Chris Bracey Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Hi. My spitfire 1 500 seems heavy at low speed and much heavier than my midget that uses similar sized wheel. Its a long time since i had a spitfire so i am wondering if it could be dried up trunnions. I intend to jack it up and test but if the trunnions have been greased as opposed to oiled could i get away with grease until winter when i can clean them out. PS. I know my tr4a was heavy at lowspeed but i can't recall tne spit being the same. Btw i have just bought it back and had purchased it new in 1979 so hence all the questions i keep asking on the forum. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Hi Chris, I would have thought a Spitfire would have been a little lighter than a TR4A. My 4A is pretty good at any speed. Areas that affect the steering feel - tyre width, pressure, type. Camber and toe in. Steering rack - internal seizure etc TRack Rod Ends - not common but if seized will increase the weight. Dried out/ badly worn TRunion - grease works well. but if you prefer oil then go for it. Inspect the vertical link for corrosion near the thread run-out - will not make the steering heavy but the wheel could drop off. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 If your trunnions are full of dry grease then I suspect being fairly determined with an EP90 gun will shift it better than more of the wrong stuff, but as you say, dismantling and cleaning out is the long-term solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 I would try to force some ep90 in through the nipple. Until fresh oil drips our the top of the trunnion. Turn the steering a lot, have another go with the oil. Drive for a week or 2 ( IE get plenty of miles on it) and see how the steering feels? In the past I have had a seized trunnion. It was still on the wheel, but once off the car I could not get it off the VL. Used s grinder in the end, and once inspected scrapped the upright.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 modern tyres need or work better with somewhat higher pressures than whats in the handbook bit of trial and error to get the right feel without making it a hard ride what size steering wheel is fitted , a smaller than std hand wheel will up the effort a lot ....size matters !!! the trunion is designed as a oil bath and reservoir and it should not have any grease anywhere near it (unless its very fluid sloppy and runny) none are recommended Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, RogerH said: Dried out/ badly worn TRunion - grease works well. but if you prefer oil then go for it. Oh dear! Here we go! The trunnion is bronze, the vertical link steel. Grease works well on steel, but not bronze. An EP90 oil bath is what is specified. What tyre pressures are you using? Underinflated makes steering very heavy. Lots of threads on here about what is the right pressure. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 snap !!!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Ha!! Beaten to the punch, you're fingers are faster than my arthritic set. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 we.re off what next ??? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 The usual discussion about EP90 vs grease.. what else!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Back in 1959 Dennis Barbet Standard's development engineer had investigated why trunnions were wearing out and found it was due to the grease being forced out of the threads when under pressure. He recommended the use of EP90 as it was not forced out under pressure. As far as I know Standard Triumph (ST) recommended the use of EP90 in trunnions from around that date. ST has always said that Herald based cars should use EP90 oil in their trunnions. Dennis did an article in the Courier a number of years ago covering the above which cleared up the confusion. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Additionally the grease in olden times was water based and if not replaced at service turned to powdery grit. NOT good for steel or bronze. Modern grease is not water based and OK for steel, but NOT bronze! db 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 ...and the biggest confusion was that the oil was introduced into the trunnions via... a grease nipple. Therefore many owners used the same grease gun on bearings and upper ball joints, and gave the trunnions a few squirts for good measure too, since it was another nipple visible on the car and they thought it was correct maintenance. Perhaps we need a sticker on each trunnion, similar to the ones on fuel filler caps, reminding owners of the correct stuff to put in? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 We should all take a great deal more interest in nipples. Pete's "other" site has lots of instructive information. db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 hours ago, dougbgt6 said: Oh dear! Here we go! The trunnion is bronze, the vertical link steel. Grease works well on steel, but not bronze. An EP90 oil bath is what is specified. Doug Hi Doug, Here we go !! not at all. The poster asked a question and I took the trouble to answer it fairly well. The theory of oil getting where it is needed is valid. However grease does migrate - but slower. Old greases were so so - modern greases work well. I do grease my trunions and I have not had a worn out trunion. The first ones lasted 210,000 miles before I changed them when after a wishbone bracket failure. Renewed the front end after that. the new ones have done 50,000+ miles with no wear. heavens knows how long EP90 would make the little devils last. Shortly after updating the trunion lubrication they started to specify EP90 in the gearbox & OD. Yet we all know that SAE40 gearbox oil works very well. There are many anomalies on our cars, just accept them. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 52 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said: We should all take a great deal more interest in nipples. I think we should. Seriously! So: Is there such a thing as an oil nipple, and does it differ in appearance from a grease nipple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitFire6 Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Hi, remove a shim from the four lower wishbone brackets and steering will be lighter. Cheers, Iain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, dougbgt6 said: Additionally the grease in olden times was water based and if not replaced at service turned to powdery grit. NOT good for steel or bronze. Modern grease is not water based and OK for steel, but NOT bronze! db In industry the closest analogy to trunnions Ive come across are the very common bronze drive nuts used to operated the threaded steel shafts of rising stem valves. With these grease lubrication has always been used quite successfully although its not ideal as it has to be wiped off and replaced regularly because of dirt contamination. Of course it would be impossible to use any type of oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 from the other site you can see nipples have a wide range of angles and diameters strangley these are all notes as oil nipples not grease nipples then if you search grease nipples you get exactly the same selection pert nipples always get my vote oil or grease just makes things slippery Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Well, if they're not sticking out you can't get a grip on them. The grease gun will just slide off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bracey Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Thank you every one i will buy a new grease gun that i can use with oil. Btw my tyres are standard size so whats the concensus on tyre pressures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badwolf Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Chris - Before you buy a new grease/oil gun search for Wanner throughout the forum or even pumpinator (don't ask, just search!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 I used to use a grease gun with oil but found it very messy so have gone over to a syringe like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150ml-Large-Big-Plastic-Hydroponics-Nutrient-Disposable-Measuring-Syringe/372702708217?hash=item56c6d001f9:g:r64AAOSwE~pdHG4N A lot cheaper and cleaner as I just free off the nipple sealing ball and squirt in oil using a flexible plastic tube pushed on to it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Back to heavy,,,what diameter steering wheel have you got???? Std or aftermarket smaller ???? Pressures with a modern tyre add around 4 to 6 psi more than the book , Club shop sell oil guns but pricey, a wanner off a auto jumble sub £10 Places like machine mart have a wide selection price/quality worth looking. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 What’s the standard tyre pressure ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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