Fuel spill

[Josef]

Before playing with the mixture again, have a drive and try pulling the choke a little and seeing if the problem improves. This’ll give you an idea if a richer mix does make the issue better (after all, a richer mix is what the choke achieves!) and inform you if it’s worth adjusting the carbs again. 
Given you now need full choke to start I would suspect it is a little lean. The Triumphs I have driven have only needed full full choke when it’s really cold out. But as I think I said before, they’re all different after 50+ years alive!

[micmak]

21 hours ago, Josef said:

Before playing with the mixture again, have a drive and try pulling the choke a little and seeing if the problem improves. This’ll give you an idea if a richer mix does make the issue better (after all, a richer mix is what the choke achieves!) and inform you if it’s worth adjusting the carbs again. 
Given you now need full choke to start I would suspect it is a little lean. The Triumphs I have driven have only needed full full choke when it’s really cold out. But as I think I said before, they’re all different after 50+ years alive!

Hi Josef, Actually when I drove the car yesterday, I tried pulling out the choke a little and the stumbling DID ease off a little.  However, the car was not quite up to normal running temperature, so it wasn't as accurate a test and I would have needed.   I had planned to drive the car today, get it nice and warm, and do the choke test, but it has been lashing rain all day!   I will not take this little car out in such horrendous rain.  Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

[Peter Truman]

1 hour ago, micmak said:

   I had planned to drive the car today, get it nice and warm, and do the choke test, but it has been lashing rain all day!   I will not take this little car out in such horrendous rain.  Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

My daughter the Spitfire owner lives in a coastal holiday township of Paynesville near the VIC/NSW border on Weds the children were bused home early from the local city Bairnsdale some 15klm away because of the threat of bushfire smoke from the west, that night they were hit with a torrential downpour of over 100mm and the local river the Mitchell has risen by around 6mts so Fri no bus’s due to possible flooding of the main route where the road runs along the side of the Mitchell for around 5klm so the kids will be off school again.

what was it Henry Lawson said in his poem of Australia “Australia the land of droughts and floods” but not usually in 3 days!

[micmak]

Hi Guys, today was dry, with no rain recently.  The roads were dry and it was a nice warmish day.  I started the Vitesse.  No problem with full choke.  I went for a little drive down to the village.  I was not happy with the stumbling or hesitancy when accelerating.   I pulled out the choke a few times, and it helped a bit, but it didn’t convince me that fuel was the issue.  I came home and decided to advance the timing a little.  I just turned it until the idle increased a bit, then I slackened off the idle screws on the carbs to bring the idle back down.  I went out for a little test drive.  HOLY SHIT!!!!!    It was like driving a jet-propelled machine. It was SOO responsive.  SOO fast.  I felt like Max Verstappen!  It was like driving a totally different car!   I came home and it was still idling a little high and not as evenly as I would like.  I know it is not an EFI engine, and it will never idle a smoothly as a modern car, but I still wasn’t satisfied that the idle was as smooth as I might get.  I played with the idle screws again, and I had it idling at a comfortable level.  I walked away for a while leaving it running.  When I returned, it was nearly cutting out.  I revved it up a little and it was better, although not as good as a few minutes before.  I will continue to play with it until I reach a point where I am satisfied with the idle. But the big surprise today was the difference in the car when I advanced the timing a little.  Unbelievable!

[Pete Lewis]

just shows what can be achieved without any special anything but your ears 

thats a good learning curve  keep at it 

the idle may not hold a coin on its edge but with correct timing and mixtures /tappets set  should be a nice and steady one 

pete

[daverclasper]

2 hours ago, micmak said:

But the big surprise today was the difference in the car when I advanced the timing a little.  Unbelievable!

Great your getting there. Was this rotating the dizzy, or using the vernier gauge (if your dizzy has one?)

Edited October 8, 2023 by daverclasper

[Pete Lewis]

it will be a delco D202 or similar  no vernier .micro adjuster (normally who knows after all these years 

Pete

[micmak]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

just shows what can be achieved without any special anything but your ears 

thats a good learning curve  keep at it 

the idle may not hold a coin on its edge but with correct timing and mixtures /tappets set  should be a nice and steady one 

pete

Yeah, I am learning so much.  And enjoying it too.  It would be nice to get a coin to stand on its edge.  It is not likely to happen, but I will keep adjusting and try to improve it a little more.

[micmak]

2 hours ago, daverclasper said:

Great your getting there. Was this rotating the dizzy, or using the vernier gauge (if your dizzy has one?)

I was fully prepared to loosen the distributor, and rotate it clockwise or counter clockwise as needed, and tighten it up again. I pulled out my timing light from years ago and I was prepared to use it.  But when I went to do it, I saw the little adjustment “knob” with a little R pointing one way, and an A pointing the other way.  I turned it a little towards the A, and the vacuum advance assembly moved out slightly from the distributor, and the idle increased.  Presumably this is a fine-tuning feature to adjust the timing.  I had never seen such a thing before. 

[Pete Lewis]

if you have the later with an  A & R yes this gives fine adjustment  but the basic static really needs to be correct

and the fine tune ....does just that 

Pete

[micmak]

Went out for another little drive today.  The car started fine.  As I drove along, I did my usual little “test” which is to slip into neutral while moving, to see if the car will idle.  If it doesn’t, it is easy to go back into gear and force it to start again.  I think everyone used to do that years ago when you'd push start a car with a dead battery!!!   Anyway, it cut out during my little test.  I tried it again, and it cut out again.  I stopped in the village, and the car cut out again.  I drove home and I adjusted the idle a little to make it stay idling.  I was reasonably satisfied with it.  I left it running for a few minutes, and I revved it up a few times.  Then I noticed that it sometimes idled lower and was approaching the point where it was struggling to keep idling.  I revved it up a few times and sometimes it idled better, whereas other times, it idled too low.  Is there a trick to finding the sweet spot where it will idle nicely, and not idle too high?   Should I tinker with the fuel mix again, or even the timing, or should I leave the idle a little on the high side and learn to live with it?

[Pete Lewis]

under the air piston casting you will find a small pin witha spring this is to do a mixture test by lifting the air piston

the idea does work but its a very touchy feely thing  and needs light fingers 

the pin will contact the piston inside you lightly raise the pin to just feel it make contact  thenraise the pin a couple of mm  dont yank it up 

there are now3 possibles   you are looking for a hint of change not some radical offering

lift the pin 2mm   if the idle increases around 50 rpm for a few seconds its set too rich

if nothing happens its about right

if it falters 50rpm its set too lean

so once again its small changes and gentle fingers with hints of change 

yank it up and it will just stop , this must have air filters fitted   doing without is a total waste of time 

so its another  get the ears on ,  this works thats why the pins are there. if they have been left corrooded for years may need 

a squirt of lube to free the pin , this applies to Strombergs and SU     so go hunt the pin it may be missing on later CDSE when emision rules started to evolve

but on  HS1  HS2 HS4 CD CDS CDSE

Pete

[DanMi]

the original way to set the timing, as the front pulley only has a top dead centre mark (assuming it is like an early 4 cyl), was to fully retard the vernier then set the timing static to TDC by turning the distributer and then advance the vernier the required no of clicks, on my mk2 spit 1 click = 1 degree. That gives you a good starting point and by noting the number of clicks you will know what the timing is set to

Edited October 9, 2023 by DanMi

[micmak]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

under the air piston casting you will find a small pin witha spring this is to do a mixture test by lifting the air piston

the idea does work but its a very touchy feely thing  and needs light fingers 

the pin will contact the piston inside you lightly raise the pin to just feel it make contact  thenraise the pin a couple of mm  dont yank it up 

there are now3 possibles   you are looking for a hint of change not some radical offering

lift the pin 2mm   if the idle increases around 50 rpm for a few seconds its set too rich

if nothing happens its about right

if it falters 50rpm its set too lean

so once again its small changes and gentle fingers with hints of change 

yank it up and it will just stop , this must have air filters fitted   doing without is a total waste of time 

so its another  get the ears on ,  this works thats why the pins are there. if they have been left corrooded for years may need 

a squirt of lube to free the pin , this applies to Strombergs and SU     so go hunt the pin it may be missing on later CDSE when emision rules started to evolve

but on  HS1  HS2 HS4 CD CDS CDSE

Pete

 

2 hours ago, DanMi said:

the original way to set the timing, as the front pulley only has a top dead centre mark (assuming it is like an early 4 cyl), was to fully retard the vernier then set the timing static to TDC by turning the distributer and then advance the vernier the required no of clicks, on my mk2 spit 1 click = 1 degree. That gives you a good starting point and by noting the number of clicks you will know what the timing is set to

 

Thanks Guys.  I will try both suggestions tomorrow.  

[DanMi]

Vitesse is slightly different on the vernier (according to the Workshop manual) 1 division = 4 degrees so 2.5 divisions would be the factory setting, then adjust by ear from there

[Gully]

Vernier on the Lucas 22D6 is 4 degrees for a full rotation of the wheel, so 1/4 rotation is 1 degree. Spent ages researching that as my GT6 has an after-market distributor (with Lucas electronic ignition and separate AB14 amplifier)

Gully

[Ian Foster]

On 09/10/2023 at 14:30, Pete Lewis said:

a squirt of lube to free the pin , this applies to Strombergs and SU

Do Strombergs have a lifting pin? I never come across one on (any of) my 175CD2s

The lack of the pin would seem to make it impossible to set the mixture by this method with the filters on.

......but wait a minute, a dummy (possibly Perspex) front plate on my K&Ns with a small hole in it would allow a small screwdriver to be inserted. 'Sounds almost too easy-...Garth in Wayne's World.

Ian

Edited October 13, 2023 by Ian Foster

[Pete Lewis]

as i said later carbs within the era of early emision control and removal of any bits you can easily twiddle will not have lifting pins as you were not supposed to twiddle

[Ian Foster]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

you were not supposed to twiddle

Luckily I do have bottom adjustable jets, so I can!

[daverclasper]

5 hours ago, Gully said:

Vernier on the Lucas 22D6 is 4 degrees for a full rotation of the wheel, so 1/4 rotation is 1 degree. Spent ages researching that as my GT6 has an after-market distributor (with Lucas electronic ignition and separate AB14 amplifier)

With my Vitesse, I seem to get some pinking developing, maybe after 700 miles ( maybe give or take a couple of 100 miles). Dont know why, though around 10 clicks on the vernier to retard it, seems to cure the pinking

[Pete Lewis]

the vernier only adjusts  from whatever base timing setting you have .

its not some magic separate control it just  rotates the points base plate position 

the vac unit advances under cruising throttle positions and isa MPG help of around 4 mpg has no effect on acceleration

the vacuum is generated from a very small hole near the throttle plate  when partially open as in light throttle use 

at full throttle it does nothing .

 

[micmak]

Hi Folks, well, here I am again in a place that I thought was behind me.  I thought I had resolved my fuel mix/ignition timing issues from a few weeks ago.  I parked the car then, and I had not touched it until this afternoon, some 5 or 6 weeks later.  The car started fine, but it seemed to need a lot of choke in order to stay running.  I drove off and gradually eased off the chock, as you do, and continued to drive.  When the temp gauge reached the half way area, I pushed in the choke completely.  The car didn’t like that, and it started to feel “lumpy”!   I decided that all was not well, so I figured it might be prudent to return home.   I pulled over the side of the road to make a U-turn, and as soon as I came to a stop, the engine died.  It didn’t want to restart!   I gave it some choke and it did eventually start.  But in order to keep it idling, I had to keep the choke out and the engine running really high.  I headed for home.  On the way, I slowly and gradually pushed the choke in.  Again, the car didn’t like it.  While driving along, I put my foot on the clutch and the engine died immediately.  I released the clutch to re-engage the engine and it came back to life, but felt terrible with no choke.   It died two more times when I was turning corners and had my foot off the throttle.  The only way to get it started again was with almost full choke. I finally got home, and there was no way the car would idle without a lot of choke and with the idle really high.  I played around with the idle and brought it up to the point where I could push the choke off.  It idled, but not very smoothly.  I suspect some sort of fuel starvation issue, otherwise why would it demand so much choke?  There was no overflowing at the carbs or anything unusual looking.   So, my question to you experienced experts out there is:  What has happened since I last drove the car a few weeks ago?  It wasn't perfect back then, but it was better than today. What has changed?  And how has anything changed at all?  And finally, what should my next step be?
I never did establish if the timing was correct before I adjusted by ear a few weeks ago.  I suppose that should be my next step, and then consider the fuel adjustments.  But I am open to any ideas or suggestions.
Thanks.
.....Mick.....

[Iain T]

Mick, I have mentioned a few times that I think your mixture is too lean. Enrich the mixture by half a turn, it may need more, and try again. Don't go crazy or it can get too rich. This is classic lean mixture symptoms. 

Iain 

[Pete Lewis]

as she ran fine a while ago it wont be anything to do with is the timing correct or have the mixtures and idle setting changed    all complete bum steers t,hey dont change by themselves 

this will be more like the dreaded rubber slivers or some other fuel supply to the carbs 

i would check the back of the float needle valves 

using the choke is just enriching things as  the starter valve picks up direct from the float chamber

thats with CDS with one choke starter on the front carb 

if they are the older thames barrier design thats not the same they just raise the needle and block the throat .

do check the diaphragms are ok , correctly locate the lugs on refit .

 

 

 

 

[micmak]

Thanks, Iain and Pete.  I hope to have the opportunity to take a look again tomorrow.

 

.....Mick.....