The embarrassing Herald restoration thread - now the fiddly bits

[Colin Lindsay]

3 hours ago, Jon J 1250 said:

Hi Colin,

James Paddock have them, still not cheap but for those of us with Delaney Galllay heaters it my just be prudent to get a spare whilst they are available.

https://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/heater-valve-delaney-galley560612

Regards

Jon

I'll just keep an eye out online, last one I bought was about £18 and I snapped it up; one of those 'I've got this Ranco valve and don't know what it fits' sort of listings. At one stage I had half a dozen of them but time has whittled them right down to zero spare. Time to experiment with modern replacements, if I could find one where both hoses are on the same side, but I have all manner of curved hoses that can be adapted.

I'll have to check EP Services; I had two water pumps refurbished and this one was still sealed in a plastic bag on the shelf as a backup, but it lasted less than 20 miles before leaking again and by the end of our 100 mile run yesterday was like a waterfall. I can't believe that a good seal would deteriorate so much in that space of time, both just from storage of a few years and then a short period of use.

I also checked the radiator cap, which a member reckoned was the wrong size and thereby not sealing the radiator, but allowing water through the expansion tube all the time; I don't think this was correct, as the cap required pressure against the spring to seal and you could feel the resistance. One thing I did notice was that the sealing rubber around the underside of the cap was very thin. I removed one from an old cap, twice the thickness, and this may seal any unevenness around the filler neck that might have allowed water to escape. I can't see this being a  major problem as once the cap opens the water escapes down the expansion pipe anyway, but shouldn't otherwise, as the sprung seal is tight to the neck.

So: a replacement GWP200 waterpump required. Probably all made in the same place these days anyway, regardless of brand or price. If I go NOS Unipart they're probably done through years of storage by now...

[Badwolf]

I think my replacement water pump came from a fleabay supplier. Really fast delivery. UK based. Might have been one of the Mini spares suppliers but not sure..4 years ago!! Still got the old one. Though about getting it refurbed but probably too late now and rusted solid. 

[Colin Lindsay]

On 25/09/2022 at 19:25, Badwolf said:

I think my replacement water pump came from a fleabay supplier. Really fast delivery. UK based. Might have been one of the Mini spares suppliers but not sure..4 years ago!! Still got the old one. Though about getting it refurbed but probably too late now and rusted solid. 

Technically that shouldn't matter. The body and shaft will be cleaned up, new bearings and seals fitted. Mine were fairly grim when sent off but came back looking like new, sealed in plastic bags. 

I've just bought from MevSpares (Jumblemaster on eBay) one of my favourite sellers. Fast delivery and no complaints from me over quite a few years now. It's just one of the modern replacement pumps (County) but no alternative. As I mentioned earlier I've also replaced the rad cap seal - must check if there's a modern alternative or at least thicker to the almost non-existent condom-rubber items supplied these days. 

Biggest problem is getting the old seal off. This is the second pump that has failed in a month, and yes I did check the fan belt thinking it might be too tight but in effect it's almost too loose. When the old one was removed , and I had replaced IT back around February when rebuilding the engine I also replaced the gasket. The gasket was now part of the metal work and literally had to be sanded off and the entire system flushed out. This time I also used some sealer so I'll find out later today if this has made things easier, or more difficult.

 

[PeteH]

One of the "old fashioned" methods with Gaskets was to smear a mixture of Oil and Graphite on both sides. Ocasionally the old "tricks" work?. It was mainly used on steam, but I had no problem getting water to seal too.

Pete

[Peter Truman]

Not pumps so much but the thermostat covers the gasket is a composite paper type thing and sometimes acts as a wick allowing the antifreeze to impregnate through with green droplets on the outer edge, always worried me re corrosion of the hold down bolts/studs

My solution is to smear both gasket faces with Permatex Aviation gasket seal, I put some on both faces then with a pair of rubber gloves hold the gasket between my thumb and forefinger and rotate the gasket to spread and remove surplus goo, gasket doesn't stick to the mating surfaces and seals well, with no wicking of the coolant thro the gasket. As a belt & braces I use copper grease on the studs and bolts!

Love the smell of the Permatex BUT hate how its soo messy! I use this method on the pump housing too.

[Colin Lindsay]

Just repaired another component to destruction; took off the dynamo which was making a few noises - just to check - found the fan was a bit bent in places so removed it to straighten it out. It needs an impact wrench to remove, being stuck fast from many years use, but not to replace again. That last 1/8 inch sure is a doozy, or so that last little pull on the trigger discovered. Looks to be a large thread, so none of my dies suit. I'll probably go alternator later in the year but in the meantime it's the simple option, to get everything else working...

[NonMember]

My local garage chap has one of those local spot grit blaster things. Before tackling a nut that hasn't been undone in decades, he gives the end of the thread a good clean up with it, so that when the nut is removed there's no build up of rust to cause that sort of damage. That's the theory - I've not tried it myself.

[Colin Lindsay]

2 hours ago, NonMember said:

My local garage chap has one of those local spot grit blaster things. Before tackling a nut that hasn't been undone in decades, he gives the end of the thread a good clean up with it, so that when the nut is removed there's no build up of rust to cause that sort of damage. That's the theory - I've not tried it myself.

Problem is, it came off relatively easily; it was me replacing it with the impact wrench - probably totally unnecessarily, but very lazily and without thinking - that stripped the threads.

[johny]

3 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Just repaired another component to destruction; took off the dynamo which was making a few noises - just to check - found the fan was a bit bent in places so removed it to straighten it out. It needs an impact wrench to remove, being stuck fast from many years use, but not to replace again. That last 1/8 inch sure is a doozy, or so that last little pull on the trigger discovered. Looks to be a large thread, so none of my dies suit. I'll probably go alternator later in the year but in the meantime it's the simple option, to get everything else working...

Ha, I did exact same thing but by bashing it - cant believe how soft it is! I was going to file it down and            redo in metric but in the end managed to restore the existing thread as its not got to be done up very tight...

[Pete Lewis]

believe me    there are a lot of tee shirts about for wonky dynamo threads  / half a nut/ hammered/ stripped and much more 

Pete

 

 

[johny]

Even so I do love em as theyre proper engineering and you can whack in new bearings/bushes/brushes and they just keep going after 60+ years.

Pity they didnt make the casing out of aluminium though instead of using left over WW2 howitzer barrel😞

[Colin Lindsay]

Just been out in the garage for a bit, come back in black as yer boot due to all the black sooty stuff inside dynamos.

I wouldn't mind if they were all the same, but they're not. I have five useable and one rusty heap, all different pulleys, all different fans, not one is interchangeable with the others, but I'm sandblasting various bits and hoping. The C40L is too long, the C40A has a different pulley from the others so it sits out of line with the waterpump, and the one potential replacement (dead centre  in photo) has a flared body same as the one that I damaged (bottom) and is marked 25W, but the bolts are seized solid so I can't get the end off to replace the worn brushes. It's also slightly shorter so will require spacers. If I can split the potential replacement I can overhaul it, so that's this evening's work. On the other remaining unit, the one facing away from the camera, the collar seems to have dropped down inside the body, so the fan rotates uselessly around as it spins with nothing to grip it. That's a pity as it's in good nick otherwise.

 

[Badwolf]

Colin - can't help but notice that none of the puzzles in your paper have even been started? Lady BW would have been all over them like a rash! No, don't bother sending them on!!

[Colin Lindsay]

I have enough puzzles in the garage, thank you!! 

Anyway got the dynamo apart, had to use an impact driver screwdriver bit in the impact wrench but it worked. All clean now, waiting on paint drying and the new brushes arriving in the post. 

[Chris A]

4 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

wouldn't mind if they were all the same, but they're not. I have five useable and one rusty heap, all different pulleys, all different fans, not one is interchangeable with the others,

Variety is the spice of life. So they say.

[Colin Lindsay]

34 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Variety is the spice of life. So they say.

I'm not making electric soup, you know. 

[NonMember]

11 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

I'm not making electric soup, you know. 

What about spaghetti?

[Colin Lindsay]

59 minutes ago, NonMember said:

What about spaghetti?

Never touched the loom. Honest. That was a PO. 

[Gully]

Interesting asbestos warning label on one of those - presumably insulating components?

Gully

[Colin Lindsay]

Well, there's been some unexpected movement... unexpected as I'd already tried, and failed... then tried again and appear to have succeeded. Time will tell!

I've no idea what thread the dynamo uses; I tried one of my UNF taps and it was a complete non-starter. Best way to find out is to reverse-engineer, so I went in search of the nut. It's an 11/16, used in Landrovers (part number 240271) or the original Lucas part number (198800) but nowhere does it give the actual spec. The shaft itself is 7/16" wide.

Rummaging through a drawer I found a good condition 7/16 tap - UNF, 20 tpi, so tried that and to my amazement the three spare nuts I have all threaded on easily and spun right to the end, no resistance at all. Back to the taps again... tried my 7/16 UNF again (no idea of the tpi) and after some slight resistance, and difficulty in starting on the completely shot threads, it fitted the shaft perfectly. No metal being scoured off and no fresh shiny witness marks on the undamaged threads. If I'm not completely correct, it's not far off. The nut went on and once on the undamaged threads it tightened perfectly.

  

That's the original pulley back on, sandblasted and repainted. The water pump also arrived today, solid state but as good as can be expected, so on it went. The gasket supplied was also reassuringly good quality, much thicker than the last ones I tried, so I decided against sealer. Once water pump and dynamo was fitted I checked the belt tension, but there was a slight angle that I wasn't happy with.

                                                                                       

The belt appears to be angling forwards towards the dynamo, and the dynamo pulley also sits off the fan. Squinting along the setup the pulleys are all in line bar the dynamo, yet this is the original pulley that I just removed. I had a check through the spares and found two or three different designs, and also sizes - 40mm vs 42mm, some with a flat rear face and some tapered.

                                  

I ended up using the uppermost one in the photo, which sits completely flat against the fan; it's rusty and unpainted but does at least pull the fan belt back into line. I'll have to monitor things for the next while to make sure its not strained in the other direction and so doesn't jump off in use. I wasn't able to check the waterpumps themselves, to see if there's any difference in the pulley profile between old and new, but I'll do that as a matter of course. In the meantime I'm happy that the car should run and am hoping that it will be once again leak free. It's costing me a fortune in antifreeze not to mention spring washers everytime the radiator has to come out. 

Getting closer to the winter restoration again - hard to believe it's almost a year since the first MOT of my ownership, and even harder to believe that the first available test anywhere in my area, out of three local MOT stations, is February 23rd. I wish they'd clear that backlog. 

[daverclasper]

On Lucas C40L, as I had no impact wrench, I cross cut the old nut with a hack saw to remove. I just replaced with a standard UNF nut, though can't remember the size.

Seemed to fit fine, and assumed it was ok?. no probs with it since after lots of miles. Not even sure if this is relevant to thread, as this aspect of it, went a bit above my head? 

[Colin Lindsay]

18 hours ago, daverclasper said:

On Lucas C40L, as I had no impact wrench, I cross cut the old nut with a hack saw to remove. I just replaced with a standard UNF nut, though can't remember the size.

Seemed to fit fine, and assumed it was ok?. no probs with it since after lots of miles. Not even sure if this is relevant to thread, as this aspect of it, went a bit above my head? 

Like many things (steering column for one!) you never worry about the actual thread until you need to then no-one knows what it is. I just managed to strip the very end of the threads, so the rest were fine, but couldn't get anything started, either nut or die, to cut the threads without damage or to check what they actually were. As usual I did a lot of internet searching and head scratching BEFORE I went back to the garage and experimented; this was so I didn't make things worse through ignorance, but it actually turned out to be unnecessary as for once it was a straight UNF thread. My Clarke set is 30 years old and strange in that it has a 7/16 die but not the same size of tap, but I had a spare 7/16 tap to test the nuts with, and after that it was all straightforward.

With the steering column, I assumed it was straightforward, which is why I now have a completely unusable column in the spares pile.

[Colin Lindsay]

Well here we are, six weeks further on, and in reality, no further on at all. I mean that positively as for one thing I've been doing more Herald driving than garage work, and what garage work I have been doing has been on a variety of vehicles, mostly modern, but I've actually managed to get back to square one with the Estate. That might not sound like much of an accomplishment, but bear in mind the title of this thread. The 1200 Estate has been started, abandoned, recommenced, set aside, and now recommenced again, but now with an engine rebored and rebuilt, and many things done properly, we're back to the front end now complete. Just as we were about 2012 or so, before the engine required reboring, and then again in 2020 when the head started to leak water and it all came off again.

                         

The bonnet fitted, and gapped, first time, which is why I was so aggrieved about the Vitesse bonnet, which even after weeks of fettling required a bit of manners by way of two large hammers. Front valence and grille also went on first time with no issues. This time it's all staying on.

I've also refitted the rear seat, and the carpets are changing from cheap red to cheap black, and would have been fitted by now if I had bled the clutch. However: once bitten - I'm going to get the engine running, and see how things go, before building in the gearbox tunnel and the seals / soundproofing. This I learned the hard way on the 13/60, when the overdrive solenoid failed very shortly after the rebuild, and so all the seals and soundproofing had to be removed to gain access, and it never goes back the same way a second time. I'll get the engine running and see what leaks, first. I'm a bit distrustful of the gearbox; I replaced seals and bearings, but it still managed to leak oil from the drain plug. I've replaced that, but will only know how it performs once the oil heats up through use.

I've also started work on a replacement rear leaf spring, as the one that was fitted last year was ages old and got a rudimentary restoration only. This is the spring that was removed, and is slightly less rusty. Refurbishment is easily done, provided the shackle bolts don't all snap and replacements take weeks to arrive, assuming I can find replacements.

                       

Once taken apart the leaves are cleaned down with wire wool and petrol to remove old grease and rust. The rubber buttons were all squashed and distorted, so a new set was located online from a UK supplier. These are quite solid and larger, certainly heavier and more dense, than some of the current rubber offerings, and are a good fit.

                                                 

The end bushes proved a real nightmare; as usual, the rubber bits came out easily but the outer metal tube wouldn't move at all. No amount of battering hammering and chiselling would shift them. In the end it took two days of heat alternated with penetrating oil before they shifted, and even then they had to be practically ground out.

                                      

I'm going to replace them with polybushes - never tried those before on a leaf spring - which were part of a kit I bought for the 13/60 last year and have been sitting on the shelf tempting me ever since. Very easy to fit, which makes me wonder how they'll perform on the road. They're also slightly wider than the metal versions and have flared ends, but this means the vertical link won't bend inwards at the top, as they usually do when tightened.

                       

                                                                                          

I was able to get replacement shackle bolts, but they're not the correct profile, and I'm still making enquiries with fastener suppliers to see if bolts with the proper length of shoulder are available. these are too short and the threaded section sits inside the shackle, not the shoulder. I don't know how much this will affect things, if at all, but I always prefer to keep the threads off any metal contact as they're understandably weaker than solid metal. I also found that with the new buttons fitted they couldn't reach the holes, so I had to compress the leaves in a vice to get them to line up. Of course I couldn't find the fourth spacer tube, which has appeared in the photo above and was somewhere else around the garage, but luckily I had spares. All went together again quite easily, so now there's another spare spring awaiting fitting. It will be interesting to see if the new buttons affect the ride height or the performance.

                                  

Other job of the week has been to refurbish a volt meter for the replacement dashboard on the 13/60. Given the price of Smiths' Battery condition gauges, which I'd have preferred (up to £70????) I went for a standard Smiths volt meter, £10 off eBay. The good thing about this one is that the red needle has been bleached almost white by years of use, so no need to repaint to match my other gauges.

                                                                                             

It's looking a little worse for wear in that photo, but that'd because the outer rim is black, and not chrome, so I was trying to clean the paint off. I was quite surprised to find that unlike the gauges I'm used to - being off Triumphs - under the paint isn't chrome, but only metal, and rusty at that. I'm going to have to remove a chrome rim off a 'proper' gauge and replace it with that. I just like them all to look the same!

 

[Colin Lindsay]

Ok so I got bored and went back to finish the job. Nowt on telly these evenings and I've no good books at present. These gauges are very simple; just a bi-metallic strip that heats up and so moves the needle. Two contacts and a few very thin wires inside. I dismantled the gauge and cleaned the insides out with Servisol lubricant.

                                                                                           

I've bench tested that one already and it seems to work fine; another one I have doesn't move at all but is a useful source of spares if required. The bezel was also painted black - it came from an old spitfire fuel gauge - but here it's paint over chrome and cleans off very easily.

                                                                                                               

After that it's just a case of remembering the order the parts came off - rubber gasket, insulator, spade terminal, spring washer and nut. Fit it all back together along with new rubber glass-to-body seal and bingo - a very nice-looking volt meter for the Vitesse. All I need to do now is reveneer the dashboard and they'll all be ready for the swap-over in the New Year.

                                  

 

[daverclasper]

21 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

a very nice-looking volt meter for the Vitesse.

Didn't know you had a Vitesse, or is that what you call the Vit bonneted Herald?

Very nice work on the gauge, love that sort of low cost/more time, resto stuff