RFC007 Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Hello I am new to the forum and currently looking to buy a Spitfire. I was originally looking for a mk IV 1500 for the higher power and torque but have seen a really nice example of a mk IV 1300 at a reasonable price It has single carb with an FH ....HE engine. I have read the pros and cons of each engine but am looking for any reassurance anyone has to go for the 1300. Any help or advice would be much appreciated Thanks Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjit Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 To be honest there isn't that much between the engines. Certainly we're not talking the difference between one that tops out at 60MPH and one that will give a modern GTi a run for its money! If it was me I'd buy based on the condition of the body, as you could buy a 1500 engine and gearbox and swap them for a hell of a lot less than it would cost to replace a few rusty panels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 I would have thought the single carb a bit restrictive as the 1300 has a reputation for liking revs and of course thats where twin carbs are beneficial. Was it a standard UK fitment in the Spitfire? Of course as Mjit says body condition most important as carbs can be easily changed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC007 Posted January 8 Author Report Share Posted January 8 Thanks for your help and advice. The current owner is not too sure on the carburettor history. Is it unusual to have single carb on the 1300? I think I read the USA market may of had single fitted as standard. Would you recommend spending out for 1500 upgrade? The 1300 engine in there now appears to have had quite a bit of recent refurbishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC007 Posted January 8 Author Report Share Posted January 8 Perhaps a twin carb upgrade would be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Yes, the single carb isn't original. Either someone was looking for an "Economy Spitfire" or it's had an engine swap from a single carb 1300 saloon. As for 1300 vs 1500. If you like revs and working the gearbox, go for the 1300 and you'll be rewarded with a great engine. If you like torque and letting the engine work instead of the box, the 1500's for you. Me? I'm a 1500 person. Cheers, Richard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlubikey Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, RFC007 said: Perhaps a twin carb upgrade would be better? Trouble is, you don't know what's in the engine - cam, valves, etc. What's the engine number? You can find lists of the prefixes and this will suggest where the engine started life. Still doesn't tell you what a re-builder fitted! Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC007 Posted January 8 Author Report Share Posted January 8 I set out for a 1500 as well but it was just this one looked a good deal. Engine is FH..4940HE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Yes FH is the correct engine number for the car but who knows whats inside. Presumably its got a 1.5" Stromberg carb in place of the usual two 1.25" SU... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Worth a test drive and the carb mod could be a negotiating point.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 A search of the board should find details of John Thomason's experiments with varilous Spitfire carb set-ups a good few years back. Will be in the Courier archive but I haven't the date to hand. Albeit Herald engines but John Kipping always used a single ? 1 3/4" on a Toledo 'log' manifold with Mk 3 Spit cam C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 The engine should look something like this If it looks like this, then its an American style installation that used a single Stromberg instead of twin SU carbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 (edited) Having had an FH 1300 engine in my Herald for a few years and now a 1500 I will offer my thoughts. The car I have came with the FH engine when I got it. It was history unknown so I just changed the oil, got it running and used it. I have to say I also fitted a single rail Overdrive box and a 3:63 diff at the same time, also twin HS4 SU carbs and a tubular exhaust manifold. It was a great drive through the range and I did the 2014 Round Britain run in it where it got a ragging for 48 hours non stop and never missed a beat. I am a tinkerer so I decided to build a tuned 1500 which is now in the car and produced 92 BHP when run on the rollers compared to the 1300 probably around 65. The 1500 is not known for high revs but is more torquey than the 1300. I am happy with mine as a 1500 but unless you want to spend £££ on yours I would just enjoy and think about performance upgrades in the future. Steve Edited January 8 by Steve P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 The 1300 engine will outlast a 1500 unless you have the crank nitrided. I had two 1500 saloons and they both destroyed big ends around 20,000 miles. Many owners are really happy with the 1147cc engine in a Spit. Extending the stroke and increasing the journal diameter raised the surface speed of the bearings to an extreme. Strangely, the 2.5 litre six with the same bore and stroke as the 1500 will last much longer. Probably due to a six being beter balanced than a four. Of course, you could fit a non Triumph engine and five speed box. (I'll get my tin hat). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 My 1500 is Nitrided and properly balanced with decent bearings so i`m hoping for more than 20k out of it. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Interestingly, My recently purchased 13/60, ("Plum" for those who remember Jeff), has a 1300 ex Spitfire singe carb engine and the o/d box. Obviously I have no means of comparing with O/E, short of swapping engines, which `aint going to happen, but it seems lively enough to drive. My veiw is the O/D makes a difference though?. Another thought?, Chasing speed and power in "elderly" cars, will only add unwanted stress to already tired parts further down/up the drive chain. Years back, swapping engines, upgrading braking sytems et-al was meat and two veg with an end use (Stage Rallying). Now a quiet Sunday drive with the hood down and a Lunch at the end of it is a more attractive option.😁 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, PeteH said: My veiw is the O/D makes a difference though?. More relaxing for the engine & driver I gather. At my age relaxing is becoming a major 'activity' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, PeteH said: Interestingly, My recently purchased 13/60, ("Plum" for those who remember Jeff), has a 1300 ex Spitfire singe carb engine and the o/d box. Obviously I have no means of comparing with O/E, short of swapping engines, which `aint going to happen, but it seems lively enough to drive. My veiw is the O/D makes a difference though?. Another thought?, Chasing speed and power in "elderly" cars, will only add unwanted stress to already tired parts further down/up the drive chain. Years back, swapping engines, upgrading braking sytems et-al was meat and two veg with an end use (Stage Rallying). Now a quiet Sunday drive with the hood down and a Lunch at the end of it is a more attractive option.😁 Pete We are getting old and sedate, Pete... you and me! I find the 1300 engine excellent in the Herald, definitely peppier than the 1200, but long gone are the days when the rest of the club members complained that the GT6 drivers left them all behind on runs. Now as a predominantly Herald driver I prefer the quiet stability of 45mph or so, if even that. I did fit O/D to the Herald but it really only helps at higher speed, dual carriageway driving for example, where the revs drop nicely. I find that it struggles in anything slower. O/D third is good for towns, but the real benefit is at cruising speeds. One thing I've always found - you buy a Triumph from a long-term owner and in the first month or so, things break. It's just not used to a fresh driving style, or higher speeds or mileages, and this definitely seeks out weaknesses. I used to collect Triumphs from the mainland, as far down as Southend-on-Sea, and drive all the way to Stranraer in one go... that definitely highlighted any issues. Thankfully none of them calved before I got them home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjit Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 21 hours ago, RFC007 said: Perhaps a twin carb upgrade would be better? Buy a car based on body condition, then tinker to your hearts content. Regardless how much tinkering you do it's unlikely to cost you more than buying a 1500 that needs any body work doing. Oh, and if you want an engine that revs AND has torque - swap to mappable electronic ignition. After driving my car one of the Triumph specialists asked me if I'd swapped to a 1500 engine following the swap from dizzy to MegaJolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 Quote details of John Thomason's experiments with varilous Spitfire carb set-ups For those interested: https://www.tssc.org.uk/tssc/uploaded_files/216 - June 1998.pdf page 8 and https://www.tssc.org.uk/tssc/uploaded_files/221 - November 1998.pdf page 22 C, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 If the engine number is fh4940HE that suggests it is an early MK4 engine up to FH25000HE, thus it SHOULD have the MK3 cam in it (but who knows) so slightly more power than the later but should have twin SUs (easy upgrade). I personally prefer the smaller capacity revvy engine but hen mine is 1147cc. Buy on condition, neither will beat even a bottom end modern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagger Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 When I had my 1600/6, another day release guy at Brighton Poly had a 12/50 convertible. It was a very close match from the lights at take off. He had about 70bhp, same as my Vitesse with Solex carbs, but was lighter. My 2.5 is about 110 bhp. Actually less than my brother's Mitsubishi Colt which is 1200cc. My only advantage is that I can do 18mph in 4th. I know some have put Mazda MX5's and Fords into Heralds in order to have five speeds and 'Modern' fuel injection. It is a matter of choice. I like cars that are simple so will stick to what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 21 hours ago, DanMi said: Buy on condition, neither will beat even a bottom end modern Don't try. That's for the common folk in their VW Boras and Seats. We are well above that. Just give them a superior down-the-nose look at traffic lights, or else raise the eyebrows and ask incredulously and disgustedly: "You expect me to race THAT?" It's all about class, not speed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC007 Posted January 11 Author Report Share Posted January 11 Thank you very much for all your help and advice. I have viewed and bought the car. Unfortunately the advert was incorrect as it stated single carb when in fact it does have twin. I am sure I will be a regular on here now trying to learn from everyone's experience :). It does need some minor rust repairs. The paint code shows as emeral green 65 but the seller bought some 65 which is a different shade so I will have to try and get some matched paint. The first jobs are the passenger door glass needs replacing and the hood, both supplied by the seller but need fitting. Just obtaining transport quotes now. Thanks again everyone! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFC007 Posted January 11 Author Report Share Posted January 11 On 09/01/2024 at 14:08, DanMi said: If the engine number is fh4940HE that suggests it is an early MK4 engine up to FH25000HE, thus it SHOULD have the MK3 cam in it (but who knows) so slightly more power than the later but should have twin SUs (easy upgrade). I personally prefer the smaller capacity revvy engine but hen mine is 1147cc. Buy on condition, neither will beat even a bottom end modern Hello it is 1972 so is quite an early model I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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