF threaded bar

Thanks Nigel. I had a read of the Haynes manual and couldn't see a size mentioned for these. 

Best wishes,

 Mike.

[PeteH]

Now all I have to do is search my "scrap pile" for some materials to fabricate one, A Couple of places locally let me skip dive for off cuts in the past.

Pete.