Anglefire Posted March 1, 2019 Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 Following my run out last weekend and its continued oil drinking problem, I carried out a compression test and that suggest that that is generally ok and that I did see some smoke from the exhaust when pulling away a couple of times and after a period of idling which seems to suggest valve guides. So I've whipped off the head and taken it to a local engineering shop (One that was used by Car SOS to rebuild a Mini) for them to rebuild it and unlead it. I've also asked them to skim 0.5mm off it to to get the compression ratio up a little (That should give a CR of about 9.3) He does think its probably more likely to be rings than guides - but is going to let me know what he thinks when he gets the guides out. It should be done by the end of next week. However, I think I've also decided to drop the sump regardless and take the pistons out anyway and replace the rings and mains bearing and obviously hone the bores. I've had a look at them and you can see some small marks (though I don't think they are bad) and also some of the original (I assume) honing marks. I'm also going to drop the oil pump out and see if that is one reason why the pressure is lower than I'd like. I'm going to check the clearances based on this https://tr6.danielsonfamily.org/OilPump.htm I've also bought a new "Pipe under manifold" 212935 and olive etc because mine doesn't have the tab at the end to bolt it to the manifold bolt. Its niggled for ages and whilst the water is out, makes some sense. I might be mad, but it keeps me out of trouble. 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 2, 2019 Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 check the pipe adaptor into the pump has a clear hole , , seen these witha solid build up. pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2019 I Bought a new one of those as well as well. (101343) The pump casting is a little rusty - but looks clear enough. Not doing anything today - though I might drop the oil later because I've started to take up the patio and found the manhole (that I knew was hidden under the slabs) has been moved to avoid the step and three sides of bricks removed to lower it........ So I'm replacing the bricks and relocating it back to where it should be. And its an imperial hole, so am re-using the manhole and cover - just going to paint it with some buzzweld cio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 3, 2019 Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 Unless you have one of the external rocker feed pipes you’ll never loose very much oil down the guides - because there isn’t that much oil up there. Quite possible for an oil burning engine to return good compression figures as different rings are involved. in fact I wonder if the real oil swillers don’t give the best compression figures due to every test being a “wet” one. Certainly seemed to be the case on my old PI engine which had great compressions but drank oil like a rabbit hole. If you are going that far into the engine, much better to take it right out and do it properly. Very difficult to get all the honing shrapnel out and if you’ve got oil pressure/bearing problems there is a fair chance the crank journals are ovalled and it needs grinding. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2019 Hi Nick - no I don't have the external feed. I know what you are saying - but I will drop the sump and have a look before making a final decision. The pump will be a focus too as reading lots of different things, even a new pump can be out of tolerance and whilst I thought I checked it before I put it back in, I can't be 100% sure! I did look at the crank and there were no marks on it and I'm pretty sure I did a random dimension check and it seemed to be all well. I've just looked at the pump that I took out (I kept it for some strange reason!) and its scored and the rotor tips are marked too. It will be interesting to compare it to the one in the car. But if blueprinting it gets me 10psi I'll be happy enough. I'm only really worrying about the pressure because I have a gauge fitted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 Sump came off today, pump out and the 4 pistons. Measured the bores top and bottom and are very similar. A measurable difference but only a couple of thou. The “ridge” at the top is very slight and didn’t cause any issues when the pistons came out. Didn’t feel any sort of extra drag. The rings don’t look bad as far as I can see. The oil ones seem reasonably “tight” in the slots. As it happens on eBay I spotted a set of NOS hepolite pistons complete with rings and pins for £100. So I’ve got them coming next week. I’m also going to fit some new big end bearings - some tri-metal ones. The ones that are in are not in bad nick but are only standard ones. unless there is a good reason I’m not changing the little end bearings as I don’t have a reamer. And opinion seems to be that they don’t really wear. Obviously I’ll look when I take the pins out to fit the new pistons. I’ve not yet taken the pump apart to inspect it yet. A job for another day! Oh and one last thing the pump that came out has a lot of thread showing where the locking ring is - the one I’ve just taken out is screwed right in. I will look to see if it’s just one of those things. I will also do some measurements to see how deep into the sump it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 The old trick for gudgeon pins is put piston in a bucket of very hot water, of they use circlips do make really sire they are fully located Or you,can make nice grooves in the bore if one pops out Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 There are circlips on the 1500. As it happens I had a vw 1200 beetle that I found the mangled remains of a circlip in the sump. So I dropped the engine (about a 1/2 hour job) and took the heads off and found the fault. One of the bores was scored very badly - wasn’t using oil though. But the beetle has loose cylinders so I just got a new set and possibly pistons etc and replaced it. Very simple and I’m pretty sure pretty cheap - given I was a student at the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 Thats two Tee shirts , had this with my Minx in 64, i wrecked a crazy side valve never the same after a replacement . Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 Had a quick look at the oil pump this evening. The oil pickup is about 3/4 shorter than the old pump - so I’ve adjusted that. Is that the right thing to do? I’m not sure it makes a significant difference? And whilst I know the angle headed pump is the better one, is the angled head the better option? Or is the straight one “better” ? I then measured the clearance between the centre rotating “star” element of the pump and the outer flange of the pump - and it’s 6thou. 😳. 4thou is I understand the limit and 3 probably better. I have read 1thou is even better - but that seems to me to be too tight taking into account thermal expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 Looks like the angled one is supposed to give improved 'oil pick up performance' and the suction pipe certainly looks longer than the older type. There has been reports of replacement pumps having poor clearances from new and yours does sound a bit on the big side (how are the other two measurements?) but dont forget the pressure relief valve is supposed to open at 45 - 55psi. In fact the PRV is something else to check as it could be stuck open or its spring weakened..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 Thanks Johny - having it more towards the centre makes sense (For some reason, I thought it was more towards the back - and I can't even remember what it was like when I took it off- and it was only Sunday!) My new pistons arrived today - look brand new - well they are so, that's handy then! @Pete mentions using a bucket of water to get them out- the instructions say hot oil...... I was expecting them to be "loose" as they have circlips , but they are tight! I can't say I fancy heating oil up and it will ruin the chip pan, so will water be ok? Obviously removing the water afterwards - bearing mind the rings are already fitted. Obviously the old pistons need to come off too.... Is that the same way? And then fitting the rods to the pins and pistons? Freeze the pin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Bucket of boiling /hot water should be fine if concerned a squirt of wd40 afterwards to dispell. But being hot soon dries off If pins are circliped then they are surely floating easy fit in the rod??? Dont like the idea of hot oil, nasty stuff makes the marigolds slippy Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Oil isn't necessary; probably a relic of the days before WD40! Since you will be dunking a succession of freezing cold (in this weather) metal in your bucket, the water will soon cool down. I use a camp stove, with an old pan, deep enough to drown the piston, that the stove keeps boiling hot. Take out the circlips first, if you have a vice with soft jaws get that ready to hold the conrod, and a suitbably sized stick to push out the gudgeon pin. A length of wood dowel is ideal. And a glove or cloth pad to catch the pin, which will be boiling hot! "Re-asembly is the reverse of the dismantling procedure"! If piston and con rod are hot, then a cold pin is only an advantage. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpingFrog Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Anglefire said: having it more towards the centre makes sense (For some reason, I thought it was more towards the back - and I can't even remember what it was like when I took it off- and it was only Sunday!) The pickup does go to the back. Allegedly this change was done to prevent starvation when climbing. However, there have been reports that it can cause starvation under hard barking (track use) or descending, instead. If you were serious about this though you'd probably baffle the sump as well, I doubt it'd ever be a problem on the road unless your oil level was already dangerously low. Here's a picture of the angled pump fitted to a block: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky_Spit Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Hi Anglefire - Are you sure that the pins are in there "tight" tight? Not just a bit stuck from sitting on the shelf for a few years? I ask as I put new Hepolite pistons in my 1500 and the pins were just a push fit with circlips, but needed a bit of a tap initially to get them out of the loosely assembled pistons in the first place. No heat needed. They'd been stored in greased paper for quite a while I reckon, but cleaned up perfectly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 I now have this image ....i can see John cooking , Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 Thanks all - I picked up my head today - new hardened seats and apparently the old ones were showing signs of regression. Valves have been ground with the 3 angles on too. If anyone is interested, I used Bromsgrove Engine Services https://bromsgroveengineservices.com/ based on what I have seen, I would recommend them - and Car SOS have used them too. They do have a GT6 engine in at the moment as well as a Aston Martin... David, that picture is very handy - though I'm sure it was like that before (I would hope the spacing of the 3 bolts is not even!), my memory must have been skewed by the picture here https://tr6.danielsonfamily.org/OilPump.htm - which I do realise is a TR6 and not a spitfire! John, That makes sense. Must find an old pan - I'm sure that I have one in the loft. PB1 (Name? 😃 ) I doubt they are tight tight - speaking to the chap at Bromsgrove, he said they just use hot water - even a kettle poured over the piston may well allow them to drop out. He suspects its just that they are NOS so have been on the shelf and the stuff they put on to protect them just makes them stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Anglefire said: he said they just use hot water - even a kettle poured over the piston may well allow them to drop out. He suspects its just that they are NOS so have been on the shelf and the stuff they put on to protect them just makes them stick. This. Even leaving them on a radiator (heating on!) or in the sun on a warm day is usually enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 Poured a kettle of hot water over the pistons (one at a time!) and the pins just slid out. Actually it was 11cups worth of water! 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted March 15, 2019 Report Share Posted March 15, 2019 I hope you made a cup of tea with the water after Mark? All add's to the taste.......... Tony. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Got the pistons back in last night. Mains all torqued up. I had to buy another set of circlip pliers - as my 30+ year old set were external only. Ordered late (about 10pm) friday night, arrived saturday morning - £10 for a pair of straight internal, straight external and straight and bent internal. Did the job. My ring compressor worked - though with the recess on the head, I didn't get it quite flush on the last piston and the ring slipped out underneath so had to pull the piston out and try again. Got to get the head back on now and all torqued up, the new heater pipe from the pump to the back of the engine, the oil pump sorted and the sump back on. Fill with fluids and hope it starts! Unfortunately that won't be today as I'm going to the Photo show at the NEC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 A/F. Have a good day at the NEC. This will be the first year I've missed it for years. It was either that or the PC show next week. The PC show won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglefire Posted March 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 I am only going because I got reduced price tickets. There is a high risk of not being here that long. Depends what I see and who I meet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppy916 Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 I used a new oil pump from Chris Witor (blueprinted) his pump was in better condition than my new one from Rimmer's and the same price 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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